SUBE555 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I'll try and remember Adam. I will try and talk to the little bird I know there and see whom it may make the most impact with. No word back from Prodrive, if I have time I'll get back to them this week. I agree on how things have changed/progressed. I am very happy with the car. Like has been said, everything you want, nothing you don't. The smile is premium, it's a premium ever day. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Go hard and go forth. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan42025 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 [quote name='aldog1330']And mine came with the ability to put a smile on my face every morning when I get up to drive into work.[/quote] Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I don't even mind being stuck in traffic anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldog1330 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 1,000 miles passed on the way in to work today...the ride home tonight is gonna be fun! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Regarding going too upscale and high priced: The non-Ltd GT is an amazing bargain in true Suby tradition for value minded driver purists. No heavy hole in the roof, no leather, minimal power seat, low weight and $25k for car that performs with or better than $40k to $60k icons. As long as Suby keeps this offering in line up, they have held their purist, customer base. Suby has stated that they want to capture customers from Audi/BMW. To capture and hold those customers they need a Legacy version of LL Bean (Maybe Nike or Sti Version). Wanting an interior with M3 quality materials does not mean the car is not driver oriented. Paying $34k for today’s Leg GT/Ltd with nothing added but M3 interior would still be a value and would not be BMW/Jaguar price inflation. Regarding Suby & Saab: I am quite sure that arrangement ends next year and Saab goes Opel. Regarding Suby design: I love so many things about new design, but IMO the car is still a “bit” generic looking and is still short of that identity edge. Especially the Sedan backside. A slightly modified grill and tail lights would help, but be careful. Anyone want to see that odd upside down Alfa grill shown on concept Suby on your Leg GT? Hope they modify and lighten that baby up before we get the Bangle syndrome started in Suby land. New Suby design chief is from BMW/Alfa and may not be afraid to get help from Italian design house. Going upscale versus liking car today: I love the interior design of todays Leg GT as much or better than M3 or A4S. Saying I would like some of the features in the M3, better sound, better materials, steering wheel audio controls, homelink, auto up/dwn windows does not mean I want a heavy luxo boat versus a drivers car. Subaru can capture a whole lot more Leg GT/non limited customers if they move their image in exactly the direction the adverts are pointing and if they develop GT into a value performance flag ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 No kidding about the Alfa design. Zapatinas may prove to be the Japanese Bangle and my fear is he is going to kill all momentum that Suby has built up to this point if his "concepts" are put to market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflayer Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 The luxury market garners more profit. Subaru is wise to make a move on that. However, Subaru was and is known for their rally heritage. I don't think that will change. As someone pointed out, Porsche made the Cayenne, yet kept the performance heritage. I think Subaru will be able to follow that mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I am an optomist and I think Sapatina has a pretty good track record so I expect the best, but the Bangle fear is there. Isn't Subys new SUV do out next year MY06? and should't early info on that give a view into Suby attempt to go upmarket with first design influenced by Sapatina? What will new SUV do that Forester does not? Bigger, slower, 8 passengers? Higher ticket product test? I thought big SUVs were on the fast track out of bling and soccer mom popularity. New Outback seems to be the ultimate SUV, unless you just need three rows of seats. The OBXT does everything better than any monster SUV except haul minivan loads of people or tow big boats. One more signal by Suby they want to expand market share. Hope one of their baby's hits big to pay for duds. Paul Hogan and OB did it last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 MtnSub, it's Zapatinas. We will indeed see what direction Subaru is moving. This is what is speculated. I've heard rumors that as early as MY06 the Legacy would adopt that front end too! I sure hope not. Wait and see how it's taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 it would be really funny if the MY06 STi Legacy comes with that front end! On one hand, there's that crazy uber-legacy but on the other, you get this pig-snout front. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 This type of forum naturally migrates towards how to make the object of our interest, LegGT toy, better. We all want to be Mr. Suby and dictate our perfect car. We all love the car enough today to buy one, over many other choices. Some of us have left BMW, Benz, Volvo, Audi, Honda and Lexus, all top contenders for the new Leg GT, versus sticking with our historic brand. That says a lot for what a great job Suby did with new Leg and OB. 1. New sport seats are very nice and unique. Headrest similar to Benz shape and uniquely inset into seat back. Seat back shape has great shoulders. 2. New headlights are unique, falcon eye, and excellent function. 3. Hood sheet metal accent sculpture looks very aggressive in combo with headlights and air dam. 4. Grill inner trim is a bit generic, but front of car has its own character. 5. Interior door panel design IMO is better than BMW/Audi/Benz. Dash console is very BMW3, but cleaner, I love it. New Volvo door panels and dash are IMO very ugly, no design. 6. GT wagon backside is as good looking as new Volvo or better and side profile of GT is very contemporary without being extreme. New Volvo V50 looks much more like VW wagon, much less aerodynamic. Leg GT is not small, but looks sleek and sporting. I like that I can actually bring home a small piece of furniture in the Leg GT and cannot in the BMW/Audi. A list of the engineering improvements and more importantly, ways Leg GT is mechanically interesting to me than other brands would be a very long list. When I first saw the new Leg GT and read specs, I thought the Suby guys had read my mind. I really did not want the 325 wagon again or another Audi, but BMW was only choice till Leg GT. So, yes I too have a list of improvements, but I cannot wait to get my new GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']MtnSub, it's Zapatinas. We will indeed see what direction Subaru is moving. This is what is speculated. I've heard rumors that as early as MY06 the Legacy would adopt that front end too! I sure hope not. Wait and see how it's taken.[/quote] If that's the case, be glad we got 05s... :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 The new grill is not a pig snout. It is a 747 landing with flaps down in honor of Subaru's aerospace heritage or should I say legacy. Is the smile on the bottom of grill photo shop joke or for real? Okay, if you get rid of smile and giant suby badge and you make the pear blob more geometric and very thin, it could work. I did read that the new front end design was inspired by and intended to reflect areospace legacy. I must not be an engineering purist or brand evangelist, because the new BMW5 is an amazing car, but I could not stand the sight of its exterior or interior. Please "Sapatinas" give us design that generates car lust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 [quote name='MtnSub']The new grill is not a pig snout. It is a 747 landing with flaps down in honor of Subaru's aerospace heritage or should I say legacy. Is the smile on the bottom of grill photo shop joke or for real? Okay, if you get rid of smile and giant suby badge and you make the pear blob more geometric and very thin, it could work. I did read that the new front end design was inspired by and intended to reflect areospace legacy. I must not be an engineering purist or brand evangelist, because the new BMW5 is an amazing car, but I could not stand the sight of its exterior or interior. Please "Sapatinas" give us design that generates car lust.[/quote] Ugh, I loathe the new M5's design. The older gen looks so much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I am happy I got the current design of the Legacy, for so many reasons, mostly because of it's sharpness. The softer edges and appearance of the WRX's, both of our styles post GC/GM/GF just don't hold the same appeal. That grille has the softer appeal as well. I'm not quite sure why they keep trying it. Sharp, beautiful (in the eyes of the beholder), and with the look and stance of a carnivore are what gets my blood flowing. The B11S, B9SC, R1e, R2, none of them seem to capture the same appeal that the Legacy has for me, same with the 'I'm going to chew you up and spit you out' looks of the old GC/GM RS's. As for that aerospace heritage, they are mostly a subcontractor making wings or tails or things like that. I think it's been some time since they made a full aircraft on their own. I think they should be looking ahead to the future instead of back to the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I think just a couple of changes would alter perceptions about quality. Make things feel heavy even if they are not (an engineering challenge Subaru could meet) Put traditional window frames in the doors. Increase the resistance of controls. (Heft to turn signal, damping on stereo volume control). My 98 M3/4 has so much more tactile pleasure because the door has a vault like feel when you close it, rather than the light teflon feel of the Legacy. Same with the turn signal stalk. Finally, make the key heavier and of very high quality metal. The little things fool the brain into perceiving quality. A great example is the Damped passenger grab handle on the VW Golfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 The biggest reason for door-less window frames is so they can integrate the material that would hve been split between the door and chassis and make all part of the chassis, they can make the chassis MUCH stronger and safer that way as well as the overall weight sum less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 When they change the look and the feel of a car, WHO do they talk to, to get approval or feedback. As stated before, I have NEVER seen any surveys done by Subaru, Period! Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Adam, had only heard of one survey with anyone connected to the enthusiast community, supposedly it was in Cali where they were getting customer feedback on one of their products, but more recently have they started to take an interest in those who have been with their brand some time and why we flocked to them. That was the 'Impreza Product Line Discussion' thread in News/Rumors that has now been finished but still stickied up top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 It would be nice if the community at large was to get involved with some of the decisions or atleast give some feedback. Not sure if any car makers do this and unsure how it would work but surveys might be a good starting point. Thanks for the info Seth. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Great comments about tactile feel being weighted/dapened to increase perception of luxaray, BUT please do not sacrifice frameless doors. I hope Suby can keep some of its unique character that actually provides functional benefit. You can have frameless doors and still provide a stailess steel frame line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crapy Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 actually what are the differences between framed and frameless door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Oh, also, Subaru exclusively openly uses Edmunds.com also. They have recieved feedback and made changes to the Forester through that forum. I remember when asking on the Thursday night chat if anyone (of very different backgrounds) thought OnStar should be offered as an option, unanimous NO. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frontrangeSubie Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 The Legacy has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to be a "Luxury" car. Sure it's nice, cool, fast and has leather seats, but lacks a bunch of amentities that come standard in other BASE model cars. I'm not talking about high dollar options, I'm talking about base "comfort" items. Car and Driver rated the Legacy low in Amenties, and as it goes against other Luxury cars in future magazines, it will again be shot down and de-rated. The frameless windows will have to be tested...Car and Driver didn't like those, and I'll bet the future reviews won't either. Two of the new cars that I bought in the 80's had frameless windows, and they ended up floppy, broken and loose. I don't think the Legacy windows will turn out that bad, but time will tell....I will tell you this....I'm leary of them. Subaru will have to increase their quality control with these cars also....trunk gaps and hood gaps are uneven on my car, and some I have seen on the dealers lot..... Other than those few things, Subaru has a winner with this car. :D Mark 2005 Silver Legacy GT Lmt. Sedan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 OnStar is owned by GM I believe, be interesting if Subaru started up business with them. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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