Hype4Lyfe Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Hey there everybody. I have a 2010 3.6R Legacy and I am having random misfires like others have posted about and have been trying to chase this elusive source of the problem. The main reason for this post is because I need help on knowing how to replace the EGR valve. I couldn’t find any video or instruction on it and thought I’d reach out to the Subie Community. To date I have done the following to attempt to address the random misfire issue: - Spark Plugs Changed (2 years ago) - Coil Packs Changed about 8-10 months ago. - Oil changed regularly - PCV Valve replaced - Seafoam ran through engine to clean carbon deposits - Serpentine belt replaced due to a seized pulley. - Replaced seized pulley I’ve noticed that the misfire codes happens at low RPM and the car stutters and struggles to accelerate from a low RPM. This is not the case all the time but when it does happen it is noticeable. I’m focusing on the EGR VALVE because I did at one point have a code for it but it went away. So I may be suspecting that there may be an issue with it and wanted to see if there was carbon build up in it. The codes below are what I have had to date: P0203 P0403 P0600 P2400 These are some of the codes but essentially each cylinder has thrown a misfire code at some point. I’m having a hard time trying to pinpoint the problem so if anybody has any advice on the best way to remove the EGR Valve and chase down this random misfire issue, it would be greatly appreciated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Given most of these issues center around good electrical connections and grounds I would suggest taking some time to go through the wiring harness on the top of the engine and look at all the ground connections as well as the connectors themselves. The 3.6 doesn't have an EGR valve that I can find in the FSM or can recall anyone ever replacing. Look at the emissions sticker under your hood and see if it lists one there, I don't believe it has one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype4Lyfe Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Given most of these issues center around good electrical connections and grounds I would suggest taking some time to go through the wiring harness on the top of the engine and look at all the ground connections as well as the connectors themselves. The 3.6 doesn't have an EGR valve that I can find in the FSM or can recall anyone ever replacing. Look at the emissions sticker under your hood and see if it lists one there, I don't believe it has one though. Apparently it does. The code P0403 refers to the “Exhaust Recirculation Control Circuit” and the Service Manual shows the location of it but I just don’t know what is the best method to do so. The pic seems to show that it is underneath the exhaust manifold somewhat. I swear they designed this engine in specific to be non serviceable to people without the correct tools. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Removing the EGR on a 3.6R is fairly easy. Vacation pics show it well. There is also a block off plate you can use off of an old-gen 3.0R that you can then use for an OEM look. If you remove it though you'd still have to make a few changes in your ROM (including turning off a few codes and changing the EGR step table values) I would recommend zero'ing out the EGR step table in the ROM first and seeing if that helps. I have a suspicion it will not. It will basically do the same as a removal with none of the downsides. You can also reach under the manifold from the back with the engine cold and unplug the solenoid - its a pain to get to. This too will in turn keep the EGR valve closed - even though the ECU would still attempt to command it open. Misfires are likely more along the lines of coil pack issues and/or clogged injectors or clogging injectors. Given that you're seeing this at low RPM points to clogging injectors, clogged in-tank pre-filter, in-pump paper fuel filter, etc. Doesn't seem you've touched those and on a car this old - they're bound to slowly be on their way out. SeaFoam also didn't do you much good - especially if introduced via a vacuum line or throttle body. Stick with StartTron Ring Clean and/or B12 ChemTool and LukasOil Injector/Upper Cylinder Cleaner/Lubricant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype4Lyfe Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 Removing the EGR on a 3.6R is fairly easy. Vacation pics show it well. There is also a block off plate you can use off of an old-gen 3.0R that you can then use for an OEM look. If you remove it though you'd still have to make a few changes in your ROM (including turning off a few codes and changing the EGR step table values) I would recommend zero'ing out the EGR step table in the ROM first and seeing if that helps. I have a suspicion it will not. It will basically do the same as a removal with none of the downsides. You can also reach under the manifold from the back with the engine cold and unplug the solenoid - its a pain to get to. This too will in turn keep the EGR valve closed - even though the ECU would still attempt to command it open. Misfires are likely more along the lines of coil pack issues and/or clogged injectors or clogging injectors. Given that you're seeing this at low RPM points to clogging injectors, clogged in-tank pre-filter, in-pump paper fuel filter, etc. Doesn't seem you've touched those and on a car this old - they're bound to slowly be on their way out. SeaFoam also didn't do you much good - especially if introduced via a vacuum line or throttle body. Stick with StartTron Ring Clean and/or B12 ChemTool and LukasOil Injector/Upper Cylinder Cleaner/Lubricant. Awesome info. I’ll take a look at this and look at one of the cleaners suggested. I have a feeling it may be injector related as well. How hard is it to replace the fuel filter on this car? Do you have a link to the “vacation” pics for the EGR? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 You should get and use BtSsm. It will show you exactly which of the 6 cylinders are misfiring, how often, when, etc. It will also give you Injector PW, DCs, Fuel Temp, A/F per Bank, Final Fueling Base, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype4Lyfe Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 You should get and use BtSsm. It will show you exactly which of the 6 cylinders are misfiring, how often, when, etc. It will also give you Injector PW, DCs, Fuel Temp, A/F per Bank, Final Fueling Base, etc etc. I was reading into it a little and it seems like something that will help me diagnose my issues. Is FreeSSM the same thing essentially and is it Mac compatible? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 FreeSSM is abandon-ware and ancient when compared to BtSsm. No Subaru software works on MacOS or iOS, just pickup or use any old Android tablet or device running Android v5-7 and with bluetooth or USB-OTG functionality. To do things on the cheap, get or use such an Android device, buy BtSsm app and use either a VAG com Kline USB cable n dongle or an ODBLink LX or BtSsm dongle. Alternatively, if you have any Windows 7-10 laptop or tablet handy, use that with a VAG com KLine cable and RomRaiders logger... that will give you similar functionality to BtSsm but with far less convenience (wireless and phone size device vs wired and larger device) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy.B Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 My car was still covered under warranty so they replaced my EGR valve and the gaskets. I do seem to still have a small leak from it somewhere. I'm thinking about just blanking it out eventually. I reloaded the ROM from before we tried the higher octane tuning and the pinging seems much much better than before they replaced it. It also doesn't rumble like if did when I would start her up. I need to get a better coupling for checking the intake for leaks. For monitoring you can get one of the two Obdlink devices and use Btssm on your android phone. I believe Perscitus to be right that your misfires are from a fuel issue, not the EGR. I didn't have any misfire issue with the EGR. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Timothy.B's 2011 LEGACY 3.6R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Tim, have Ed zero out your EGR step table and turn off the 1-2 associated DTC, see how you like that... your intake manifold will thank you with average IMTs <40F. If you dont like it, just flash back to same tune, stock EGR step table. The 3.6R has no low/med/high step fueling adjustments so no need to muck with anything else in the tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 You might just run it by the dealership anyway, some emissions components are covered longer than just the standard power-train warranty. Check your warranty booklet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy.B Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Tim, have Ed zero out your EGR step table and turn off the 1-2 associated DTC, see how you like that... your intake manifold will thank you with average IMTs <40F. If you dont like it, just flash back to same tune, stock EGR step table. The 3.6R has no low/med/high step fueling adjustments so no need to muck with anything else in the tune. I may see if he can do that. I just got my PCV in the mail today so was gonna replace that. I reloaded my tune. I still need to log and see how AFR's and such are but the pinging has been reduced a lot. Timothy.B's 2011 LEGACY 3.6R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Sounds good, if he cant or wont, I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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