ShadowImg Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Ah the joys of researching a new car that you'd really love to own, but aren't sure if it's a good idea to buy it. So right now if I were to drop the dime and buy the 2.5GT, I would purchase a 5EAT Sedan with Navi. Now, reading about the Navi, it's not very good -- especially compared to a much cheaper 3rd party Nav option. However, the question I have comes with the things which are tied to the Nav system. How is the VDC? How much of a difference does it actually make? Anyone have any actual knowledge of the system and its usefulness? Obviously, on top of this, the Nav inhibits the use of that cubby as a gauge housing or other housing for items. That's kinda crappy because it seems an ideal place for a boost gauge and maybe a couple of others (though the $700 gauge cluster option seems a bit overpriced, thoughts?) Additionally, I always talked about swapping out the stock stereo and speakers in my 2.5RS, but found that honestly, they're not THAT bad, but they really lack any bass response. So to go with that, the Nav system also kills your seat subwoofer option -- how good is the optional subwoofer, and who has added a non-option subwoofer to a sedan on the stock headunit (does it have a line out?) Obviously I have a lot of questions, after reading here a lot of other ones are already answered. 5MT vs 5EAT remains a debate in my mind, mainly because I've never owned an MT vehicle. I know how and have driven a manual, but it's certainly not an experience that anyone else would want to suffer through. My father, who is a fairly traditional standard transmission advocate even recommends I stick with the AT rather than the MT due to it being a daily driver and the drive I take every day (It's only 7 miles, but takes 25-35 minutes, end endless string of stop lights and traffic, joy!) I'm after an 07 and not an 05/06 because of the folding rear seats. They were silly to take these out, and it's probably the biggest complaint about my 03 2.5RS (the trunk passthrough? Useless.) If anyone has any general advice on picking the car/options I'm ears too. So far what info I have is: Dealer will give me a 2.5GT Sedan w/ Nav + Autodim Mirror for 30335 Subaru guarantees 11400 for my 2.5RS -- KBB says 11700. I want to talk the dealer into at least 12000. I don't like long-term loans due to interest, so I'm aiming for a 36mo. I can afford it just fine on the above terms, but my goal is to hit a 400/mo or lower payment on the 36mo. 30335 means sales tax of ~2146 here. Forgive my barrage of questions, but I'm young, inexperienced, and tend to overanalyze On top of this, anyone know a good place in Missouri/Illinois to take a car out and properly learn some limits/dynamics in a safe manner? People tell me to go take it to an autocross, but I'm horribly inexperienced in driving, and I really don't want to hold up an event/etc of better drivers with my absurdly low speed and lack of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael A Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Do you realize that $20,481 over 36 months is OVER $600 per month with interest ? ($30,335 '07 Legacy + $2,146 tax = $32,481-$12,000 Trade In = $20,481) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 I do, though tax isn't in the actual price here, you pay tax at licensing (so it's not part of the financed amount) -- and the value listed for the trade-in is subtracted from the value that tax is being calculated against. The reason I mentioned those numbers (which come up to more in the realm of 5xx/mo) is because my goal is to see how far they negotiate on these, and I was hoping people had some tips on that. The Fitzmall price for the car is about 28725, less 12000 for tradein on a 1.9% 36mo would be 479/mo, getting much closer. The additional questions about the Nav being worth it or not (is VDC actually a good thing?) would lower the price of the car by about another ~2100, bringing the above to $414/mo, with a flat tax payment at licensing of about $1025. That help bring the rest of the questions into perspective? Or did I screw up on this math somewhere horribly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 hey first, nav (+ stability control) is ~$2500 which is a lot (IMO) so you can get a portable nav system (I don't know how much) but a lot less than that. I was talking to a guy who has a portable nav and he says he even gets live traffic updates (etc..) and I can imagine if the subi is not as good as the best factory navs than (IMO) I'd rather save the money and pump the extra into a sub or whatever you wish. As for stability control (IMO) this car does not need it. I DRIVE A Honda S2000 which is RWD and has wide tires etc.. So its a bad car to drive in the rain/snow but so far all I do is drive a bit slower in the rain (my own built in stability control). I know that stability control is a safety feature especially in a SUVs, but a car like a Legacy is probably one of the most stable to begin with. Furthermore (depending where you live) you might consider snow tires. I just got a set of Dunlop Winter Sport (performance snow tires) these tires are great, they handle as well (or better) than the best all-season tires when it's cold out but not snowing, and a lot better when it is snowing. My point about the snow tires is lest say you get a set on rims, that will set you back about $1K (or more) you may or may not want to get snow tires, but if you do then the savings from the factory nav system (you lose the stability control) but can get snow tires and portable nav for the money you saved. I don't want to say the Stability control is not worth anything, it's a personal decision. I wouldn't mind having SC in the car, but do I think its worth $2500 (with the nav)? I'm not sure about that. Either way, be happy with what decide, even if you get the nav that's fine, but IMO (I have a nav in a Sienna) I'd rather have a portable nav so I can take it in my other cars or on vacation even. I have 4 cars, so if I paid for nav in all 4 that's be $8K to $10K, so that's not happening, and a portable nav seems like a smart idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't know about the speakers on the GT, but the 2.5i that I own are fine. I may do something with the stereo in a bit, but it's not something I think needs to be fixed at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 hey I don't want to say the Stability control is not worth anything, it's a personal decision. I wouldn't mind having SC in the car, but do I think its worth $2500 (with the nav)? I'm not sure about that. Yup, that's kind of the point I'm at -- it's hard to decide if it's really worth the additional cost. I think I'll end up getting it, just to have the OEM factor of the Nav. Probably going to wait until after Jan 1st (for tax funniness in Missouri) and do it. It's really hard to say how good the VDC is because of how well AWD already works in these cars. Not too many people have real-life experience with it so they can't share opinions. On the snow tires, definitely. I have 2 sets of wheels for my 2.5RS, the summer Rota Tarmac IIs w/ Bridgestone S-03s in 225/45R17, and the stock wheels with a set of Bridgestone Revo1s in stock 205/55R16 size. The Tarmac IIs should fit the LGT just fine, so I don't have to do anything about the summer, but I'll have to contemplate what to do about the winters on the stocks. 215/45R17 seems like an odd size for a winter tire, have to do more research using Xenonk's guides on tire sizing for replacing the RE92s. There's so much information available on the technical shenanigans surrounding all the options, but things like VDC it would be awesome to see some real-life scenarios where people experienced VDC helping them out (or screwing them over) to really know if it's worth the $2100 price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmarch Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 On top of this, anyone know a good place in Missouri/Illinois to take a car out and properly learn some limits/dynamics in a safe manner? People tell me to go take it to an autocross, but I'm horribly inexperienced in driving, and I really don't want to hold up an event/etc of better drivers with my absurdly low speed and lack of skill. that's what autocrosses are for, just register as a novice and they'll take care of you. or a novice autocross school. I'd vote to keep the RS and run it into the ground, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 that's what autocrosses are for, just register as a novice and they'll take care of you. or a novice autocross school. I'd vote to keep the RS and run it into the ground, though Yeah, I'd love to keep the RS, though I get disappointed in its interior and power often for my daily driving. Keeping both is awfully expensive, though something I ponder -- trading in the RS is nice, because it keeps me from ever being upside down on the loan of the LGT very easily. They need to simplify car purchases, damnit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmarch Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Yeah, I'd love to keep the RS, though I get disappointed in its interior and power often for my daily driving. Keeping both is awfully expensive, though something I ponder -- trading in the RS is nice, because it keeps me from ever being upside down on the loan of the LGT very easily. They need to simplify car purchases, damnit! I meant keep the RS and wait for the LGT, actually, since you mentioned you're young and are looking to keep the payment low. Start putting $450/mo into a savings account for your next car, and enjoy the RS now. take it to a few novice autocrosses and learn to drive it. after a year you'll have a nice chunk of money, and the car you wanted to buy will be a year older (and available gently used for a bunch less). You'll also know that you'll be comfortable with a $450 payment, since you've been doing it with the savings. I understand the instant gratification factor, but if you're on the fence, try taking this advice and see how things turn out for you. If you absolutely hate the RS and need to ditch it now (which it doesn't sound like), I'd look into gently used LGT's as a way to save again. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 I meant keep the RS and wait for the LGT, actually, since you mentioned you're young and are looking to keep the payment low. Start putting $450/mo into a savings account for your next car, and enjoy the RS now. take it to a few novice autocrosses and learn to drive it. after a year you'll have a nice chunk of money, and the car you wanted to buy will be a year older (and available gently used for a bunch less). You'll also know that you'll be comfortable with a $450 payment, since you've been doing it with the savings. I understand the instant gratification factor, but if you're on the fence, try taking this advice and see how things turn out for you. If you absolutely hate the RS and need to ditch it now (which it doesn't sound like), I'd look into gently used LGT's as a way to save again. good luck Ohh, yes, I appreciate that. It's not a matter of money, it's just smart spending. My financial advisor actually recommended I spend more money, as I invest more than 99% of people, and if we go any further with my current investment strategy I'm going to have problems with taxes later on. He also told me not to worry about the current interest rates, as even if I take the 60 month I'll be making considerably more on my investments as it stands, even based on just cash floating rate accounts. I already put away about 2200/mo, I guess my concern over spending money makes me come off as someone in a worse financial position than I am. In reality, I guess I'm just cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmarch Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 In that case, definitely keep the RS and turn it into your autocross toy. when the bug hits, mod away for handling improvement, while you keep the LGT as your unmolested cruiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallysquirrel Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 you're better off selling your RS privately and get invoice through FitzMall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 you're better off selling your RS privately and get invoice through FitzMall. How is FitzMall? I kind of wonder how well those transactions work -- it's definitely cheaper, but is it worth the hassle? Do they do the same kind of deals when you want to order a car with specific options/etc? As far as selling the RS privately. In Missouri, we don't pay sales tax on a car, but we do have to pay sales tax at licensing time. The only benefit to doing a trade in vs private party sale is the fact that the trade-in alters what they consider the 'sale price' on the car, so I only pay taxes on the price of the car - trade-in amount. In this case, assuming I trade it in, that saves me about $1000 -- I'm not sure I'll make up the $1000 on the private sale, especially since private sale here requires an inspection and repair of all failed things on inspection (and the inspection system here is extremely corrupt, so they'll make up all kinds of things like "Oh your bushings are dried, gotta replace all of those" -- there's no 'appeal' system, so once they write it, you're fscked) Luxury dealers here are notorious for doing inspections and deciding the car requires extensive repairs (more than the worth of the vehicle) when they're not required at all, in order to force people to buy new cars. It's really, really shitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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