Latest rumors of what won't be available

[Dr. Zevil]

[quote name='gtguy'] ....print out a nice, glossy pic of the back end of the Legacy GT, and tape it to your dashboard in anticipation. [/quote] OMG... too funny, I almost wet myself. :lol::lol: Seriously, I think that Subaru is breaking new ground with their car models. This person is obviously a typical american consumer (nothing wrong with that) that carries certain misconceptions about subaru as a brand and the cars and value they offer. It may take some time before people understand just exaclty what is being offered to them at such a great price. Before long you will see many more manufactures try to "emmulate" subaru engineering. You already see it with the addition of psuedo-AWD models in the future, and models that are meant to compete with the excellent 4 door sports sedans that they have brought stateside (WRS, STi). For me it's a no brainer.. I live in a climate which AWD is an incredible advantage, plus I get some whoopass performance. With the new legacy I can add luxury to that list as well. Did I mention a luxo-sedan that will probably do 0-60 in about 5 seconds (estimated 5.5 by SOA but they are usually conservative)?

[gtguy]

My fondest wish is that people focus on what the Legacy GT HAS, rather than what it doesn't have. A car will always lack something that someone deems would make it "perfect." But when you look at what it in fact has, it's a very impressive package, something that is evident when you price out other cars and compare them to what you get from the GT. Kevin

[GBY]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']Did I mention a luxo-sedan that will probably do 0-60 in about 5 seconds (estimated 5.5 by SOA but they are usually conservative)?[/quote] And a high 13's 1/4 mile.

[Tin_pusher]

Where are you guys getting these 0-60 times? I've read some reviews on the other threads on this site and they all say 0-60 "observed" in about 8 seconds. What gives? Also, IMO there are two Subaru camps here. The old schoolers that know Subaru's past, ie the economy, low cost, lack of features. And the new schoolers, people that have been drawn to Subaru by their marketing and descriptions of the car. It seems to me that Subaru in fact IS trying to move the Legacy upscale, but just can't quite figure out how to get it there. There are people on this board (myself included) that want to buy this car if it lives up to they hype, and some creature comforts which have come to be expected in a $30k car are included. Time will tell.

[Dr. Zevil]

It was either on the need-desire website or somewhere during the release that Subaru claimed 0-60 in 5.5 sec. Now, some of us who are number crunchers thought that if this sedan was to go that fast that the HP numbers were conservative or innacurate. They claimed the WRX could do 0-60 in 6.3 sec(?) i believe.. while independent mags got the car to go it in 5.7 sec. etc. If I come across the claims I will post here. I do agree with you that Subaru has it's loyalists and I may bo one of them. But moving Subaru up market will consist of higher quality interiors and an improved driver's experience. For those of you who haven't driven a subie it's truly is intended to be a driver's car. This is why the WRX is so brilliant. If the GT can pull this off while increasint eh creature comforts without losing feel for the driving experience then it will truly be the best car I have driven.

[questmgd]

I'm sorry if I offended any one. I did not post meaning to dis the Legacy at all. I'm just saying that I feel that a lot of people's perception of a Subaru is not as high as that of other japanese manufacturers. It doesn't help THOSE people's perception of the Legacy when it is a turbo-4 and a 5-speed. A lot of people consider that for lower priced (cheaper) cars. No HID, Premium Stereo, etc, add to the misconception. Please don't get me wrong. The reason I am interested and have been reading through the forums is that I think that the ideas incorporated in the new Legacy are great. I expect the car to be great. The car is lightweight, has a proven power engine with good power curve. Design seems fresher than other cars out there. Both the interior and exterior design. I currently have FWD and I miss AWD. I just wanted to point out that Subaru doesn't have much of a reputation outside of Subaru fans, and Subaru of America seems to be nothing to make the Legacy stick out in the crowded ~$30K market segment. I need a four door soon, and I am still seriously interested in the Legacy. I would like a 6-speed, HID, and power rear seats, but the lack of those options do not make me exclude the car. On the other hand, it does make me look at higher price classes to see if I can find a good value in another range. This is the only car that I am considering in its price range, I have gave up on all the other manufacturers to offer such a car. Sorry if I upset anyone. No offense intended. I am still a fan of this new Legacy.

[Dr. Zevil]

I admit that I might have gotten on your case a bit hard. I have said all along that it's poop that Subaru doesn't offer all these things as options. For me the 6MT isn't a big deal, but I can't understand why they don't offer the HID and NAV as simple options. This would create a wider price range for the car while still making it affordable to Joe Shmoe who doesn't need all the bells and whistles. As far as the boxer 4, I think they are great! Sure you can put an H6 in the car but it will be heavier and slower. It will also be much easier to mod the 2.5T for a few more horses :twisted: I think that the car is going to be incredible and all the speculation and frustration by all of us is simply because we can't wait to hear more details and drive the car ourselves. I think we are all on edge :lol:

[gtguy]

[quote name='questmgd']I'm sorry if I offended any one. I did not post meaning to dis the Legacy at all. I'm just saying that I feel that a lot of people's perception of a Subaru is not as high as that of other japanese manufacturers. It doesn't help THOSE people's perception of the Legacy when it is a turbo-4 and a 5-speed. A lot of people consider that for lower priced (cheaper) cars. No HID, Premium Stereo, etc, add to the misconception. Please don't get me wrong. The reason I am interested and have been reading through the forums is that I think that the ideas incorporated in the new Legacy are great. I expect the car to be great. The car is lightweight, has a proven power engine with good power curve. Design seems fresher than other cars out there. Both the interior and exterior design. I currently have FWD and I miss AWD. I just wanted to point out that Subaru doesn't have much of a reputation outside of Subaru fans, and Subaru of America seems to be nothing to make the Legacy stick out in the crowded ~$30K market segment. I need a four door soon, and I am still seriously interested in the Legacy. I would like a 6-speed, HID, and power rear seats, but the lack of those options do not make me exclude the car. On the other hand, it does make me look at higher price classes to see if I can find a good value in another range. This is the only car that I am considering in its price range, I have gave up on all the other manufacturers to offer such a car. Sorry if I upset anyone. No offense intended. I am still a fan of this new Legacy.[/quote] I don't think anyone's bent out of shape, man. Sometimes text can't convey nuance, which is unfortunate. I think that some of us came here from other places because this is a more positive, thoughtful place in which, even when there are disagreements, they are handled well. It's a great place, and welcome to it. I think that people (certainly I was) want to put things in perspective, is all. You're right in that the Legacy GT offers excellent value. As for what will be available for the options-wise, etc...we'll have to wait and see. Kevin

[GBY]

[quote name='gtguy'] I think that some of us came here from other places because this is a more positive, thoughtful place in which, even when there are disagreements, they are handled well. It's a great place, and welcome to it. [/quote] Precisely why I'm here.

[Tide]

While I think we'd all like the competitors to the Legacy to be the BMW 3 series, G35, and A4, its more likely Subaru is aiming for the Accord, Camry, Altima, etc... It's certainly a bigger marketplace and where they fair better point for point. Though most of us here would rather have an STi Legacy with 300/300 with 6MT, Nav, and other goodies. I will most likely get a Legacy with just about every option they allow us to get. So, the more available, the more $$$ they get from me.

[Dr. Zevil]

I hope this wing will be available. I think it's sweet!

[gtguy]

[quote name='Tide']Though most of us here would rather have an STi Legacy with 300/300 with 6MT, Nav, and other goodies. I will most likely get a Legacy with just about every option they allow us to get. So, the more available, the more $$$ they get from me.[/quote] I'm glad you said "most of us," because I wouldn't. More horsepower is more expensive to insure, and isn't really that much better. Nav is expensive, and a 6MT just means more shifting. I learned a pretty valuable lesson with my WRX wagon, which is that driven at 6/10ths, that car is too fast to be among the normal world. The Legacy will have more power, earlier in the powerband, and be about the same weight. I'm totally down with that. :D Kevin

[SUBE555]

Tide, I like your marketplace comparison, to the Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas, etc. I've been saying that for a while, but people still don't listen. They're trying to compare content, not price and value which is where the new GT really excels. Even if its a couple grand more than the V6 models of the other mfgs, those still won't be nearly as fun to drive or have the all-season capability the Legs will have. Yeah I'd love an STi Legacy and use its vapabilities at sanctioned locations when possible, but the std GT is one heck of a lot more car than now and will be an even better value, particularly if it only costs some 3-5% more. :P

[Dr. Zevil]

I was kinda hoping that Subaru would rate the car way lower with the power figures ala Forester XT.. my insurance bill would appreciate that. :D

[SUBE555]

Hey, from what I've been told, WRX's are generally rated lower on insurance the the GC/GM RS's! Get a Wagon and tell them its for utility, they love that! I was just inquiring about a WRX Wagon last year and said Wagon for utility and they were impressed and said its a great little car for that. Not much more than my 7 year old Legacy GT. About 20% more, but understand I pay like $450-500 a year, and it would jump to ~$600 by their estimate. (Under mom's great educator insurance still and I don't know if they added my good student discount even!)

[PPower]

[quote name='Tide']While I think we'd all like the competitors to the Legacy to be the BMW 3 series, G35, and A4, its more likely Subaru is aiming for the Accord, Camry, Altima, etc... It's certainly a bigger marketplace and where they fair better point for point. Though most of us here would rather have an STi Legacy with 300/300 with 6MT, Nav, and other goodies. I will most likely get a Legacy with just about every option they allow us to get. So, the more available, the more $$$ they get from me.[/quote] I can't agree with the competition being Accord & Camry cars. They are much larger interior-wise and are catered to attract the greatest percentage of people possible. As a niche company, Subaru has to be more focused. Comparing to the Mazda 6 and TSX are probably the closest competition from its homeland, and it is therefore easy to see how the Legacy mops the floor with them. It spanks them so greatly in JDM-land performance wise that "here" it is easier to compare them with higher priced cars performance wise even if features, price, and quality don't match up. It's hard to figure out who SoA views as its competition. I personally hope that it's not Camry/Accord types as that will greatly degrade the Legacy in time to be just another cookie cutter car but with AWD standard. The Legacy is going to have size limitations since the JDM version is size-tax limited. European sports sedan types are the only ones that have been able to sell well despite smaller than class average dimensions (BMW namely). Why? The driving experience is worth it, and the smaller size can and does relate to curb weight. Subaru is on a good path. Keep it up! (and pick up the pace already!) :D

[gtguy]

Something interesting: Last night, walking back from dinner with the wife, I saw a few cars. First, a Mercedes with halogens, throwing out a huge, white blanket of light. Great lamp/projector design, apparently. Then came an Acura with HIDs. Bluish/white, and not as much light. Then came a domestic (Pontiac, I think) with an amount of light that was laughable. I'm very pleased with the halogen decision on the Legacy. I was out the other night with my Prodrive projectors (Hella lenses, Philips VisionPlus bulbs), and man, that light rocks. Can't wait can't wait can't wait. Oh, for anyone interested, my plan is to hit the Chicago Auto Show on Friday afternoon. No kids, very few tire-kickers. Kevin

[racerdave]

I darn well hope HID's are at least an option. If they're not standard, fine. But make them a standalone option. :)

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']It was either on the need-desire website or somewhere during the release that Subaru claimed 0-60 in 5.5 sec. Now, some of us who are number crunchers thought that if this sedan was to go that fast that the HP numbers were conservative or innacurate. They claimed the WRX could do 0-60 in 6.3 sec(?) i believe.. while independent mags got the car to go it in 5.7 sec. etc.[/quote] I believe the 5.5 second time is for the JDM 2.0 Twin scroll turbo 280hp model, afaik there have been no official numbers for the USDM.

[Dr. Zevil]

Nope.. that was an "estimated" time of the USDM 2.5T..

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']Nope.. that was an "estimated" time of the USDM 2.5T..[/quote] By who and where? link?

[Dr. Zevil]

They changed the need-desire website. It claimed an estimated time of 5.5 seconds.. but have changed it to "fast enough to make a muscle car blush" :roll: whatever that means.. i know it was there, i checked that site repeatedly upon the initial announcement.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']They changed the need-desire website. It claimed an estimated time of 5.5 seconds.. but have changed it to "fast enough to make a muscle car blush" :roll: whatever that means.. i know it was there, i checked that site repeatedly upon the initial announcement.[/quote] They also changed the caption to "some images are non-us spec". If I had to use one word to describe current legacy info, it would be "shady".

[SUBE555]

I think it will be quick, reflash the ECU alone and it will be really capable. With the right bolt-ons and ECU tuning it may be able to hit a high 12 in the 400m dash and capable of sub-5's. That's with easily less than $2k in work. (I know mine won't stay stock for too long when I get it as I will have the money to do things to it.) Stock, I am going to guess same ballpark as a Forester XT give/take .2 in the 0-60 and within .4sec +/- in the 1/4. That's in respect to C&D's FXT 0-60 claim of 5.3sec, and 400m figures of 13.8sec @ 97mph.

[Dr. Zevil]

[quote name='Deer Killer'][quote name='Dr. Zevil']They changed the need-desire website. It claimed an estimated time of 5.5 seconds.. but have changed it to "fast enough to make a muscle car blush" :roll: whatever that means.. i know it was there, i checked that site repeatedly upon the initial announcement.[/quote] They also changed the caption to "some images are non-us spec". If I had to use one word to describe current legacy info, it would be "shady".[/quote] I always knew the images were either EDM or JDM. That was not cool, but they did release that number (est.) when they revealed the engine specs.. I can assure you of that. Now they seem to have repealed those numbers as we get closer to the time of "actual" specs.