Drove for many hours today, rants, raves, etc.

[gtguy]

[quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='gtguy']Technically, the suspension isn't too soft. The springs are too soft. The answer is simple for those seeking one: the pink STi springs from Japan, which should be close enough to the USDM strut damping rates to work pretty well. Personally, after seeing what my car can do in the hands of a good driver this weekend, I'm not touching a thing! :lol: I am even more impressed with this car, now. Note that I have Dunlop 9000s on the car, rather than the stock RE92s, however. Kevin[/quote] The pink springs might overwork our USDM-valved struts though eh?[/quote] Good question, DM. If we can make any inferences from the performance of the pink STi springs on the stock WRX struts, then no. I'm betting that the Legacy pink springs are probabaly 25-30% stiffer than the USDM springs, which would be just fine. No, I'm not going to try it, anticipating your next question. Kevin

[Ken]

[quote name='Deer Killer']The heated seat turns itself off after it gets to a good temperature, and then stays off for a really, really, really long time. After driving for 2 or so hours it's nice to have it hot to relax you muscles.. but it just won't stay on, even if you toggle to of and back to max. Broken or by design?[/quote] All of the heating elements (defrosters, seats) turn themselves off after 5 mins by default. The owners manual tells you how to change this so that they will stay on indefinately. RTFM :wink:

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='gtguy'][quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='gtguy']Technically, the suspension isn't too soft. The springs are too soft. The answer is simple for those seeking one: the pink STi springs from Japan, which should be close enough to the USDM strut damping rates to work pretty well. Personally, after seeing what my car can do in the hands of a good driver this weekend, I'm not touching a thing! :lol: I am even more impressed with this car, now. Note that I have Dunlop 9000s on the car, rather than the stock RE92s, however. Kevin[/quote] The pink springs might overwork our USDM-valved struts though eh?[/quote] Good question, DM. If we can make any inferences from the performance of the pink STi springs on the stock WRX struts, then no. I'm betting that the Legacy pink springs are probabaly 25-30% stiffer than the USDM springs, which would be just fine. No, I'm not going to try it, anticipating your next question. Kevin[/quote] You read minds! I might try it....pending vendor and price... :twisted: Maybe if a vendor needs a test mule...er...monkey....they could give me a bit of a deal.... :?:

[racerdave]

[quote name='gtguy'] Personally, after seeing what my car can do in the hands of a good driver this weekend, I'm not touching a thing! :lol: I am even more impressed with this car, now. Kevin[/quote] What's this mean? Can you elaborate? Did you autocross it? Just wondering...

[WRXTom]

Not to open up a can of worms, but IMO suspension tuning for a street driven car is largely a "feel mod". Most drivers, even experienced drivers, don't get beyond 7/10ths on the public road. Nor should they unless they are lucky enough to drive on roads where they can speed safely. Even 7/10ths in a Legacy is fast. Even now, doubling the speed limit is often well within the bounds of the Legacy with stock suspension and upgraded tires. I am not looking for the limits to be raised even higher. You can go directly to jail as it is :) The suspension "feel" I am looking for (in no particular order) better control of body motions, less front tire scrub in turns (declining radius in particular), less float over highway undulations when at higher speeds, better back end stability, etc. My suspension setting preferences are just different than what Subaru chose for the North American market. JDM Legacy GT sounds about right for me. Spec B would likely be over the top. I'm not dissin' the Legacy...the car works just fine. Even the areas I want to address it does quite well. But, for me, a tighter set up is more interesting and more fun to drive. I drive a lot (9000 kms on the Legacy so far) and like to make my time behind the wheel as much fun as possible. If it is as simple as a set of springs I will be thrilled. Tom

[gtguy]

[quote name='racerdave'][quote name='gtguy'] Personally, after seeing what my car can do in the hands of a good driver this weekend, I'm not touching a thing! :lol: I am even more impressed with this car, now. Kevin[/quote] What's this mean? Can you elaborate? Did you autocross it? Just wondering...[/quote] No, I just let a friend, who is a far better driver than I, have at my wagon. It wasn't scary, but it was illuminating. The other thing to note is that limits vary. Someone's 8/10ths is someone else's 5/10ths. We were quite comfortably within the car's limits, as I was mostly interested in suspension tuning, bumpy corners, etc, etc. Dang, that car is good. He got used to the 15:1 rack a lot sooner than I did, and it surprised me how steerable the car is with the throttle. Just little touches, not lurid slides or drifts, which should not be done on public roads. Oh...and I need more skills. :lol: Kevin

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Ken'] All of the heating elements (defrosters, seats) turn themselves off after 5 mins by default. The owners manual tells you how to change this so that they will stay on indefinately. RTFM :wink:[/quote] Eh, I already went through the whole thing previously. Too bad it's so frickin big.. but thanks.

[Xaqtly]

I think a good upgrade would be the pink springs and shocks. Do them both together. And I disagree that double the speed limit is "well within" the bounds of a stock Legacy - at 120 MPH, it feels very floaty and that's not a good thing. We are talking about personal preference here though, obviously there are tradeoffs, usually involving sacrificing ride quality. I think stiffer shocks and somewhat higher springrates would be perfect for this car with the addition of a slightly stiffer rear swaybar. Yes you can steer the car with the throttle but it's all understeer and lift-throttle, not power on oversteer. I'd like to be able to induce oversteer while I'm still on the throttle, because with the way this car rockets out of apexes, it would be perfect. I have a second car that's being built as a race car, so I don't need to do that with my Legacy - but I do think the stock suspension is a little soft. Yes, even the shocks. An OEM solution like the pink springs and shocks seems like it would be a good fix.

[WRXTom]

[quote]I disagree that double the speed limit is "well within" the bounds of a stock Legacy - at 120 MPH, it feels very floaty and that's not a good thing.[/quote] I should have been more clear. Double the limit was just a generalization that won't always. My comment was related more to cornering speeds on secondary roads where the posted limit is lower. I don't drive 120 mph...often. Tom

[WRXTom]

[quote]Someone's 8/10ths is someone else's 5/10ths. [/quote] Truer words were never spoken. Tom

[gtguy]

[quote name='Xaqtly']I think a good upgrade would be the pink springs and shocks. Do them both together. And I disagree that double the speed limit is "well within" the bounds of a stock Legacy - at 120 MPH, it feels very floaty and that's not a good thing. We are talking about personal preference here though, obviously there are tradeoffs, usually involving sacrificing ride quality. I think stiffer shocks and somewhat higher springrates would be perfect for this car with the addition of a slightly stiffer rear swaybar. Yes you can steer the car with the throttle but it's all understeer and lift-throttle, not power on oversteer. I'd like to be able to induce oversteer while I'm still on the throttle, because with the way this car rockets out of apexes, it would be perfect. I have a second car that's being built as a race car, so I don't need to do that with my Legacy - but I do think the stock suspension is a little soft. Yes, even the shocks. An OEM solution like the pink springs and shocks seems like it would be a good fix.[/quote] First off, at present there are just pink springs. There are Spec B suspension takeoffs from Japan that are often available on Yahoo Japan. I'd wager that the USDM struts are fine. On my piloted flog, my wagon could indeed be steered with the throttle. It was quite surprising, honestly. Mind you, not in a power-on oversteer way, which I would consider to be an unfortunate, rather than desirable handling attribute. This was more of a little goose to set the back end up for corner exit. It's nice to know the GT has enough torque to be able to do that. It's also worth noting that different people have different tolerances for suspension stiffness. I had the SPT suspension kit on my WRX wagon, and while it was nice for around town, I wouldn't want to take a long road trip with it. Others have STis for daily drivers. :lol: An "ideal" suspension setup for one person might be too stiff for another, is what I'm trying to say. And Subaru, in tuning the GT, had to make the car's ride quality sufficiently nice that real people (non-enthusiast) wouldn't freak out, yet firm enough that enthusiasts could take it out for a test-drive and say "Wow, I want this." I'm pretty amazed at the job they did, actually. Feeling what I felt, for me (as all things should be prefaced, as there are as many different driving styles as there are drivers) there is no way I would want more rear bar. I would try less front bar first, as in what was done with the SPT kit from Subaru. I do wish that Subaru had made rear camber adjustable, but that's a rarity. I'm not sure about the multilink setup but I imagine camber bolts would be able to solve that one pretty easily. Kevin

[GTCanada]

[quote]It's also worth noting that different people have different tolerances for suspension stiffness. I had the SPT suspension kit on my WRX wagon, and while it was nice for around town, I wouldn't want to take a long road trip with it. Others have STis for daily drivers. [/quote] Agreed. I always try to include caveats in my posts that any preferences and/or requirements are mine and may not represent those of others. My Sti'd WRX wagon was my daily driver and, at the time, the performance was worth the compromises. But, for the Legacy I'm looking for a set up with somewhat less stiffness since it sees more family duty. Tom In case anyone was wondering, the WRXTom username didn't make much sense anymore so I changed to GTCanada...I like the car, I like the country. I also like single malt, cigars and women (my wife in particular) but that would have made for a very long username. :)

[racerdave]

[quote name='gtguy'] No, I just let a friend, who is a far better driver than I, have at my wagon. It wasn't scary, but it was illuminating. The other thing to note is that limits vary. Someone's 8/10ths is someone else's 5/10ths. We were quite comfortably within the car's limits, as I was mostly interested in suspension tuning, bumpy corners, etc, etc. Dang, that car is good. He got used to the 15:1 rack a lot sooner than I did, and it surprised me how steerable the car is with the throttle. Just little touches, not lurid slides or drifts, which should not be done on public roads. Oh...and I need more skills. :lol: Kevin[/quote] I see... good to hear the car's attitude is easily altered. That's good. And the skills part, that can be honed. Autocrossing the GT might help those skills. ;)

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Ken'] All of the heating elements (defrosters, seats) turn themselves off after 5 mins by default. The owners manual tells you how to change this so that they will stay on indefinately. RTFM :wink:[/quote] Wait a second, I'm looking at the seat heater page right now, it doesn't say that for me. I knew I already read this part. The defroster pages say THOSE can be changed by a "subaru dealer", (also btw 15 minutes). That's hardly telling you how. What page are you looking at, and what does it say? That's certainly blatant abuse of RTFM, and makes people who say it look like more off a......

[Xaqtly]

[quote name='gtguy']First off, at present there are just pink springs. There are Spec B suspension takeoffs from Japan that are often available on Yahoo Japan. I'd wager that the USDM struts are fine.[/quote] Yeah that's what I wasn't sure about. I always tend to be wary about putting higher rate springs on stock shocks. [quote name='gtguy']On my piloted flog, my wagon could indeed be steered with the throttle. It was quite surprising, honestly. Mind you, not in a power-on oversteer way, which I would consider to be an unfortunate, rather than desirable handling attribute. This was more of a little goose to set the back end up for corner exit. It's nice to know the GT has enough torque to be able to do that.[/quote] It's possible that the wagon is more tail-happy than the sedan - that's the case with the WRX wagon and sedan. If I take a long sweeper to the edge of the tires' adhesion, my car will understeer before it does anything else. Granted it's still a lot closer to neutral than a lot of other cars, but it still requires lifting off the throttle to get the rear to step out even a little bit. It's very easy to modulate at the edge like that, and it can be done smoothly, but you have to lift off to do it, and you lose speed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about it. I know they have to make compromises in the suspension to try to please everybody, I'm just saying I'm probably going to tweak mine a bit and why.