mkI Peugeot 106 rallye

[PPower]

OK, so here's my old car. Like most things French, it was a love/hate thing. Being one of 5 in the country didn't help for access to parts, but it was a great handling machine. I've read that handling wise, it could keep up with Lamborghinis, but maybe that is just to show how bad Lamborghini handling is with that snap oversteer. The rallye model had a stripped interior (not even a glove box), manual steering, windows, no A/C, or anything. It was done with Talbot Racing colors & stripes, but mine had the original stripe stickers taken off of the hood corner. The handling was great, and I did numerous 4 wheel drifts in the thing. The scariest/funnest was with myself and dad in front and my wife and mom in back flying on mountain roads like nothing seen in the US. More like Japanese roads, but not as nice. Luckily, they didn't realize when we did a bit of a drift around the apex of a turn on a trip to a live volcano.

http://www.legacysti.com/files/dsc00246.jpg

[EJ20H-TT]

Looks a fun car.

[PPower]

Thanks, it was a good fun car that made you feel like you were going faster than you really were. That is really a great thing to keep you out of some trouble. Of course, it wasn't nearly as fun as the Impreza GTs I drove there.

[EJ20H-TT]

Thats the thing you can have a different kind of fun in a little car.

[Dr. Zevil]

Wow.. that thing looks like serious go-kart'n fun. I imagine it was like driving a low profile 4-wheeler with a body shell. Sweet!

[team23jordan]

i'd like to have a car like that to play around on the weekends :o

[PPower]

Thanks, guys. It was a lot of fun playing a little rally speed racer. We still kick ourselves because we just missed out on a gorgeous white one a few months before we bought the black one. The white one was pristine and had A/C. Man, I can never have another car without A/C. Even though the weather was in the 70s-low 80s every day, the sun got dang hot beating through the glass. Still, it was 100 rumbling hp in about 1700lbs. Good fun out of a 1.3L 4. I would definitely like to get a Miata for a project car to get relatively the same experience. Slap an AVO turbo kit on there and take off. 8)

[GBY]

I'm dissapointed that we don't get Peugeot/Renault/Fiat/Alfa Romeo marques in the US. I guess it's partly because of America's obsession with Super-Size. Alfa is coming though 8) Dave.

[PPower]

Alfa is the only one of those brands that I can see being viable in the US. And with them, they still need to bring out the next generation of models. For the US, looks can be distinctive, but not odd, and that seems to be a problem for some of those companies at least in the past. Another thing is engine size. Alfa's high output V6 in their GTA modesl is only 250hp out of 3.0L. Pretty common these days. Peugeot makes some decent cars but the diminuative size and low output engines would make them dreadful in US traffic. There just isn't a need for compact shapes of hatchbacks, so 5 door Peugeot 206/307 and Clio 5doors are almost useless in the US market. The Jetta is much more practical than a 5 door Golf, and that's just the way it is across the board. My Pug would have been scary on a US highway. 100kph (62mph) was turning a loud 4000rpm, and it felt like 100mph. Of the Frenchies, Renault is the best suited to the US market, so at least they have Nissan to funnel cars over if a business case can be made for it and crash/EPA standards met. The Renault Clio is one car that I wish Nissan would sell in the US. Actually, they sell a butt-ugly Clio sedan as a Nissan down here. A Clio 172 Cup would be great for an under $20k hatch.

[GBY]

[quote name='PPower']There just isn't a need for compact shapes of hatchbacks, so 5 door Peugeot 206/307 and Clio 5doors are almost useless in the US market. The Jetta is much more practical than a 5 door Golf, and that's just the way it is across the board. A Clio 172 Cup would be great for an under $20k hatch.[/quote] And there is a need for Soccer Mom's to be driving 2 kids around in Suburbans and Expeditions? All the european makes I mentioned have Golf/Jetta sized models with 130-140 hp motors that happily do 80-90 mph with ease all day long on the freeways of europe. The latest model Jetta has a 2.0 liter 115 hp motor and has sold very well here in California, they are good in traffic and make perfect commuter cars. Hatchbacks are vastly more practical than sedans, not only do they have more luggage space but fold the back seats down and you can fit all sorts of things into them that you'd never fit into a sedan. Far more practical. And BTW, 250hp from the Alfa 3.0 is impressive, BMW gets 225hp out of their 3.0 liter and Infiniti needs 3.5 liters to make 260hp in the G35. I don't want to get into a pissing match with you PP, I appreciate most of what you have to say on this forum.

[PPower]

I understand what you are saying. Those cars are much more mainstream down here where I live. You're right that 250hp is impressive, but my point is that it's becoming more and more common by likes of now Subaru, Honda and others. The GTA is essentially their STi or ///M version. For the US, that engine would need to be their standard top of the line and not just a special sport edition. I absolutely LOVE Alfas. The 156 Sportwagon is the most gorgeous wagon available, and the only one available with the sequential tranny like in stablemate Ferrari. SOME Pugs could do acceptably well in real world driving, but overall, they wouldn't survive in the US. The tastes are just very different, and the 5door hatchbacks which do so well for them would not be bought by most Americans. They have trunkspace a tad bigger than a new Mini. The traffic density and even the size of lanes is so much different in the US, that I really think that having a short car (hatchback) isn't perceived as the same advantage as it is in other countries. I prefer the shape of hatchbacks, and they are normally more practical. As for cargo capacity, they can have more if you put the rear seats down, but the trunk is inevitably smaller in a hatchback than in a sedan. In the Renault Clio/Nissan Platina sedan, they just stick a trunk to the back end of hatchback, and it looks AWFUL. The Golf/Jetta is really the best designed hatchback/sedan combo. Both are great looking, and people can choose the style that suits their needs-desires ;) best. Then again, just because I see it this way, I can still be completely off base. I don't see anybody pounding down my door to come tell them how to run their car company. :lol:

[PPower]

oops, I'm wrong. Besides the 156 Sportswagon, we can get the BMW 325 and 330 Touring with SMGI like was used on earlier Euro M3's. I guess the 146 GTA would be the only hatch with that type tranny available though.

[GBY]

I lived in London for 4 years and was born and grew up in New Zealand before that so my outlook is I guess a bit european. I never owned a car in London (pointless) but often rented the type of cars I've been talking about for trips here and there. I've been in the US for 5 years and am still not convinced the excess size of vehicles is neccessary. For example, I have 2 kids and also have 3 friends that have 2 kids. All 3 of my friends own mini-vans but I happily fit my family and anything I'd need to carry 99.9% of the time into my WRX Wagon. If I had 3 kids (I'm not that crazy) then I'd need a bigger backseat (New Legacy or similar size) but only at the point of having 4 kids do you really need a mini-van. Okay, I'm becoming pedantic. I'll stop now.

[evolutionmovement]

It wasn't too long ago in this country where having five kids was normal and the most they had then were inefficiently packaged wagons. People are too fat and afraid of getting hurt now so that's what they need big vehicles - the kids and the pomeranian are just an excuse to justify their purchase. I'll stop before I go too far... Steve

[PPower]

Gumby, do you notice the lanes being bigger in the US? I've never been to Europe myself, but I lived in Costa Rica for five years and then since July here. No car here since taxis are too cheap and our time here is limited. Anyway, I really notice the US roads feeling so much wider. I mean, the idea of a full size truck is ridiculous. They seem to barely fit on the road when you happen to see one. Anyway, I have just ASSUMED that many European roads are similar. Since traffic in most cities isn't anything like the type of traffic and tight maneuvering in other countries, small isn't a necessity. I think that it's more of a case in the US that SMALL isn't a necessity, so they get the roomiest thing they can get. It's not that they (americans in general) need something large, but they don't need small, so large and roomy becomes an option. Do you see the perspective difference?

[GBY]

Overall the lanes are wider within cities due to the fact that the US is part of the New World and most of the infrastructure was built with the automobile in existence. Freeways/Motorways seem to be the same width from what I remember (semi's are the same width both sides of the pond?) The rest of the world gets on just fine without full-size pick-ups, yes they're nice but unnecessary. BTW, they would fit fine on European roads but aren't required. SUV's are less space efficient and use more gas than mini-vans, people who buy them because they think they are safe need to be re-educated. They are dumb unless your property is only accessible by 4WD or you like to tow 6000lbs, 99% of SUV owners fall into neither category. Yes they are nice in the snow but I'd take a good handling FWD car with snow tires over a lumbering 4WD SUV anytime and of course a Subie over either :D These types of vehicles consume vast amounts of Gas and therefore do nothing to avert the US's dependency on oil from the Persian Gulf. If every vehicle in the US averaged 2 1/2 mpg better than they did today then we wouldn't need that oil. Thankfully manufacturers are now developing hybrid SUV's that reportedly get close to 30 mpg. Have you read about the latest diesel technology being used in Europe? Diesel engines are getting closer and closer to gasoline engines in terms of power output and are of course far more fuel efficient, they have filters that help eliminate the pollution problem although they require a higher grade of diesel than is available in the US. All this probably makes me sound like a Greenie, just trying to stimulate some thought. Yes PP, I see the perspective difference.

[GBY]

Just realised how OT I've gone. I like the Pug you had PP.

[PPower]

hehe, it's "my thread" ;) OT is fine with me. I find the differences between the different countries to be quite fascinating. I was thinking about this over the weekend. "We" understand the performance benefits of a lighter car. However, I wonder if the general US public would prefer a heavier car. The reason being for "safety" when crashing against another heavy car. I know plenty of people in the US who still prefer driving big SUVs knowing that their crash ratings are worse than cars because the heavy curb weight will give them an inertia advantage when hitting a smaller/lighter car.

[GBY]

[quote name='PPower']I know plenty of people in the US who still prefer driving big SUVs knowing that their crash ratings are worse than cars because the heavy curb weight will give them an inertia advantage when hitting a smaller/lighter car.[/quote] They have no doubt got used to holding their cell phones tighter as they plough over Sentra's and Civic's, wouldn't want to drop the phone. It always seems to me that the Tahoe/Suburban/Expedition/Excursion crew are more often than not talking on the phone as they guide their vehicles down the freeway. Someone should do a study on cell phone usage while driving, Cars v SUV's.

[PPower]

lol good point. You are probably right as more sensible people will be driving the cars. It's nice to not even have a cell phone to worry about.

[KevinSoD]

reminds me of my old MY86 Fiat Uno. 999cc of FURY! 45mpg on a 4 speed car, on LEADED gas :lol: Top Speed 103mph (shakking apart)

[GBY]

I had a Uno 70S 1300cc 5sp, only 40 mpg. Identifying feature was a line of rust along the leading edge of the sunroof and the car was only 4 years old. Used to tow a 14 ft. rigid hull inflatable with 30 horse yamaha 100 miles to the beach with it, it was strictly a 4 speed when towing.

[PPower]

Though I was in city driving all the time, I was doing good to get about 23mpg.

[SUBE555]

I loved my good ol 90 Geo Prism back in HS, 100hp & 2300Lbs IIRC. Got 30-something on the highway with it (always got good mileage because it shook like hell above 75. :D) I did a LOT of stuff that car was never intended to do like sliding sideways on gravel pk lots, sliding sideways on dry pavement, and all kinds of other things. Probably was a reason why I wore the front tires out in I think 5k miles (I think they were some store brand $25 70k-mile tires) and I never did burnouts with it. :D Man did I have fun with that car, more than I ever thought when I actually had that car.