jdm ej20x motor for '05 Outback XT. Need some help tuning a jdm ECU..

[RumblyXT]

Hello everyone,

My '05 Outback XT ej255 motor recently got damaged due to a spun rod bearing.

I bought a jdm ej20x engine for it, but they are dual AVCS motors.

iwire makes an engine harness merge kit to get both exhaust AVCS camshaft sensors working, but they said I'd need a jdm ECU.

Do you guys know anyone that could tune an '05 '06 Legacy GT JDM ECU? They would need to program the immobilizer system to get the ECU working that way the 20x motor could control both the Intake and Exhaust AVCS?

Btw, my car came modified with a catless DP, CAI and a Grimspeed boost controller. I was never given the tune or Access port for it, so I honestly don't have any idea what tune it has, not sure if this could complicate things a bit.

I'm not looking for crazy power, just want to the get the ej20x motor properly running on my car. Last thing I want is for it to get damaged too.

What do you guys recommend I do in my case? What can be some of my options?

Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by RumblyXT

[m sprank]

With the current conditions in the world of aftermarket parts, installs and tuning you are going to have your work cut out for you finding a tuner that will touch that job.  You will need to research emissions laws in your state and if they follow CARB regulations and to what extent.  Then look local for a tuner using EcuTeK or opensource as the JDM ECM will not be supported by Cobb. 

[RumblyXT]

Yes I know. I have have done quite some research on what’s needed and it’s pretty difficult finding someone wanting to get involved with this job.

Thankfully I’m in good old FL, where there are no requirements for emissions testing.
There’s always someone who can do it, it will take some time to find them, but God willing I will be able to.

Thank you for your help.

[m sprank]

As the tuner can now be held liable for any federal emissions violation what you seak is very "speak easy".  Good luck to you on you endeavor.  I wish you only the best.

[RumblyXT]

If that were the case how does the government allow to bring so many jdm motors/vehicles to the states?

It’s interesting they would consider it a federal violation when in Japan they use much higher octane 97/98 and get rid of those motors very early on, sometimes at 50/60k miles..

I have seen plenty of jdm vehicles circulating the streets here in South FL. I wonder if they are all in violation.

I will be keeping/adhering to USDM emission/regulations.

Thank you for your input.

Edited February 20, 2023 by RumblyXT

[m sprank]

Jdm cars for the most part are and have been "illegal" for ever.  I know many that were confiscated.  It was a difficult web of laws to convert a Silvia for US regulations.  

Jdm motors are a different story.

Japan uses a different method to determine octane rating. It is not US 97/98 oct.  

I have not kept up on import laws as the real JDM craze died in the early 00s.  But emissions regulations and EPA involvement has dramatically increased in the past 5 years.  Cali and CARB have been on a mission to stop vehicle modification. Most of the country is following the lead.  The fines will put any business out of business.  First fines were 5 and 10 million dollars against major manufacturers like K&N.  Got everyones attention.

Edited February 20, 2023 by m sprank

[RumblyXT]

If I'm not mistaken, they go by a period of 25 years..

Which really doesn't make sense since you'd think a newer motor/vehicle would have better efficiency/less emissions.

At the end of the day, the "whole safety and emission controls" seems to be more about the Benjamins.

From Google:

Under Japanese Industrial Standard, octane rating of gasoline must be 89.0 or above for Regular and 96.0 or above for High-octane respectively. High-octane gasolines commonly sold in Japan normally have 98-100 octane rating regardless of brands. There are only two types of gasoline sold in Japan.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by RumblyXT

[m sprank]

LOL.  RON (Europe and Japan) vs AKI (US).   Also, when you need to tune the car/ecm you are no longer operating the engine at the manufactures tested levels.  So emissions are now untested and unapproved, you are operating illegally. 

 

( RON Octane Rating x 0.95 = AKI Octane Rating )
98 RON Octane x 0.95 = 93.1 AKI Octane
100 RON Octane x 0.95 = 95 AKI Octane

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by m sprank

[RumblyXT]

 Thank you for the info 

[m sprank]

No problem.  Not trying to bust chops.  Trying to offer honest advice and info so as not to lead someone down a rabbit hole.  What was easily do-able a few years ago has become far more difficult.  Wasting time and money chasing a dream is not viable for many. 

[RumblyXT]

I understand. Honestly, at one point I even considered returning the motor, but then saw a few others who were able to achieve it running properly which is why I wanted to give this a try.

Between the jdm ECU, the double AVCS proper timing, the eeprom immobilizer, and the solenoids issue, it has definitely been a challenge already..

If I could do it all over again, I’d have probably start with the H6 3.0 platform instead.

Thank you again, we’ll see..

Edited February 20, 2023 by RumblyXT

[m sprank]

Good luck!!!

[RumblyXT]

Thank you!

[Markmarcus]

Not sure exactly what spank is trying to say however I have an 07 Legacy GT limited turbo  (not my daily drive: project car) we eliminated  the front ACVS no xtra equipment needed (aka harnass).

Tuned it With Cobb passport and it runs great. NOTE! you MUST compensate for the larger fuel injectors that come standard with the JDM.  A "GOOD" Cobb tuner should be able to do this. My car passes inspection every year and I live in New York.

 

[m sprank]

I am not spank and you failed to read the first post.  The OP specifically wanted to keep the full AVCS.  

[RumblyXT]

Thank you for your comment Markmarcus.

By eliminated the front AVCS, did you mean your exhaust AVCS gears? Did you also swap an ej20x on your car?

I was originally thinking of going with dual AVCS on the ej20x, but that would of course require the jdm ECU.

But I may have found an alternate method by capping the exhaust camshaft oil ports of the 20x or hopefully using my ej255 exhaust cams (if they're not damaged) and using the usdm ECU with them as non AVCS/cams/gears on the exhaust side like the ej255 has, then retarding the timing 1 tooth (7 degrees), that way the USDM computer can control the whole thing as if it was as ej255. What do you think?

You can follow/comment/contribute your ideas on my ej20x swap thread here: 

Your input will be greatly appreciated.

[m sprank]

You can eliminate the exhuast AVCS and make it work.  Basically treat the engine like a standard ej255.  This is far more do-able than making it work as originally intended.  Its the quad AVCS thats the issue. 

[Markmarcus]

Rumbly! you can try your method if you like; I have no experience with this method because it was too involved and costly. the quad AVCS are a pain in the a**.  cap them, straight pipe the exhaust,  tune it and move forward.

IF you NEED to be more "involved" and have the time/$$$$ then follow your heart and go for it.

Did you also swap an ej20x on your car? yes

but that would of course require the jdm ECU. NO

capping the exhaust camshaft oil ports . YES disconnect the wiring as well. i received no codes because it just never recognized it.

then retarding the timing 1 tooth (7 degrees). I have no experience with this. When i started the engine i was horriffic until i brought it to the Cobb Tuner guy.

OH and Sprank! easy tiger it was a miss key on the name; no worries.

[m sprank]

Like he just said. You cap off the oil feed ports for the avcs control valves. You don't have the wiring to connect anyway with your usdm harness. 

I would not straight pipe, but exhaust set up is your option. 

The engine comes with different injectors than the stock engine. You will need a tune. If you have a tuner you should be able to receive a base map to get you to the facility safely.

 

No swapping cams, no retarding timing. No oil pressure and the avcs exhaust cams will max out advancement and stay there.  Competanat tuner can handle all.  Should not have to delete any CEL's that would get them in trouble. 

 

Dont get dual avcs, but you get a functional car.  I prefer the ej255 over the ej20x with no dual avcs. But you can get the ej20x cheaper than building an ej255.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by m sprank

[Markmarcus]

What Sprank just said and what I said.  My set up was my preference. neglected to mention; ....(cause i did this three years ago) yes Sprank........ 'Base map' from cobb got me to the tuner.

 

Please do not forget the FUEL injectors they are LARGER but for the life of me i cant remember how large.

 

[RumblyXT]

1 hour ago, m sprank said:

You can eliminate the exhuast AVCS and make it work.  Basically treat the engine like a standard ej255.  This is far more do-able than making it work as originally intended.  Its the quad AVCS thats the issue. 

Correct, that seems to be the biggest obstacle in this 20x swap.

Noob question: If I plug the exhaust camshafts oil ports, how do they get oil? Won't they seize in the heads? I'm still trying to understand this.

This is why I was thinking of using my own ej255 exhaust cams with non AVCS gears from the motor that got damaged, provided of course that the ej255 aren't damaged.

[RumblyXT]

34 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Like he just said. You cap off the oil feed ports for the avcs control valves. You don't have the wiring to connect anyway with your usdm harness. 

I would not straight pipe, but exhaust set up is your option. 

The engine comes with different injectors than the stock engine. You will need a tune. If you have a tuner you should be able to receive a base map to get you to the facility safely.

 

No swapping cams, no retarding timing. No oil pressure and the avcs exhaust cams will max out advancement and stay there.  Competanat tuner can handle all.  Should not have to delete any CEL's that would get them in trouble. 

 

Dont get dual avcs, but you get a functional car.  I prefer the ej255 over the ej20x with no dual avcs. But you can get the ej20x cheaper than building an ej255.  

For this 20x swap, I was planning on using the 20x long block (block and heads) and everything above it would be ej255 (Intake manifold, turbo, vacuum hoses, PCV, fuel lines, injectors, etc.).. Are you suggesting I should use the 20x injectors instead, since I'm going with the 20x long block or can I keep the ej255 injectors?

No advancing/retarding time on the exhaust cam gears sounds awesome. Less confusion  when installing the T/B.

There's only one problem, when I purchased this car, it came with a catless downpipe, aftermarket intercooler, cold air intake and Grimspeed boost controller. The old ej255 engine more than likely had a tune, because I drove the car for around 9 months till the motor went bad. 

But I was never given the tune, access port for it. How do I go about it this time with the ej20x swap? Last thing I want is damage this motor too. Should I sort out those parts to put it back to stock? 

[RumblyXT]

25 minutes ago, Markmarcus said:

What Sprank just said and what I said.  My set up was my preference. neglected to mention; ....(cause i did this three years ago) yes Sprank........ 'Base map' from cobb got me to the tuner.

 

Please do not forget the FUEL injectors they are LARGER but for the life of me i cant remember how large.

 

Sorry, I meant this reply for you Markmarcus,

For this 20x swap, I was planning on using the 20x long block (block and heads) and everything above it would be ej255 (Intake manifold, turbo, vacuum hoses, PCV, fuel lines, injectors, etc.).. Are you suggesting I should use the 20x injectors instead, since I'm going with the 20x long block or can I keep using the ej255 injectors?

I appreciate the help.

Edited February 22, 2023 by RumblyXT

[Markmarcus]

Are you suggesting I should use the 20x injectors instead?

NO I took the entire JDM engine and modified the AVCS and harness wiring. base map tune then to my tune guy.

while modifying the20x i wanted to swap fuel injectors from the Oem ej255 engine  because they were "NEWER"... that's when i discovered that 20x were Larger then the ej255  and duly noted it when i got it tuned.

Your swap sounds better then mine and i never thought of doing it that way. that because i am a weekend warrior with limited knowledge. i would assume your swap is feasible but im not the guy to answer that. i do know that these engines  ej255 and 20x are similar BUT different in size in some aspects. WILL EVERYTHING FIT that's the question???? im sure you will see as u go along.

[Markmarcus]

it came with a catless downpipe, aftermarket intercooler, cold air intake and Grimspeed boost controller.

I have these on my car. No problem.

purchase the cobb tuner...........i know iknow 600 plus 600 for the tune. but ya by pass the AVCS... thats a major cost and a major save.

 

SO! one step back TWO steps forward.