Guest JessterCPA Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I'm flummoxed by our current tax code (i.e. looming AMT crisis) You & me both brother! Jesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Splain to me why a "flat tax" or a "fair tax" would "encourage growth in the economy." The "fair tax" is a tax on consumption. Taxing consumption, um, wouldn't that discourage consumption? To quote Lewis Black, "I'm confused". I really hope you will pull out a better explanation than pointing to Eastern Europe as a shining beacon of where the flat tax has caused economic growth. I have no desire to emulate Latvia and Estonia. With a huge segment of our population heading for retirement (boomers), what do you think would happen under a flat-tax? Perhaps a "fair tax" would work better with the aging population, especially if medical services and products were value taxed. I'm sure they'd get a bit grumpy since their income has been taxed all their life and now we'll slap at 23% tax on their viagra and cancer treatments. Enlighten me, I'm an engineer, not an economist. I have more questions than answers. I'm flummoxed by our current tax code (i.e. looming AMT crisis), the national debt load, and political gridlock which seems to have handcuffed us into making any meaningful change. Black is frequently confused as far as I can tell... You don't think you're paying tax now when you make a purchase? The embedded taxes that are already included in the cost would go away, prices could fall by the amount of the tax. Plus with the Fair Tax you may actually get to keep all of the income you earn for your company, FICA, Soc. Sec., withheld income taxes could be paid out to you instead of sent to DC. I won't worry to much about consumption falling. There are other issues to economic growth than just taxation, stable monetary policy, protection of private property rights (neither a hallmark of eastern europe), and overall tax policy (not just income but corporate, etc.). Take a look at Hong Kong's history of the flat tax. Either proposal, IMO should eliminate corporate, estate, capital gain, and dividend income from taxation. The elimination of these would lead to economic growth as funds are invested in business, capital markets, etc. Take out all of the compliance costs that go into making sure an investment is taxed properly and the lawyers trying to figure out the best corporate structure to avoid/lower taxes. The problem of course is any meaningful change actually happening in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I like the last slogan. sig check! I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The problem of course is any meaningful change actually happening in DC. and the fact that people are used to paying these taxes already. what would force any business to lower its price simply because they payed less to produce it? ok, with that, i know absolutely nothing about tax law! nor will i pretend to know. what i do know is the man behind the curtain is a sneeky bastard looking for anyway possible to make the almighty dollar! ok, thats an expression, the dollar is by no means mighty! i digress, it again goes to profit. if a company pays less for something that is established, they do not necessarily have to pass the savings on to you. if they did then there would be no such thing as a sale. my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 and all of a sudden, this is no longer generally funny! quick, someone do a fart joke! my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 and the fact that people are used to paying these taxes already. what would force any business to lower its price simply because they payed less to produce it? ok, with that, i know absolutely nothing about tax law! nor will i pretend to know. what i do know is the man behind the curtain is a sneeky bastard looking for anyway possible to make the almighty dollar! ok, thats an expression, the dollar is by no means mighty! i digress, it again goes to profit. if a company pays less for something that is established, they do not necessarily have to pass the savings on to you. if they did then there would be no such thing as a sale. Competition, free markets "force" lower prices. If profit margins suddently went up by 30%, somebody will lower their price to gain market share. Apparently you're not a greedy bastard and generally work for less than what you are worth and/or works for someone who doesn't like to make a profit and can't afford to pay you. A co-ed goes to see her doctor to get a checkup, the doctor notices a large "P" imprinted on her chest and stomach, he asks how that got there. The co-ed says her boyfriend likes to wear his sweatshirt from Princeton while they are making love. Another co-ed goes to see the same doctor, during the checkup he notices a large "D" imprinted on her torso and asks how it got there. She says that her BF goes to Dartmouth and likes to wear his sweatshirt while they are making love. The doctor sees a third co-ed and notices a large "M" imprinted on her chest and and asks if her BF goes to Michigan... ... She says "my girlfriend goes to Wellseley, why do you ask?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 i like to fart under the covers and pull them over my head and drift off to sleep with the smell. I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 ok, that wasn't funny, that was just plain sick! my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 whats funny is I do it to my fiancee too I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 and the fact that people are used to paying these taxes already. what would force any business to lower its price simply because they payed less to produce it? ok, with that, i know absolutely nothing about tax law! nor will i pretend to know. what i do know is the man behind the curtain is a sneeky bastard looking for anyway possible to make the almighty dollar! ok, thats an expression, the dollar is by no means mighty! i digress, it again goes to profit. if a company pays less for something that is established, they do not necessarily have to pass the savings on to you. if they did then there would be no such thing as a sale. Free markets, competition would "force" lower prices, especially if profit margins just went up by 30%. Don't you or your company look for ways to make the almighty dollar? This isn't about tax law, it's about economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Free markets, competition would "force" lower prices, especially if profit margins just went up by 30%. Don't you or your company look for ways to make the almighty dollar? This isn't about tax law, it's about economics. yes it would, but only if everyone else started to cut their prices as well. and as how well consumers are informed of the cuts in cost. i have a deep seated distrust of people. and large corporations even more. so yes my opinion is also my own and its slightly jaded. i would love to believe this planet is full of upstanding honest business men but it is not. my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 yes it would, but only if everyone else started to cut their prices as well. and as how well consumers are informed of the cuts in cost. i have a deep seated distrust of people. and large corporations even more. so yes my opinion is also my own and its slightly jaded. i would love to believe this planet is full of upstanding honest business men but it is not. You would rather trust the politicians and the K Street lobbyists (who are on the payroll of your less than honest business men) to jerry-rig the tax code every couple of years than to trust business men who you can choose or not choose to frequent. "Jaded" is putting it lightly. Besides, if no one did cut their prices, new entrants would come into the market once they see the excess profits being made by the current firms and drive the prices down. All it takes is for Walmart or Target to demand lower prices from their suppliers so they can pass it on... But I'm sure you don't trust them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 nope, not for quality anyway. but i am saying keep it the same. goverment squanders cash flow. with less tax income for government to do business, what will happen to our taxes?? my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one69chev Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 ^^^"deep seeded" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 uh huh! but all of this is for the most part out of my realm of knowledge as well. everything i say here is conjecture. my opinion, uninformed and the like. simply put..... TALKING OUT OF MY ASS!!!!!! my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 uh huh! but all of this is for the most part out of my realm of knowledge as well. everything i say here is conjecture. my opinion, uninformed and the like. simply put..... TALKING OUT OF MY ASS!!!!!! Couldn't have put it better myself... nope, not for quality anyway. but i am saying keep it the same. goverment squanders cash flow. with less tax income for government to do business, what will happen to our taxes?? Because what we have works so well . Why would any proposal mean less tax revenue (the govt. doesn't earn income) to the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach_six Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Down with taxes!!! Also this thread isn't funny anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feersum dreadnaught Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 uh huh! but all of this is for the most part out of my realm of knowledge as well. everything i say here is conjecture. my opinion, uninformed and the like. simply put..... TALKING OUT OF MY ASS!!!!!! you should run for public office, you're overqualified... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 yeah, i thought about it. but my temper would get in the way and we'd all be dead! my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Because what we have works so well . Why would any proposal mean less tax revenue (the govt. doesn't earn income) to the government? well, if the government doesn't require tax dollars for anything, then why do they exist in the first place? and what happens if the only taxes ever paid were from the working class and no corporate entity was required to? please explain to me. believe me i am not trying to be a wise ass or bust your balls or anything. i am truely curious as to how you can make this all work while the government loses a portion of its tax revenue. my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 well, if the government doesn't require tax dollars for anything, then why do they exist in the first place? and what happens if the only taxes ever paid were from the working class and no corporate entity was required to? please explain to me. believe me i am not trying to be a wise ass or bust your balls or anything. i am truely curious as to how you can make this all work while the government loses a portion of its tax revenue. Have you been paying attention? Who said the govt didn't require tax revenue? The Fair Tax is designed to be revenue neutral... meaning same amount of money. As far as corporations paying taxes, they may send the money to the IRS but you're the one paying the taxes; higher prices, lower wages, less investment, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstablementaly Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 ok, this i understand and have understood since the beginning. but companies still pay to the irs. regardless of what form it is in, they do pay something. if that revenue was lost, then the public would be responsible for recouping the loss. i'm all about a fair or a flat tax if it were possible to make it work. but it reminds me of lending its incorporation into law as marxism/communism. the human factor just sucks. sorry if i'm making you preach to the ignorant but this is certainly one way of good information gathering/trading. all though you're the one informing and i'm just the one asking/taking. thanks for your patience. my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fj1200 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Revenue is not lost it comes from someplace else. Either option of reforming the tax code would easily work, just ignore the entrenched special interests. Marxism/Communism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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