awdG35killer Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 my detailer is offering to do this. he's good and always hooks it up. he reccommended this to me for the new car. he wants to wax it(simoniz) and TEFLON seal it. is it a big dea;l to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parousia Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 how much is he going to charge you? I just bought the Meguirs Gold and did my own ride for $19! :confused: Parousia BTW it is alot of work so if he is reasonable it is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 HIS msrp is $360. but since i got a detail before i traded in my last car he'll do it for $150(inc. tip), but i get: -hand wash -clay bar(dont think i need it tho) -simoniz carnuaba wax -teflon sealer -2mo unlimited free luxury washes (hand wash and 3 spray type waxes, usually $17/wash) -FREE wash/wax/sealer(same as above) 6 months later for reapply. i think its a good deal since i was chearged $125 for a complete int/ext detail and engine cleaning before. they even removed most of the scratches. ive talked to many ppl there who happen to buy these details. they all come back to him for this detailing, so i figured what the hell. i just have no time to do it myself, im a full time student and worker. they also detail for the local ford/mazda/jaguar dealerships good deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Many off-the-shelf products contain Teflon. :) It's very important to strip off the existing dealer product by washing and claying before applying a new product. If your dealer used the stuff my dealer used, it already contains Teflon as well. I am under the impression that this stuff is used through-out the dealership industry. For that matter, if your dealer has applied a product like this, you are already good for around 6 months. A sealer is a good idea, but in most cases it's applied BEFORE the wax. If you keep the wax applied often enough, the sealer can last a long time. But, I'm not a detailer, and perhaps he has access to stuff that the general public doesn't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 i have used that on my car ... the stuff the dealership gets is a little more exclusive. It makes getting bird crap / sap / bugs / etc off the car MUCH easier.. but it won't shine like a meguires or zano will.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Actually, Meguair's ain't doing so well on my test subject. The First Place Finish stuff is working at least as well as the Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax. Zaino is still kicking both of their butts in shine, clarity, and beading. I think you'll like it when you try next spring RoundBoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parousia Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote name='awdG35killer']HIS msrp is $360. but since i got a detail before i traded in my last car he'll do it for $150(inc. tip), but i get: -hand wash -clay bar(dont think i need it tho) -simoniz carnuaba wax -teflon sealer -2mo unlimited free luxury washes (hand wash and 3 spray type waxes, usually $17/wash) -FREE wash/wax/sealer(same as above) 6 months later for reapply. i think its a good deal since i was chearged $125 for a complete int/ext detail and engine cleaning before. they even removed most of the scratches. ive talked to many ppl there who happen to buy these details. they all come back to him for this detailing, so i figured what the hell. i just have no time to do it myself, im a full time student and worker. they also detail for the local ford/mazda/jaguar dealerships good deal?[/QUOTE] That sounds like a great deal. I would go for it personally because to me its worth a $100 to have someone else bust their back doing the job! As long as you are sure that he does a good job. Parousia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote name='Trent Bates']Actually, Meguair's ain't doing so well on my test subject. The First Place Finish stuff is working at least as well as the Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax. Zaino is still kicking both of their butts in shine, clarity, and beading. I think you'll like it when you try next spring RoundBoy![/QUOTE] Yeah.. I got the meguir's because I can find that anywhere around... and my car *craved* a nice shine when i was showing it around. I might be able to eek out one more wash before the weather turns poo poo, and I already have plans to order my zanio kit for the spring. clay bar and the full deal for removing all the winter month buildup. There is a 'brushless' car wash around me... handy for getting salt, etc off the car, especially the undercarrage... i will probably use that from time to time this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eamiller Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote name='awdG35killer']my detailer is offering to do this. he's good and always hooks it up. he reccommended this to me for the new car. he wants to wax it(simoniz) and TEFLON seal it. is it a big dea;l to do it?[/QUOTE] Exactly how does he propose keeping the teflon on the vehicle? The only way to get Teflon to stick to anything is to fuse it with lots and lots of heat (a-la non-stick pans). Teflon paint coatings and engine treatments are the snake oil of the modern automotive world. Lots of promises, 0 deliveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Teflon by itself doesn't stick so well. Agreed. Teflon as an ingrediant suspended in another medium should work to some degree. Whether it helps or not is another matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote name='eamiller']Exactly how does he propose keeping the teflon on the vehicle? The only way to get Teflon to stick to anything is to fuse it with lots and lots of heat (a-la non-stick pans). Teflon paint coatings and engine treatments are the snake oil of the modern automotive world. Lots of promises, 0 deliveries.[/QUOTE] dude, i know nothikng about it, thats why im asking here. what should i ask him? what should i look for? and i know for damn sure im gonna watch them do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 look at it this way... whatever he uses .. he is giving you a good detail... is a very good car detail w/ claybar, etc worth $150 to you ? I don't think a new car really needs all this stuff done... but its good to get it in before winter comes. The only problem w/ teflon wax sealers,etc is that they are spray on... and you will have a HELL of a time getting it off your windows, etc. i actually had to very fine steel wool my upper window glass to remove the 'baked' on water spots. its like using rain-x on a dirty car... a hell of a lot of scrubbing is needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 naw, he makes sure there arent any spots anywhere, they are precise, especially when they know how much i tip :) edit: whatever my dealership used sucks, cuz the paint isnt slippery anymore and dirt sticks to the body pretty good. i just talked to my detailer. he said wash>claybar>simoniz carnauba wax>hand applied teflon sealer. i'll get it done next month before it rains hard and take pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 "Hand applied teflon sealer" after "simoniz carnuba wax" sounds interesting. I wonder what the point is though. Carnuba wax isn't generally very durable. If the sealer is applied on top, what happens to the sealer when the wax wears? Not criticizing, just curious. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 [quote name='Trent Bates']"Hand applied teflon sealer" after "simoniz carnuba wax" sounds interesting. I wonder what the point is though. Carnuba wax isn't generally very durable. If the sealer is applied on top, what happens to the sealer when the wax wears? Not criticizing, just curious. :)[/QUOTE] im curious too. i'll find out tho. but why is the sealer first then the wax? dont seals usually go over the stuff being sealed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Yeah, that makes sense too. Since I use a "paint sealer" first, then apply the "wax", I always have a surface under the wax that keeps the elements from getting to the paint/clearcoat. Since my experience with Carnuba waxes indicates that it's not that durable, I would kind of think that the sealer on top would come off with the wax. Let me put it a different way. My parents bought a 1987 Ford Taurus new. Ford was trying a new paint method in those days that (if I remember correctly) was a very thin layer of color and some thicker layers of clearcoat. It was probably cheaper because they didn't have to use so much color. After quite a few years ALL of the cars started to lose entire sections of paint at a time. I now have that car (to haul stuff in) and it's almost completely stripped of all of it's paint and there is major rust issues. My understanding is that the clearcoat couldn't protect the thin layer of paint from being heated and degraded by the sun. Once the paint was disintegrating, the clearcoat had nothing to hang on to. I kind of wonder if this wax then seal method wouldn't be similar. But, I'm no expert. I'm just not familiar with putting a sealer on top of wax. It's also my understanding that Carnuba doesn't entirely dry for a while. It doesn't harden. If a sealer is applied over it, it seems like it would take even longer. But again, I'm no expert! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 the teflon should go against the clearcoat. Teflon isn't there for shine.. its there to make removal of normally hard to remove stains much easier. Think cleaning iron pot vs teflon.... Wax should go on AFTER teflon... but IMHO they are kind of exclusive. I don't think you are getting the protection of teflon or the shine / look of wax when you use both products. teflon after wax sounds like the tefon is going to protect the wax... which is not what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 This thread is amusing.. wax sealant. Why not just say sealant sealant? Wax after teflon, that's good too. You want to put on the teflon so nothing sticks, and then stick wax onto it... O K.. At least the teflon isn't going into the crankcase.. yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 got an answer from another forum that apparently is tired of hearing this question(haha): Although Teflon® is an exceptional product when used as intended, it provides no benefit in a wax or polish. According to G.R. Ansul of DuPont's Car Care Products, Specialty Products Division, "The addition of a Teflon® flouropolymer resin does nothing to enhance the properties of a car wax. We have no data that indicates the use of Teflon® fluoropolymer resins is beneficial in car waxes, and we have not seen data from other people that supports this position." Manufacturers of gimmicky, over-hyped products sometimes claim that their products contain Teflon®, hoping that the consumer will believe there is something special about that product. Ansul also notes that, "Unless Teflon® is applied at 700 degrees F, it is not a viable ingredient, and is 100 percent useless in protecting the paint's finish." This is hot enough that your car's paint (let alone your car) wouldn't survive. Teflon® is a registered trademark of Dupont. (Source: Grisanti, Stephen, "The Truth Abouth Teflon®", Professional Carwashing & Detailing ...so NO teflon for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 [quote name='Trent Bates']Yeah, that makes sense too. Since I use a "paint sealer" first, then apply the "wax", I always have a surface under the wax that keeps the elements from getting to the paint/clearcoat. Since my experience with Carnuba waxes indicates that it's not that durable, I would kind of think that the sealer on top would come off with the wax. Let me put it a different way. My parents bought a 1987 Ford Taurus new. Ford was trying a new paint method in those days that (if I remember correctly) was a very thin layer of color and some thicker layers of clearcoat. It was probably cheaper because they didn't have to use so much color. After quite a few years ALL of the cars started to lose entire sections of paint at a time. I now have that car (to haul stuff in) and it's almost completely stripped of all of it's paint and there is major rust issues. My understanding is that the clearcoat couldn't protect the thin layer of paint from being heated and degraded by the sun. Once the paint was disintegrating, the clearcoat had nothing to hang on to. I kind of wonder if this wax then seal method wouldn't be similar. But, I'm no expert. I'm just not familiar with putting a sealer on top of wax. It's also my understanding that Carnuba doesn't entirely dry for a while. It doesn't harden. If a sealer is applied over it, it seems like it would take even longer. But again, I'm no expert! :)[/QUOTE] thanks for the info...how long would CARNAUBA wax last normally??? is it like the worst wax out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hmmm. I don't think it's the worst. Carnauba (Yes, I've been spelling it wrong again!) was generally considered to be pretty good at one time. I feel that Polymer products have surpassed it in longevity and ease of application. I've found that Carnauba lasts about a month or so in my area. Many Polymer products tend to last 3-9 months depending on the product. Personally, I use Zaino Bros Show Car Polish. I'm currently doing an informal test between Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax, First Place Finish (Dealer product) and Zaino Bros on the roof of my Wife's '03 Legacy. Go back to post #8 in this thread for my opinion after two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eamiller Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 [quote name='awdG35killer']thanks for the info...how long would CARNAUBA wax last normally??? is it like the worst wax out there?[/QUOTE] Carnauba wax isn't the "worst" wax, but its a bit volatile and will evaporate within a month or so. Synthetic (acrylic usually) sealents like Klasse, NXT, Zaino are primarily for paint protection. They are superior at protecting the paint from the elements. Carnauba wax has superior shining and "wetness" properties though. Many people will apply a synthetic sealent first (perhaps multiple layers) and then put a layer of carnauba on top to enhance depth and shine. However, the wax should be re-applied a minimum of once a month. Synthetic sealents can last months at a time though (handy for those cold winter months when it's hard to wax a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 [quote name='eamiller']They are superior at protecting the paint from the elements. Carnauba wax has superior shining and "wetness" properties though.[/QUOTE] I agree with everything but this portion. IMO, the shine I get with a couple of coats of Zaino Z-2 on top of a single coat of Z-1 is shinier and wetter than I remember Carnauba being. But, paint has improved in that time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdG35killer Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 thanks all again. maybe i'll just give him a bottle of zaino or klasse and pay for the labor:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Just use Zaino it is the best. I have always used it on all my cars (Legacy GT, Lotus Esprit, Mistu Eclipse). Nothing on the market works better. That fact is proven time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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