Drag Racing Times & Data

[rporter]

This was a discussion about Drag Strip times in another topic that we moved, but here are some thoughts for going forward with the posting of dragstrip times. I personally would like to see dragstrip times, but I also want to see more information along with the times to get a better picture, such as: Model/bodystyle (sedan or wagon, GT or GT Limited) Tranny Tires Mileage (a factor, since the cars are pretty new) Environmentals, such as: Dragstrip and altitude Temperature Barometer Humidity Wind speed & direction After doing this for MANY years, I've found that it can be hard to compare without seeing the factors that can affect the times. I probably won't run our Gingerman track event (with my other club....but spots are available for any car!! Contact me if you are interested) on Friday 10/22, but I will be running the Legacy at the 4th Annual Fall Lapeer Dragway Meet at Lapeer (Michigan) Dragway on Saturday 10/23 (this is the event that I set up....contact me for more info). The car will only have about a 1,000 miles on it at that point, but it will give me a baseline. As with other new cars I've had over the years, it won't get it's best times until at least 10K on the odometer. And since I also set up an Annual Spring Lapeer Dragway Meet, the 5th one will be late next April or early next May, I should get some better times!! (looking for a very high 13 after seeing the C&D times on a GT Limited sedan that wasn't truly broken in yet!!) Ron

[Whitestar Pilot]

Its going to be over a year before I get 10,000 on the odometer. I will try to include as much info as possible though when posting results. Hoping to make it out to the track before it closes this year, but right now I've only go 330 miles showing. --- Pearl White LGT Limited 5M

[SUBE555]

Here is a 13-sec one! Stock too. [url]http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000817[/url] For those who don't want to look at the story of his night: Conditions: 2000' elevation and 88 degrees R/T .626 60' 2.099 330 6.089 1/8 9.146 MPH 81.25 1000' 11.752 1/4 13.982 MPH 100.76

[Whitestar Pilot]

Very impressive. Thanks for the link!

[rporter]

[quote name='Whitestar Pilot']Its going to be over a year before I get 10,000 on the odometer. I will try to include as much info as possible though when posting results. Hoping to make it out to the track before it closes this year, but right now I've only go 330 miles showing. --- Pearl White LGT Limited 5M[/quote] I won't worry about it. I will have "maybe" a 1,000 miles on mine when I run in late October, but it will give me a baseline. Ron

[rporter]

[quote name='SUBE555']Here is a 13-sec one! Stock too. [url]http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000817[/url] For those who don't want to look at the story of his night: Conditions: 2000' elevation and 88 degrees R/T .626 60' 2.099 330 6.089 1/8 9.146 MPH 81.25 1000' 11.752 1/4 13.982 MPH 100.76[/quote] Very good link!! Thanks!! As I suspected, the launches will be quite tough. The "clutch slipping" trick also works for FWD cars, but I was not willing to do it. Since that is obviously the way to great times, I won't be doing a lot of runs on the car, but it confirms my belief that the Legacy 5MT is capable of high 13s in stock condition. His runs were also quite good, considering the high temp. His altitude isn't TOO bad (we are at 700' here). One thing that helps him in that temp is that Vegas air is quite dry, and humidity can also work against you. If it's 88 degress here in the Detroit area, the humidity is also up there (above 50% at least). This is why we no longer waste our time doing the strip in the summer (that, and the Summer Gas we have here from June-September). Ron

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

Thats awesome. I wanna try to run this car at Eatontwon if I get a chance this fall. It'll be tough since I'm now down at school in NC and I don't have many times I actually drive my car back up there. But the low elevation and 50 degree temps in the fall should give me a great shot for some good runs. P.S. And that was a limited Sedan my base wagon is 10 pounds lighter but iwth .02 of extra drag we'll see what it can do Driver ha just playing.

[hodgeee]

Someone asked me to repost over here, I found a picture that someone from the flat4lv.com club had taken of my car that night. I got a lot of people come up and ask me what the car was at that point. Maybe since I debadged it, but mostly since I ran a sub 14 second run. My friend just installed a catback on his Vette a week ago and was dying to run his car, he didn't want to go alone so he asked me to go with him. I was a little hesitant since I barely had 1100 miles on the car. I decided that I would change my oil that day then run later that night. We got to the track at 11:00pm and got about 5 or six runs in. I tell you what, I have been drag racing for 18 years with all kinds of cars and trucks, and I have never had such a hard time figuring out how to launch a car. What it takes with this car is just burning out the clutch by revving the car to hell, and slipping it all the way through first and second gear. I never have run so inconsistantly at the track before. I have practiced a little more, but am still warry of the clutch. It feels like my Vette when I run it right though! So I guess the stats were 88 degrees, 2000 foot elevation, pretty humid outside, but I don't know how much, 1100 miles on the car, and the only modification was an STI strut tower brace! [img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/338000-338999/338801_11_full.jpg[/img] [img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/338000-338999/338801_5_full.jpg[/img] [img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/338000-338999/338801_1_full.jpg[/img] decided to throw in a picture of my now sold Vette and GMC truck. I set both of those up for drag racing. Kind of miss them a little but I love this car, so it ain't that bad at all. In my opinion this car is more of a runner for the race track or the street than it is for drag racing. I enjoy driving this car more than any vehicle that I have had yet. It is just a perfect mix of luxury, utility, and performance.

[rporter]

I hear ya! I was glad to see the post about the 5,500 launch and the clutch slip, but I got the impression that the clutch slipping was just done to get the car moving, and then it's a normal run from there. I will give it a try at the drag day I've set up for the other clubs (Taurus SHO, TCCA, and others) on Saturday 10/23 that will have 30-40 cars following the track day at Gingerman on Friday 10/22. I will only have maybe a 1,000 miles on the car at that point, but I'll give it a few tries with the 5,500 launch. Actually, this is also the "best" method for ETs on a FWD SHO, but I usually do a 3,500 launch and let it bog a bit (on the SHO) to save the clutch. If the Legacy can hook up and keep the revs up after a launch with only slipping it to get moving, that will be OK. If it needs a lot of slip to get moving, I won't do many runs!! I don't see why you would need to slip the clutch once you are moving in 1st gear, though.

[hodgeee]

Well, believe it or not, when I would launch at high rpm, and slip the clutch a little and then let it all the way out, the car did not accelerate as fast. I slipped it almost entirely though first gear, and my rpms never dropped below 5000 rpm through first and second. When I slipped it through all of first and engaged it in second gear is when I got the 14.4 run. When just dropping the hammer at a high rpm, the car felt pretty slow and I kept getting 15 second runs. So yeah, its pretty damn hard on the clutch, that is why I mean the car is not so great for drag racing.

[Whitestar Pilot]

[quote]I enjoy driving this car more than any vehicle that I have had yet. It is just a perfect mix of luxury, utility, and performance.[/quote] As a fellow former LS1 owner, I feel the same way about my LGT. Thanks for the valuable information regarding how to milk this car from the line. And congratulations on nailing a 13.9 in your stock Legacy. Running inconsistant times will be hard for me to swallow; my Trans Am was an automatic, and it ran 13.70s all day long. At least now I know what to expect. Hope this Subaru's clutch is built to handle a dozen or so runs a year. I only go out to the track about twice a season.

[SUBE555]

I'm sure it will be able to last that long, I don't plan on more than 6-8 launches at a drag strip per year, so you should be alright. Just don't smoke it. Hodgeee, did you smell the clutch during that launch? I know I haven't smelled the clutch any time I've done a quick rubber-band launch.

[Ninjapimp]

Damn it! I wanted to be the first sub 13'er! :cry: :lol: I knew the car had it. My 14.1 was in completely crappy conditions. I am glad to see you've confirmed my suspicions though. I had a hell of a time trying to figure out the launch too...man it's tough to find the sweet spot. I can't wait to see the first sub 2.0 60' run though.... ;)

[Driver72]

D@mn nice times. I just knew the LGT was a 13.9 second stock car. I said it MANY times in other posts, some didn't believe me, especially on other boards. Not only am I happy to see that the STOCK LGT really is a 13.9 second car, but if very well could be a 13.7 second car with cooler weather and more miles. 13.9 on a car with only 1100 mile on it and at 88 degrees at 2000 foot elevation!! What I wasn't expecting is the 100+ mph trap speed. I estimated 98+ mph in most of my other post predictions. Again, looks like 101 mph is possible with more miles, cooler weather and lower elevation. SWEET!

[Driver72]

Hodgeee, gotta know: What kind of break in did you do on your car? A. Granny style for the first 1000 miles B. Mature adult style for the first 1000 miles. C. Moderately heavy footed with an occasional high rpm run D. MotoTune style...drive it hard! Thanks!

[SUBE555]

I think I'm a C.

[Xaqtly]

FWIW, I don't believe the Legacy is a "13 second car". If you slip the absolute hell out of your clutch through both 1st and 2nd gear it *can* be a very high 13 second car. But how many of us are going to do that on the street? I'm not. The thing is, slipping the clutch like that means you're basically using your clutch like a torque converter, keeping the RPMs right at the power peak (~5k RPM) for all of 1st and 2nd gear. That's why those runs were so fast. Your clutch isn't designed to do that all the time, and if you drive the car normally (i.e. without slipping the clutch through 1st and 2nd), and even if you're a great drag racer, you'll never break into the 13s. I just don't feel right calling the LGT a "13 second car" knowing the circumstances under which those 13.9 timeslips were acheived. However it is darn close to being able to run 13s consistantly without using the pseudo-torque converter method, it's probably just a reflash and some breathing mods away. This isn't to take anything away from the guys who have run 13s in their stock LGTs. That's very impressive, and I'm happy to see it can be done in stock form. But to me, a "13 second car" is one that can run a 13 second time every single run, consistantly, driving the car normally as opposed to slipping the clutch through the first two gears. I'm hoping to make my Legacy a 13 second car at some point in the future. :)

[Driver72]

[quote name='Xaqtly']FWIW, I don't believe the Legacy is a "13 second car". If you slip the absolute hell out of your clutch through both 1st and 2nd gear it *can* be a very high 13 second car. But how many of us are going to do that on the street? I'm not. The thing is, slipping the clutch like that means you're basically using your clutch like a torque converter, keeping the RPMs right at the power peak (~5k RPM) for all of 1st and 2nd gear. That's why those runs were so fast. Your clutch isn't designed to do that all the time, and if you drive the car normally (i.e. without slipping the clutch through 1st and 2nd), and even if you're a great drag racer, you'll never break into the 13s. I just don't feel right calling the LGT a "13 second car" knowing the circumstances under which those 13.9 timeslips were acheived. However it is darn close to being able to run 13s consistantly without using the pseudo-torque converter method, it's probably just a reflash and some breathing mods away. This isn't to take anything away from the guys who have run 13s in their stock LGTs. That's very impressive, and I'm happy to see it can be done in stock form. But to me, a "13 second car" is one that can run a 13 second time every single run, consistantly, driving the car normally as opposed to slipping the clutch through the first two gears. I'm hoping to make my Legacy a 13 second car at some point in the future. :)[/quote] Ahhh, if that's how you feel you know you better adjust times for EVERY car on the street then. How do you think people get the best times on ANY car? By driving it like they would on the street? How do you think they get EVO's to run low 13's? Same with WRX STI's How do you think they launch S2000's? The point is, no matter what you are willing to subject your car too, if it means slipping the clutch or high rpm drop clutch launch, if he (and I presume others will too) got a 13.9 time on a stock car...then the Legacy IS a "13 second car"

[Whitestar Pilot]

[quote name='Driver72'][quote name='Xaqtly']FWIW, I don't believe the Legacy is a "13 second car". If you slip the absolute hell out of your clutch through both 1st and 2nd gear it *can* be a very high 13 second car. But how many of us are going to do that on the street? I'm not. The thing is, slipping the clutch like that means you're basically using your clutch like a torque converter, keeping the RPMs right at the power peak (~5k RPM) for all of 1st and 2nd gear. That's why those runs were so fast. Your clutch isn't designed to do that all the time, and if you drive the car normally (i.e. without slipping the clutch through 1st and 2nd), and even if you're a great drag racer, you'll never break into the 13s. I just don't feel right calling the LGT a "13 second car" knowing the circumstances under which those 13.9 timeslips were acheived. However it is darn close to being able to run 13s consistantly without using the pseudo-torque converter method, it's probably just a reflash and some breathing mods away. This isn't to take anything away from the guys who have run 13s in their stock LGTs. That's very impressive, and I'm happy to see it can be done in stock form. But to me, a "13 second car" is one that can run a 13 second time every single run, consistantly, driving the car normally as opposed to slipping the clutch through the first two gears. I'm hoping to make my Legacy a 13 second car at some point in the future. :)[/quote] Ahhh, if that's how you feel you know you better adjust times for EVERY car on the street then. How do you think people get the best times on ANY car? By driving it like they would on the street? How do you think they get EVO's to run low 13's? Same with WRX STI's How do you think they launch S2000's? The point is, no matter what you are willing to subject your car too, if it means slipping the clutch or high rpm drop clutch launch, if he (and I presume others will too) got a 13.9 time on a stock car...then the Legacy IS a "13 second car"[/quote] No, I gotta go with Xaq on this. The Legacy if definitely not a 13-second car on the street, because it is not a 13-second car on the move. Its the launch that makes the difference with this car's ETs, and the clutch won't last if driven this way at every stoplight. My Trans Am was an automatic w/traction control. It launched hard off the line with no wheel spin, and ran a 13.7--everytime down the track. From a stoplight, it was the same story, if you raced me, you were racing a 13.7 Trans Am. Like Xaq said, a modded Legacy could get there too, but off the showroom floor, it isn't quite there. In fact, on the move, wasn't it you that said the Legacy would lose to the Altima 3.5? This is a mid-14 second car. My Trans Am would eat the Altima for lunch on the move. The Legacy? Not a 13-second car on the street.

[Driver72]

[quote name='Whitestar Pilot'][quote name='Driver72'][quote name='Xaqtly']FWIW, I don't believe the Legacy is a "13 second car". If you slip the absolute hell out of your clutch through both 1st and 2nd gear it *can* be a very high 13 second car. But how many of us are going to do that on the street? I'm not. The thing is, slipping the clutch like that means you're basically using your clutch like a torque converter, keeping the RPMs right at the power peak (~5k RPM) for all of 1st and 2nd gear. That's why those runs were so fast. Your clutch isn't designed to do that all the time, and if you drive the car normally (i.e. without slipping the clutch through 1st and 2nd), and even if you're a great drag racer, you'll never break into the 13s. I just don't feel right calling the LGT a "13 second car" knowing the circumstances under which those 13.9 timeslips were acheived. However it is darn close to being able to run 13s consistantly without using the pseudo-torque converter method, it's probably just a reflash and some breathing mods away. This isn't to take anything away from the guys who have run 13s in their stock LGTs. That's very impressive, and I'm happy to see it can be done in stock form. But to me, a "13 second car" is one that can run a 13 second time every single run, consistantly, driving the car normally as opposed to slipping the clutch through the first two gears. I'm hoping to make my Legacy a 13 second car at some point in the future. :)[/quote] Ahhh, if that's how you feel you know you better adjust times for EVERY car on the street then. How do you think people get the best times on ANY car? By driving it like they would on the street? How do you think they get EVO's to run low 13's? Same with WRX STI's How do you think they launch S2000's? The point is, no matter what you are willing to subject your car too, if it means slipping the clutch or high rpm drop clutch launch, if he (and I presume others will too) got a 13.9 time on a stock car...then the Legacy IS a "13 second car"[/quote] Like Xaq said, a modded Legacy could get there too, but off the showroom floor, it isn't quite there. [b]***Tell that to the guy who got a 13.9. And you better be prepared to tell that to all the other guys who'll get high 13's with the car once the weather cools and more miles are on the car. And you better tell EVERY car on the street that has AWD and launches hard that their cars aren't really as fast as the times they get with them by launching hard. Better tell the WRX STI guys their cars aren't 13.0-13.1 second cars stock either. Head on over to the EVO board and explain to those owners that even though they're getting low 13's at the track stock, that their cars are really high 13 cars, because launching hard doesn't count. You might want to try to explain that to the S2000 and RX-8 guys and any other VTEC-like car that launches up near redline to get the times they get.***[/b] In fact, on the move, wasn't it you that said the Legacy would lose to the Altima 3.5? This is a mid-14 second car. My Trans Am would eat the Altima for lunch on the move. [b]***Yes, on the move the LGT would most likely be a bit back from a new Altima. The Altime is a mid 14's car. But we're talking track here. The Altima can't get the launch to be a 13 second car at the track. From a roll, launch is not in the equation and at that point AWD becomes more of a hinderance than benefit. But that doesn't mean you just eliminate the advantage of AWD from the equation when we're talking 1/4 mile times. Of course your Trans Am would eat the Altima for lunch on the move, but an LGT would eat your Trans Am for lunch off the line and up to say 50-60 mph? What's your point? That it's okay to compare cars once rolling but not from a standstill?***[/b] The Legacy? Not a 13-second car on the street. [b]***Actually, it could even do better on the street. Often times tracks have "slippery" surfaces that allow even AWD cars to spin too much. On a nice smooth clean pavement, with a hard launch, it might actually be easier for the LGT to get into the 13's. And sorry, if a stock version car gets 13 second times at the track, it's a 13 second car at the track or from a standstill. If you don't think so, you better go to the track and tell everybody who runs 13.8-13.9's with AWD cars that their cars aren't "really" 13 second cars. Then explain your theory to all the auto mags too who test the cars and use high rpm, clutch abusing launches for many of the cars they test.***[/b][/quote]

[Whitestar Pilot]

Getting a little bent out of shape there, aren't you? You know, the guy who ran the 13.9 has already chimed in on this thread, so its not like I'm going behind his back on this by agreeing with Xaq's concerns. As a fellow LS1 owner (I believe he said he had a Corvette), I think he would actually agree with me on this. All you have to do is look at the MPH at the end of the run. If Hodgee ran a 100+ trap speed in his Legacy, then I wonder what his trap speeds were in his Corvette? I think the main problem with our communication here is that we are talking about 2 different things. You insist that if a car runs a high 13 on the track, then it is a high 13 second car, period, whereas I'm saying that no, in the real world sometimes it isn't. In the other thread, I noticed you just said your friend's LGT ran EVEN with a G35 sedan on the street. Well there you go. The G35 is NOT a 13-second car. BTW, I raced a G35 Coupe in my Trans Am from a 40mph roll, and beat the snot out of it (about 3 carlengths from 40-90mph). And look, lets face it, if I'm at a stoplight, and some kid in his Prelude pulls up and starts reving me, chances are I'm not going to rip my clutch up over it and launch from 5 grand. I'm just going to do a soft launch, and pull away from him gradually, thusly running a mid-14 style run in order to beat him, but not tear up my new Legacy. -- Pearl White GT Limited 5M

[Driver72]

I guess we see the defintion of a "13 second" or "14 second" or "10 second" car differently. I don't define a cars time by how fast it is from a roll. When someone, anyone really, says a car is a "13 second" car they are talking 1/4 mile. And in the 1/4 mile you start from a dead stop. Maybe you should come up with a different terminology for cars based on how fast they are from a roll. Because as it stands, someone (and I'm 100% confident others will follow) has gotten into the 13's with a stock LGT. That makes it a "13 second" capable stock car in the 1/4 mile.

[Whitestar Pilot]

Perhaps I should invent a new terminology for this. Hmmm... It all started back in high school, my friend had a 5.7 Tuned-Port IROC. When the new Eagle Talon AWD debuted, I jokingly told him to "watch out, that AWD turbo car will get you!" A few months later he met up with one on the highway, and reported back to me that from a 60mph roll, it was absolutely no contest. He completely smoked the TSi Talon. And so from then on, I've always tried to guage just what a car should run mph/wise in line with its 1/4 mile times. Maybe I should draw up a chart and go from there. :lol: It could be fun. When my book on this subject gets published, I'll be sure to mention you in the credits. :wink: Also, good luck at the track. Myself, I hope to make it out there in a few weeks, hopefully after I cross the 1,000 mile mark and before they close for the winter. --

[Driver72]

Nice. I know what your friend feels like. I had a Mustang GT in 1990/91 (I think that's when the Talon/Eclipse debuted) and a neighbor guy thought he was all the rage when he got it and thought he'd take me in the 5.0 Stang. He obviously didn't do his homework. The only other American V8 car that was faster than the stang at that point was the Corvette. IROC and Trans Am were close, but I would pull away from every one of those too. Well, one day we finally got lined up at a light on a street that has very little traffic. Nobody in front of us for as far as we could see. He had a chick in the car and was all smug like he was going to cream me. This was my 2nd 5.0 so I was pretty familiar launching them, I think his car was about 4 months old at the time. Light goes green, we take off, he jumps like 1-1.5 car lengths on me, but with my tries just spinning a bit then hooking up, I'm off and start gaining instantly. By mid way through 2nd I was up alongside and just kept walking away. I shut down in third probably in the 90 mph range (on a 45 mph street). But I was about 2 car lengths in front at that point. At the next light he said, "your not stock are you?" I said, "completely, just have the air silencer off." He says, "you shouldn't of beat me." I said, "yes I should, the 5.0 Mustang is faster than you think." Anyway, yeah, think of a new terminology for describing the power of cars from a roll. That would be cool, I could at least say I inspired you. :)

[rporter]

Car & Driver instituted a test like that a bunch of years ago, and it's in all of their road tests. They did it for the same reasons.....to eliminate the variable of launching various cars. They call it "Street Start", and they measure the 5-60 mph time. And yes, if you run a 13 at the srip, you have a "13 second car". 1/4 mile times only apply to times at a dragstrip, not G-Tech, and not what it can possibly do on the street. Many, many, cars cannot get their best times without different driving techniques. Ron