sleepydave Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Howdy all, I have a few questions I was hoping you could help out with. 1. Can we fit an 044 in tank with our fuel bucket? 2. Can we fit a walboro 450 in tank with our fuel bucket? I assume yes on this one? 3. Can this be modified to work with our tank hat? https://www.maperformance.com/products/ti-automotive-dual-pump-assembly-2-x-450lph-e85-ti-tca948-4 4. Is there a way to modify the sti fuel hat and hanger (oblong vs our circles) to our tank? 5. If I were just to plastic weld a hanger assembly to our top hat, what needs to be reained? Level sender, etc obviously, but can it be done without any overly intricate plumbing? I have not really taken any deep looks at our assemblies except to install a drop in dw65c years back. Essentially I am trying to keep things simple but have enough fueling for 550-600 to the tires. I dont really like the idea of a surge tank as I wont be tracking hard, and I'd prefer to stick with intank options. I will be running a boost-a-pump to 17v so I think Im covered with a single wally 450 or 044. Running 30psi and at a static pressure of as high as 60psi but most likely 54psi. Have an aeromotive fpr, looking to keep my stock fuel lines if possible. Any insight, tips, hints, speculation, or name calling welcomed! Thanks! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utc_pyro Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1. Can we fit an 044 in tank with our fuel bucket? Likely not. 2. Can we fit a walboro 450 in tank with our fuel bucket? I assume yes on this one? Probably. Not sure if you'll be able to make the stock filter function with that pump, but you can cut the filter up a bit an use it as a mount. Hole is 40.5mm so you have some room there, and the 450's length roughly matches the stock pump. If you have bypass the filter, use 9mm corrugated hose to the bucket output nipple. 3. Can this be modified to work with our tank hat? https://www.maperformance.com/products/ti-automotive-dual-pump-assembly-2-x-450lph-e85-ti-tca948-4 Link dosent work. But for a dual pump system in our tanks Radium Engineering has you covered. M.Spark/Infamous Performance can get them for you at a better price. 4. Is there a way to modify the sti fuel hat and hanger (oblong vs our circles) to our tank? '08-'18 STI fuel bucket is the same as ours. I'm literally running a 2015 STI housing right now. Are you referring to the old style one without the built in bucket? While it was easy to hang big pumps off, it's actually a pretty crappy design with a much higher chance or fuel starvation. To make it would you'd have to cut open the tank and install the sub bucket thing those used, there are better options than that. 5. If I were just to plastic weld a hanger assembly to our top hat, what needs to be reained? Level sender, etc obviously, but can it be done without any overly intricate plumbing? I have not really taken any deep looks at our assemblies except to install a drop in dw65c years back. You need to keep all of it but the filter (if run one in the engine bay) if you want more than half a tank of usable fuel. You could replace the venturi pump with a Radium one, but if you aren't running a surge tank you'd need to keep the rest of the stuff functional to fill the bucket. Plastic welding isnt something you should be looking into, it's going to be more complicated and cost more than other methods. Ether gut the filter and mount whatever huge thing in there you want, or go all in on the radium hanger. Essentially I am trying to keep things simple but have enough fueling for 550-600 to the tires. I dont really like the idea of a surge tank as I wont be tracking hard, and I'd prefer to stick with intank options. Radium Engineering has you covered I will be running a boost-a-pump to 17v so I think Im covered with a single wally 450 or 044. No need for the level of hackery. You'll want to keep some form of fuel pump duty cycle control though, if you're beyond wha the stock or STI FPCM can do look into this: https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/billet-fuel-pump-speed-controller/ Edit: Or if you go dual pumps (see radium hanger) you could run one pump on the stock FPCM, and the second pump on a hobs switch. That way ECU can do it's thing at low/medium power, then they get the second pump on demand (say at 15PSI boost). Running 30psi and at a static pressure of as high as 60psi but most likely 54psi. Have an aeromotive fpr, looking to keep my stock fuel lines if possible. Lines shouldn't be an issue. This isn't a carburetored build with the fuel pressure regulator in the trunk and a pump that cant push high pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydave Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Thanks for the input! Let's see if this works link works this time : https://www.maperformance.com/collections/fuel-pumps-surge-tanks/products/ti-automotive-dual-pump-assembly-2-x-450lph-e85-ti-tca948-4 I just cannot justify the cost of the radium units, I just absolutely cant, unless someone is offering upwards of 50% off. I can build a surge tank and lines for 25% of what the radium hanger alone costs. Yeah, I was looking at the older sti hangers that were sans bucket. Regarding the plastic weld, I figured I could 3D print a hanger assembly to retain what is needed much easier than trying to build a metal one. We shall have to agree to disagree on the boost a pumps being hackery (though I am quite sure you have loads more electrical knowledge than I do). Ive used them to great success on rotary builds. But my ears are open to your reasoning. I guess for now Im leaning towards a wally 450 and max her out. Then look into adding a surge tank and an 044 if more is necessary. I find it tough to swallow that we have no affordable hanger options (sub $350 tops) or diy options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utc_pyro Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I have a few reasons i don’t like voltage boosters. Mostly from the prospective of trying to build a street car. The problems is none of the products I’ve seen (haven’t looked too hard admittedly) are not fully demand adaptive. Running the fuel pump at a higher voltage will drastically increase the current draw. This will drastically increase your fuel heating, brush wear, and also likely lead to pump cavitation. All three of these will decrease the reliability of the system quite drastically. Now at low duty cycles there problems are greatly reduced. An adaptive system that could both PWM control the pump based on the ECU stock signaling at low and medium load, then dynamically increase pump voltage when at extreamly high demand would probably be OK. You would only be in voltage boost mode for some tiny fraction of a percent of your long term duty cycle, and never for more then 20 seconds at a time. 3D printed parts aren’t going to get along well with gasoline. The guts of our stock fuel buckets are perfectly fine for what you’re trying to do minus two places: the Venturi pump and the fuel filter. Both are going to be too restrictive. If you can fined a 3D printing filament that can handle gasoline/ethanol and heating up to ~100C you can make a custom pump hanger that would fit in the place of the filter. If not just gut the filter and modify it for use as your pump hanger. There is a thread on NASIOC where some people do that with some rather large pumps, and covertrussian had a thread covering gutting the "filter" portion. Actually doing some measurements, I think the use the stock filter as mount method would work. The upper portion of the F90000274 pump is 39mm, and the mounting hole in the filter is 40mm. Lower portion of the pump is 50mm, and there is ~5.5mm of clearance between the stock 38mm pump and the venturi pump pressure relief valve. Thus our stock bucket actually has EXACTLY the right amount of room to cram it in there. Length is the only issue, but if you cut out the stuff at the top of the filter anyway, it wont be an issue. We have two jet pumps in out buckets, and you'll need to keep the functionality of both. The bottom one will still be useable, and it is used to fill the fuel bucket. It shoots fuel out a jet at the bottom into the check valve at the bucket entrance. The upper portion (black thing that clips into the fuel filter) also has a pressure relief valve to try and keep fuel pressure overrun down. You want need to touch this on except to change the outlet line. The transfer venturi pump is going to be too restrictive though. It basically has a pinhoe worth of flow. I've having fuel pressure overrun with my AEM 320, so you 100% will. This is the one on the die of the bucket that pulls fuel from the passive driver side of the tank to the active passenger side. Fortunately Radium makes an higher flow aftermarket venturi/jet pump that will be able to keep up with your monster pump. I cant give you guidance on exactly what to do with this as I'm still figuring out my install, but you'll need to remove the stock pump and replace it with the new higher flow one and lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydave Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Youve given me a lot to ponder, many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utc_pyro Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 And you now have me designing a dynamic fuel pump booster with OEM ECU control... I don't need another project, but this is kind of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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