CMull123 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 So I think I've already pounded my clutch, and I don't even have 14,000 miles on 'er yet. First off, yes, I drive hard, I don't race, I have but I don't, but I do drive hard. Not everyday, but alot harder than most ppl. So here's the deal, say I'm in 2nd gear, I get up to speed at say 75-85% throttle (by up to speed I mean testing my 0-60 times ) Since I do about 99% of my driving in town, I don't go too much faster than 40-50 mph normally, so from 2nd gear, I'll swing it over to 5th and with the clutch all the way to the floor, when I put it in 5th, as long as the engine is still spinnin at a good rate, I grind. It's only 5th gear that does this. It's not only from 2nd though, if I do it from 3rd, once again, as long as the engine is spinnin, I grind into 5th. If anyone's ever had this b4, please lemme know. The dealers gotta replace my carpet, find a leak, try to realign my headlights, few other little things in a few days, so I'll bring it up to them then. Thanx for any type of help you guys can give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerami1981 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 just guessing here cause i feel bad noone has answered, but grinding is not related to the clutch if i am correct, sounds more gear box related..if it only happens when going to 5th like that i'm guessing syncros if we have them (dont laugh cause i dont know ) One suggestion is to try doing that from 4th to 5th and see if it still does it, but i really dont think clutch would get you a grinding..only slipping or nothing...but for the last time, all of this is a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algol Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 yes I have no idea... anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallispec Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 i agree with jerami that it sounds like a synchro related problem. Maybe try double clutching into fifth and see if it continues. (clutch to the floor, shift out of gear into neutral, let the clutch up for an instant, then repress it to the floor, then shift in to fifth.) anyhow - sounds like a problem that i'd take in to the dealer and have them look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzed Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Sounds like the syncros to me also, but it might not really be considered a "problem" by Subaru, since they are probably not going to recommend jumping from 2'nd to 5'th. Question: Do you heel/toe or double clutch? If you can blip the throttle to get the revs up while moving the stick into 5'th and the problem goes away or gets better then it's definitely the synchro not spinning enough, not the clutch. Is there a problem going from 4'th to 5'th? If not, then you might just need to work around it from now on if Subaru doesn't see it your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Downshifting to 4th does this on my new clutch at speeds around 55 mph. I learned to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochNY91TSI Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Clutches don't generally 'grind'. If you're hearing grinding it's probably the synchro (as already mentioned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMull123 Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 I know that clutches don't grind, but if your clutch isn't all the way engaged, you will grind while trying to change gears. So if it were my clutch goin out, it would grind into gears cuz it wouldn't be grabbin fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Odds are that the syncros have been quite unhappy at doing so many 2- and 3-5 shifts. Once they're gone, they're gone. After having so many DSMs I treat my tranny very nicely and it has rewarded me with perfect operation for the past 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 After having so many DSMs I treat my tranny very nicely and it has rewarded me with perfect operation for the past 2 years. Yes......but did your crank treat you nicely in those DSM's? OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy16V Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Do not (I repeat) Do not skip 2 gears. It's a bad habbit. Many "old school" shifters will tell you this, mainly because back in the day, before sychronizers, skipping gears meant added wear and tear on the gearsets. (Too many differentials in speed, intertia, etc, etc.) Believe it or not, the manual transmission is still a bit of a mystery to me. I know how it works in general, but from driving one for so many years, once in a while it'll make a grinding noise. And, oh well... Who knows... But... Again, like others have said- it's not clutch. It's your dog teeth, not the gears themselves, they're always meshing (hence fully synchromesh). Check out Howstuffworks "How Manual Transmissions Work" This will give you a real simple diagram of how manual trannys work. But don't pull a hard 2nd, then go right to 5th. As you can see, the Subaru tranny is not up to snuff to it, and it's kinda silly. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 ^What he said. Even if you reach your "target" speed in 2nd or 3rd, do "pro forma" shifts into each gear until top gear. Your tranny will thank you. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniStiGuy Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Why the hell do you skip gears in the first place? Is it some kind of Fast and the Furious cool thing to do or something? Does it excite you to feel the power then cruise along in 5th? The vehicle is designed to go from 1-5 and 5-1 not 2-5 or 3-5 or 5-2 or anything of that sort. Its your synchro's as other's have said that are causing this and the only way to learn and stop it from happening is to drive the the car as it is intended to be driven from 1-5 and 5-1. If I offended you in any way then so be it. You really aren't smart for doing what you do in the first place. Some people just don't understand and thats allright I guess because ignorance is bliss. I once heard that a wise man learns from other's mistakes and the foolish man always has to make his own. OEM HID's Rx330 Retro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Do not (I repeat) Do not skip 2 gears. Tell that to Corvette engineers. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KayGT Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Why the hell do you skip gears in the first place? Is it some kind of Fast and the Furious cool thing to do or something? Does it excite you to feel the power then cruise along in 5th? The vehicle is designed to go from 1-5 and 5-1 not 2-5 or 3-5 or 5-2 or anything of that sort. Its your synchro's as other's have said that are causing this and the only way to learn and stop it from happening is to drive the the car as it is intended to be driven from 1-5 and 5-1. If I offended you in any way then so be it. You really aren't smart for doing what you do in the first place. Some people just don't understand and thats allright I guess because ignorance is bliss. I once heard that a wise man learns from other's mistakes and the foolish man always has to make his own. and in situations where you downshift from 5-3 or 5-2 or when u let third rip passed a car and you decide to let up so u go from 3-5 ....but when i do skip 4 from 3-5 i will always go through the motion of 4 just never let off the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Yes......but did your crank treat you nicely in those DSM's? Absolutely - they were all 1st gen -- except the 97 Spyder GST but that was an automatic and I kept it only one summer. Nice car but FWD (not to mention automatic) was a killer. I bought it because I got a screaming deal on it; I made $4k when I sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochNY91TSI Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 ^^I think DSMs generally get a bad rap. They're old cars, but if you don't beat on them and treat them good (eg, do the maintenance) they run fine. I've never had an issue on my 91 in the 4 years that I've owned it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlgt21 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I am glad a read this thread. This is my first stick car and I have done this ona quite a few occasions not knowing it was bad. I had a feeling it wasn't good on the synchros but never saw a thread like this saying it was bad. Now I have to go out and stop that habit. So when I go from 2-5 I have to hit 3 and 4 too? I leave the cluth all the way to the floor during 3,4 right? Also when I downshift from say 5-3 or 4-2 I Need to hit the gear between while the clutch is all the way to the floor? What if you Rev match? I always revmatch when I go down more then one gear at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 There is nothing wrong with skipping gears as long as you do it correctly. If you are going to skip many gears, double clutch or you will put more wear and tear on your synchromesh. GM is famous for their gear skipping gearbox. The Corvette, Camaro, & Firebirds all have transmissions that has a solenoid that blocks 2nd gear unless you reach a certain engine rpm or throttle position. So if you are light on the gas, when you shift from 1st to 2nd, the gear lever will slide into 4th. This was done to for EPA mpg purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warteaufmich Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 So what causes more synchro wear, a rev-matched 2-5 shift or a non-rev-matched 2-3-4-5 shift with the clutch in the whole time? I'm guessing the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlgt21 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 thats what I was thinking too. The farther the RPM's change when you let the clutch out the harder it is on the synchros and clutch. Thats the idea of rev matching a nice smooth transition to much different RPM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniStiGuy Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 think of it as jumping out of a car and trying to walk or run next to it. If you are driving at 10mph and get out your going to have to exert a higher amount of energy to run really fast (higher revs in our case with the car) to accomplish what it is your trying to do. If you are driving slowly you will have less energy to have to exert (less tension and wear and revs)to accomplish what you are trying to do. Yes GM tranny's are famous for there ability to skip a gear or 2 etc... but we don't drive GM's now do we... To be safe instead of sorry I would just go through the gears as the manufactorer intended us to which is 1-5. In regards to the holding the clutch in aspect while going through 3 and 4 I would say just don't rev out 2nd gear and shift to 3rd then 4th and so on. If you have looked at dyno graphs on our cars you can see that the power band is from around 2800-3000 ish rpm's up to around 5250-5500 rpms at its best so there really in my opinion is no need to rev out to redline ever. Of course all of this is just my own formed opinion and logical explaination on how I see this general cituation. OEM HID's Rx330 Retro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Holding the clutch and shifting still wears out the synchros. In the gearbox, the output shaft is turning at the same speed the drive shafts to the wheel are turning. When you push in the clutch, the input shaft of the gear box starts slowing down since it's not being driven by the engine. So when you shift into another gear, the synchro has to speed up the input shaft to the output shaft's speed inorder to engage the gear. When you double clutch, push in the clutch, shift to neutral, let out the clutch, raise or lower the engine rpm to roughly where it needs to be, push in the clutch and shift to the gear you want then let out the clutch. The reason you shift into neutral and let out the clutch is now you have to engine turning the input shaft in the transmission. When you match the rpm of the input shaft to the output shaft, the synchro don't have to do any work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonwannabe Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 None of these opinions matter. Yours is the only one that does, if that is how you drive your car and you don't like it, tell the dealer while it is still under warranty. Mine is brand new and I skip gears in it just fine. NO grinding, if it gives me problems I will take it back and get it fixed and beat the hell out of a loaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy16V Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Well, when you start a thread something to the effect of "I don't race, I have, but I don't but I drive hard..." (or whatever you're trying to imply... Something tells me, the car gets beat on. You can skip gears within reason, eg. pulling a hard 3rd, then sliding to 5th. Pushing the clutch in of course... I mean, people talk about "power shifting..." Yeah, right. Ask any modern driver if they do this regularly. Please, its just not worth it. The point that I'm trying to make is, if you drive a certain way, that's great. I see people who actually don't let off the clutch at all in first. Very bad. I see people who rest their foot on the clutch while cruising. Very bad. When I say "very bad" really it's "not correct." Killing the car in 2nd, getting to 60 then slamming it into 5th is obviously not working out for the guy. Or I should say the car. GM made it work in the F-Body LT1s and the Corvette, well, look at the engine/tranny combo we're talking about. Different machine, very different. Dare I say, perhaps more robust in some ways? That car had so much low-end power, the thing hardly needed a 3 speed transmission, let alone a 6! If you want to drive a stick like a moron, that's your business. If you want to "beat" on your cars, that's your business. Just don't go asking why the thing breaks, or claiming faulty equipment. Racers break cars everyday. The only difference is, their sponsors fix them for free. Who's your sponsor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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