Prodrive enters Formula One in 2008. Will Subaru provide their engines ?

[AWD_Rules3830]

True in theory, but there are other problems that would arise from that configuration. I say this partly based on the experience of Renault, with the wide-angle V10 they were running from 2001-2003. Modern F1 engines are a stressed member of the chassis, and although Renault had a handling advantage at certain slow, high-downforce tracks such as Hungary, the wide-angle engine was overstressed and had too much flex, and they were never able to generate as much power as other teams.

 

A horizontally-opposed engine is really just a 180-degree V, and it would likely have the same flex and stress problems that the wide-angle Renault engine had. Maybe this could be solved by beefing up the structure of the engine (i.e. making it heavier), but this would negate any handling advantage by reducing the amount of ballast the team could add while remaining over the weight limit.

 

hmmm, what did renault go to that is giving them soo much speed now?

[rfd425]

hmmm, what did renault go to that is giving them soo much speed now?

They went back to a traditional configuration ( I think a 72-degree V-angle). I believe 2004 was the first year with the new configuration. They did win a race with the wide-angle engine (Hungary in 2003, where Fernando Alonso lapped Michael Schumacher:eek: ), but they generally weren't a match for the top teams at the time.

 

The first year of the wide-angle Renault engine was 2001 (when the team was still called Benetton), and in the beginning of that year, they were battling with Minardi for the last positions at the rear of the grid. Coincidentally, the Minardi driver who often embarrassed Benetton in qualifying was 19-year old Fernando Alonso.

[just_phil]

Also, I believe, the new regulations require a 90-degree V8.

[AWD_Rules3830]

Also, I believe, the new regulations require a 90-degree V8.

 

and dont they ahve to be like 2 or 3 L as well ... really small engines, which would explian why they dont make that much torque

[Scotty]

New regulation does specify 90 degree V8 and it's a 2.4L. Old formula was 3.0L V10.

 

F1 cars don't need to have much torque since they weigh less than 700 kg and they drive within a really narrow power band.

[AWD_Rules3830]

New regulation does specify 90 degree V8 and it's a 2.4L. Old formula was 3.0L V10.

 

F1 cars don't need to have much torque since they weigh less than 700 kg and they drive within a really narrow power band.

 

All they do is scream down the str8s with ear busting intensity ... or so i hear (haha), i wanted to go to US Grand Prix this summer ... however vacations have other plans lol

[rfd425]

New regulation does specify 90 degree V8 and it's a 2.4L. Old formula was 3.0L V10.

I'll be darned. I didn't know that they specified the V-angle in the new engine formula. In the V10 era, there were several different schools of thought on V-angles, resulting in a number of different configurations.

[mwiener2]

2.4L V8.....3.0L V10

 

damn, those are tiny pistons...no wonder they rev so high

[rfd425]

2.4L V8.....3.0L V10

 

damn, those are tiny pistons...no wonder they rev so high

Also, the shape of the pistons/cylinders comes into play. I hope I'm getting the terminology right, but I believe they have a large bore, and a short stroke. In other words, they are relatively flat & pancake shaped compared to a street V8 or a Nascar engine. This helps to allow them to rev so high, but also gives them a narrow power band.

 

The current Cosworth V8 supposedly revs to 20,000 rpm. The V10's had surpassed 19,000 but I don't think they made it to 20K (I could be wrong). By 2008, they will probably be making 22,000 rpm with the V8's.

 

Apparently, one of the problems with the V8 configuration is the inherent vibration. I'm not sure what their solution is to that, but I wonder if they are, or will be in the future, using counterbalancers, such as VW used in the Passat W8 engine. Supposedly that W8 configuration had terrible inherent vibration, but having driven one, I can attest that the counterbalancers did their job well, as it was an extremely smooth engine.

[osunick]

Remember, Prodrive also builds the Ferrari 575LM for LeMans, so my guess is that they'll use Ferrari V8's.

[rfd425]

Remember, Prodrive also builds the Ferrari 575LM for LeMans, so my guess is that they'll use Ferrari V8's.

That's not out of the realm of possibility, but I'd say it's a longshot. The last I heard, the Ferrari factory was not involved in the Prodrive LeMans effort in any significant way; Prodrive simply bought the cars and converted them to race spec themselves, as a purely privateer effort.

 

On the other hand, I'm sure that Ferrari would be glad to have another engine customer in addition to Red Bull Racing, as that would be another $20+ million in revenue for Ferrari. However, the Cosworth engines cost probably half that, making Cosworth a more affordable option for the fledgling Prodrive team.

 

Supposedly, Prodrive has already said that they will be using the Cosworth engine, but a lot could change by 2008.

[peterman]

I think your right about Prodrive and Ferrari not having much of a connection. Ferrari actually started selling their own 575GTC in competition with the prodrive cars. Shortly after that Prodrive announced they would be doing the Aston DBR9 Le Mans cars with strong Ford backing.

 

Prodrive isn't new to F1 and I think they've been behind the BAR-Honda team for the last few years. This is straight from the Prodrive website:

 

 

"motorsport achievements

http://www.prodrive.com/images/spacer.gifProdrive is the world’s largest and most successful motorsport business. Since 1984 we have won more than 200 international rally and race events, including six World Rally Championship titles, five British Touring Car Championships and a GTS class win at Le Mans in 2003.

 

From 2002 until the end of the 2004 season, Prodrive was responsible for managing the turnaround in performance of the BAR Formula One team, helping to bring it second place in the manufacturers’ F1 series in 2004.

 

In 2005, Prodrive has taken Aston Martin back into motorsport through Aston Martin Racing; is now into its 16th year with the Subaru World Rally Team; and its third year in the Australia V8 Supercar series with Ford Performance Racing."

[Jon in CT]

And BAR/Honda did how well last year? It appears that Prodrive disclaims any association with F1 for 2005.

[zed32]

http://www.iwoc.co.uk/images/subaru/subaruflat12.jpg

 

what now?

 

do you think it has 'that boxer rumble'?

[rfd425]

From 2002 until the end of the 2004 season, Prodrive was responsible for managing the turnaround in performance of the BAR Formula One team, helping to bring it second place in the manufacturers’ F1 series in 2004.

I would dispute this claim. In 2002, under the Prodrive/David Richards regime, BAR was worse than in '00 and '01 under Craig Pollock. Right before he was fired, Pollock had managed to hire Geoff Willis away from Williams to be the new technical director. The '03 car was the first that was designed by Willis, and was quite a bit better than any previous BAR machine. The '04 car, which was very good, was also Willis' creation. For Prodrive/David Richards to take credit for the competitiveness of the '04 BAR car is ridiculous.

 

Richards was fired at the end of 2004, ending Prodrive's association with the team.