TwoTone Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Why yes after owning 14 cars over the past 50 years, I think I can say that there is a wee bit of experience in what I said. The 2015 OB is my newest car, I normally buy cars of an older vintage. And yes, it was normally considered a normal function on older cars for them not to roll backward. Now I'm not talking about some 35 degree incline but the OB can't / won't hold on a minimal incline. If they did start to roll backward, the trans/idle set-up was starting to age. From what I am reading it is all part of the fuel efficiency model. I guess it is what we are accustomed to driving? I have to agree with the quotation...I still don't like it. "The same behavior drove me crazy (still does, I guess) when I bought a 2001 Honda Odyssey as a replacement for an older Town and Country. I was surprised to find a note of explanation in the manual: The torque converter is designed with additional slippage as a way to reduce fuel consumption at idle. Okay, but I still don't like it." https://community.cartalk.com/t/subaru-outback-automatic-transmission/33327 No you don't. You're making up stuff because of what you 'think' after driving so many cars. Slushboxes were never designed to hold on a hill. It was a side effect of the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 OP is fine. No need to be harsh. And that’s coming from ME! '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urdrwho Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 Making stuff up? What you are going to find is many people who are new to driving with the CVT are perplexed about the drifting backward while in drive. I'm not making this stuff up and if you just do a search using "what if my car rolls backward when in drive" you'll find hits of perplexed people. I use duck duck go go as my search engine, not sure what google would show. You can also try "CVT transmission will roll backward" and you'll get even more hits. It is what it is an the CVT is a different animal than the transmissions that I and many of us older people grew up with. Time and time and time you'll read that it is because it adds fuel efficiency. Non-CVT answer Jeff Engstrom Automotive Mechanic 10 years of experience This kind of reaction is often a sign of low transmission fluid or a faulty transmission control solenoid. As you know, automatic transmissions use pressurized hydraulic fluid to change gears. Every time a gear change is required, the car’s computer activates a transmission solenoid, which directs transmission fluid into the valve body to engage the correct gear. When this is faulty or not working properly, this can cause a delay in gear shifting or in some cases cause the car to not shift at all. This type of problem is amplified any time the transmission is low on fluid creating a drop in hydraulic pressure. I would recommend having a professional from YourMechanic come to your location to diagnose and inspect your vehicle. "For the last 2 days, while sitting at a stpp light, I'll take my foot off the brake and when I go to push the gas my car will roll back a little." CVT questions / answers "The reason I ask is that my old automatic transmission car never rolled back even on a steep hill. Therefore, I find it funny that this automatic transmission does." "Yes, older cars could be held on an incline by the transmission–in some cases by applying a bit of pressure to the gas pedal–and in some cases without applying pressure to the gas pedal. But, holding a car on an incline by applying more gas was never a good idea, due to increased wear on the transmission. However, on newer, more fuel-efficient vehicles (Hondas for example) it is considered entirely normal for the vehicle to roll backward on an incline if the brake is not applied. I suspect that the newer Toyotas are similar in behavior." "How can a car with cvt roll back on the hill, what causing it? I was waiting for a green light uphill, then took my foot from the breaks to go, but the car rolled back as with manual transmission Have anybody experience something similar?" "CVT facts Tue May 20, 2008 4:41 pm Yes, this is a characteristic of the CVT transmission. In order to prevent the CVT's steel drive-belt from slipping during hard acceleration, the transmission employs a unique fluid that reportedly contains microscopic rubber "balls," and a very mild torque converter. It is the mild ("weak") torque converter that reduces not only the hill-holding ability, but the engine braking as well. You'll get used to it. You may also notice the car accelerates like a sling shot (starts off slow, but rapidly gains torque). You won't even notice this after a few months. " https://community.cartalk.com/t/2014-subaru-forester-cvt-transmission/84650/2 "Actually this is a pretty common complaint about CVT’'s on Subaru’s and others rolling backwards on hills. The main suggestion i’ve found is to not rely on the Transmission to hold you in place but let off the brakes with your left foot while you apply the gas. A traditional automatic might not roll back as much but it still can roll." No you don't. You're making up stuff because of what you 'think' after driving so many cars. Slushboxes were never designed to hold on a hill. It was a side effect of the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisvegas Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Making stuff up? urdrwho, I certainly don't want to believe you are "making stuff up" but what I don't understand is why you don't get rid of the car. It seems to me that unfortunately you have bought a total lemon. This does happen, and that's exactly why lemon laws were introduced. Even if you can't use the lemon laws, I can't understand how you can live with that vehicle ... I know it's financially difficult to simply change cars, but this car must drive you nuts. Most people, especially those who subscribe to car forums like this, get enjoyment from car ownership, and there is a tinge of satisfaction from the moment they get in their vehicles. They often are even guilty of glancing back to their cars after they are parked and give a little smile of satisfaction .... I'll put my hand up for doing that occasionally. So I just don't understand how you live with a car that has given you so much trouble. I think for the sanity of yourself, your family, and the health of your dog or cat (who you must kick after getting home after driving this heap of a car every day) I suggest you do whatever it takes to dump it, because you will never be able to enjoy driving it because even if you get some of the problems fixed, it will always be in the back of your mind that you unfortunately simply bought the wrong car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 The OP's car doesn't seem to be a lemon. I think we've digressed more than anything. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urdrwho Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 It isn't a lemon but it: 1. Has more issues than any used car I ever bought 2. It has the lowest miles on it of any used car I ever bought 3. I paid the highest amount compared to any used car I ever bought So I am a little ticked off at myself and that is probably coming out in what or how I write. Last week I did start looking for another car. The dealer has had the car since last Thursday and I might get it back today. I'll see what they have done to fix the 8 or 9 items on the list. The CVT trans is what it is and I can get accustomed to it. I have no aversion to placing my left foot on the brake. Interesting info about the CVT More CVT info High Torque CVT vs the normal CVT According to someone I know thru the trade, the pairing is as follows: 2010-2012 2.5L Outback & Legacy - TR690 (Gen I) 2013-present 2.5L Outback & Legacy - TR580 (Gen II) 2015-present 3.6L Outback & Legacy - Updated TR690 2014-present 2.0 & 2.5L Impreza/Crosstrek & Forester - TR580 (Gen II) 2014-present 2.0 turbo WRX - TR580 (maybe different TC?). No data on the Forester turbo, but likely the same as the WRX (?). EDIT: The Aussi site says the turbo mills are paired with the TR690. Wonder how they make it fit?? Edit: From Subaru technician training materials: Quote: 2015 CVT G1 / TR690 ENHANCEMENTS ... The High-torque CVT Generation 1 is equipped on all EZ 3.6 models for 2015 Legacy and Outback models. ... Torque converter -- Fluid performance and damper characteristics changed Forward/Reverse planetary -- Structure change (double pinion) Gear ratio (primary reduction gear) -- 1.000 Oil Pump -- Pump rotor new teeth Vibration noise performance -- Sound insulation cover shape changed, Thinsulate added The Lineartronic™ Continuously Variable Transmission Generation 2 (CVT G2) has been designed to provide the same type of linear acceleration control as the Lineartronic™ CVT Generation 1 (CVT G1). Lineartronic™ CVT Generation 2 (CVT G2) is a more compact design enabling the new CVT to be equipped in the smaller chassis design of the Impreza model line-up (100mm shorter and 15% lighter compared to CVT G1). This transmission may also be referred to as the TR580 in service information. The CVT G2 has a number of differences compared to the CVT G1. 1. The Forward and Reverse change over mechanism is on the input side of power flow. 2. The Pulleys are not rotating in Park or Neutral (less engine parasitic drag). 3. The weight and load of the vehicle directly affects the Secondary Pulley operation. 4. Fail-safe gear ratio is common for Primary Up or Primary Down solenoid failures. http://www.atra.com/Webinars/Import/Subaru_Lineartronic_CVT_Introduction.pdf urdrwho, I certainly don't want to believe you are "making stuff up" but what I don't understand is why you don't get rid of the car. It seems to me that unfortunately you have bought a total lemon. This does happen, and that's exactly why lemon laws were introduced. Even if you can't use the lemon laws, I can't understand how you can live with that vehicle ... I know it's financially difficult to simply change cars, but this car must drive you nuts. Most people, especially those who subscribe to car forums like this, get enjoyment from car ownership, and there is a tinge of satisfaction from the moment they get in their vehicles. They often are even guilty of glancing back to their cars after they are parked and give a little smile of satisfaction .... I'll put my hand up for doing that occasionally. So I just don't understand how you live with a car that has given you so much trouble. I think for the sanity of yourself, your family, and the health of your dog or cat (who you must kick after getting home after driving this heap of a car every day) I suggest you do whatever it takes to dump it, because you will never be able to enjoy driving it because even if you get some of the problems fixed, it will always be in the back of your mind that you unfortunately simply bought the wrong car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I agree - take a loss and dump it. I did with my 2015 Legacy and moved on. Pick your battles, life is too short. Best of luck with your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I have never noticed the A/C causing any of the new Subaru cars I have driver (14 up) to lurch the engine.. The compressors in these cars are always on and the use varies from 2% to about 100% duty cycle.. one thing I have noticed with these newer cars is that when you give the car throttle, it will dial back the A/C in favor of acceleration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Making stuff up? What you are going to find is many people who are new to driving with the CVT are perplexed about the drifting backward while in drive. I'm not making this stuff up and if you just do a search using "what if my car rolls backward when in drive" you'll find hits of perplexed people. I use duck duck go go as my search engine, not sure what google would show. You can also try "CVT transmission will roll backward" and you'll get even more hits. It is what it is an the CVT is a different animal than the transmissions that I and many of us older people grew up with. Time and time and time you'll read that it is because it adds fuel efficiency. Non-CVT answer Jeff Engstrom Automotive Mechanic 10 years of experience This kind of reaction is often a sign of low transmission fluid or a faulty transmission control solenoid. As you know, automatic transmissions use pressurized hydraulic fluid to change gears. Every time a gear change is required, the car’s computer activates a transmission solenoid, which directs transmission fluid into the valve body to engage the correct gear. When this is faulty or not working properly, this can cause a delay in gear shifting or in some cases cause the car to not shift at all. This type of problem is amplified any time the transmission is low on fluid creating a drop in hydraulic pressure. I would recommend having a professional from YourMechanic come to your location to diagnose and inspect your vehicle. "For the last 2 days, while sitting at a stpp light, I'll take my foot off the brake and when I go to push the gas my car will roll back a little." CVT questions / answers "The reason I ask is that my old automatic transmission car never rolled back even on a steep hill. Therefore, I find it funny that this automatic transmission does." "Yes, older cars could be held on an incline by the transmission–in some cases by applying a bit of pressure to the gas pedal–and in some cases without applying pressure to the gas pedal. But, holding a car on an incline by applying more gas was never a good idea, due to increased wear on the transmission. However, on newer, more fuel-efficient vehicles (Hondas for example) it is considered entirely normal for the vehicle to roll backward on an incline if the brake is not applied. I suspect that the newer Toyotas are similar in behavior." "How can a car with cvt roll back on the hill, what causing it? I was waiting for a green light uphill, then took my foot from the breaks to go, but the car rolled back as with manual transmission Have anybody experience something similar?" "CVT facts Tue May 20, 2008 4:41 pm Yes, this is a characteristic of the CVT transmission. In order to prevent the CVT's steel drive-belt from slipping during hard acceleration, the transmission employs a unique fluid that reportedly contains microscopic rubber "balls," and a very mild torque converter. It is the mild ("weak") torque converter that reduces not only the hill-holding ability, but the engine braking as well. You'll get used to it. You may also notice the car accelerates like a sling shot (starts off slow, but rapidly gains torque). You won't even notice this after a few months. " https://community.cartalk.com/t/2014-subaru-forester-cvt-transmission/84650/2 "Actually this is a pretty common complaint about CVT’'s on Subaru’s and others rolling backwards on hills. The main suggestion i’ve found is to not rely on the Transmission to hold you in place but let off the brakes with your left foot while you apply the gas. A traditional automatic might not roll back as much but it still can roll." So we went from automatic transmissions being designed to hold on a hill to characteristics of a CVT. I used to work and build transmissions in a shop that specialized in drag racing transmissions- google all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urdrwho Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 Yep. How many drag cars park on a inclines? But seriously I give you kudos for working on transmissions. Almost 40 years ago, In the middle of a small Indiana town, on a gavel parking lot, I removed the busted piston on a 1959 GMC bus, pulled the heads. After the heads were done I re-installed everything. Off we go. If you are in a band --- spend the money on a good bus! But I never ever would open up a transmission, to me they are like voodoo. If you open one ya better be shaking that chicken. So we went from automatic transmissions being designed to hold on a hill to characteristics of a CVT. I used to work and build transmissions in a shop that specialized in drag racing transmissions- google all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 EDIT: The Aussi site says the turbo mills are paired with the TR690. ... Yep. Not very relevant to the topic, but the TR690 is in the following from 2013 onwards (but some were later than this): All FA20DIT engine/CVT combinations (WRX, Levorg, Forester XT, Forester tS), 3.6 H6 engine/CVT combinations (Liberty 3.6R & Outback 3.6R), diesel engine/CVT combinations (Forester & Outback). The lower powered Levorg 1.6/CVT combination is listed as having auto stop/start so it looks like it only has the TR580. As far as I know this is the same as overseas domestic markets that have these vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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