Brisky86 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hey guys, I am more than a bit frustrated as I have taken apart and put back together my serpentine belts and alternator several times now and am not really any closer to resolving my issue. Here is a quick video of the sound... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZtuD73XwTg Second video it is a bit harder to hear but sounds like an off and on rubbing of something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs1SXyYLqIk Long story: I had an annoying cat whine coming from my engine. I thought I was certain that it was coming from a bad bearing in the alternator. $100 later I had the alternator rebuilt. After much fiddling with the alternator I had it all back together only to still have the same annoying whining noise that got worse with engine RPMs. Next, I discover that the idler pulley on the belt tensioner for the AC had a bad bearing (the actual culprit). Replaced that with one I got from Autozone. The sound went away. Next in order to be sure I had resolved the issue I tried it with each belt on separately and everything sounded normal. Put both belts on and I started to hear this new strange sound. Initially I thought it was the alternator belt bumping the AC belt off the crank pulley. I put the belt covers back on and the space provided for the bolt that is on the alternator kept them from moving but the sound persisted. I have tried loosening the belts, tightening the belts, and the noise only seems to occur with both belts on, neither separately. I have taken the belts off and on and checked to make sure all the belts are in their grooves on the pulleys. I have no more ideas. So I tried to fix the initial problem only to have a new problem. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Update 1 Well new development. The idler pulley sold to me from Autozone did this to my timing belt cover. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/brisky86/IMG_20170128_181715.jpg When I went to return it, they recognized that they sold me the wrong one... So I ordered a new Gates idler pulley that will be here on Monday. I also believe that the sound is definitely coming from the alternator. So Monday I will be speaking to the rebuilder of the alternator to have him look at it again if the sound continues to be present when I reinstall the correct idler pulley and belt. Update 2 ---------------------------------- Perhaps against my better judgment, I am attempting to use JB plastic gap filler on the cover without taking it off. I tried to be careful not to push any of it inside the cover and used a small plastic spatula on it to try and "cover" the hole. I am going to wait 24 hours for it to dry tomorrow and will try to listen carefully to the timing belt for any abnormal noises when it runs at the start... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/brisky86/IMG_20170129_122130.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara32013 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Perhaps a problem with the harmonic balancer? Maybe it can't handle the stress of running the two belts, but I am uncertain what would cause that issue or if it's even possible. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Perhaps a problem with the harmonic balancer? Maybe it can't handle the stress of running the two belts, but I am uncertain what would cause that issue or if it's even possible. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in soon. Hmm like the pulley on the crank shaft that has both belts attached to it? Are those difficult to replace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara32013 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hmm like the pulley on the crank shaft that has both belts attached to it? Are those difficult to replace? Yes indeed, some refer to it as a "crank pulley" but the proper term is harmonic balancer. Changing it is very easy, you just remove the bolt and you should be able to tap it off with a rubber mallet. You may also have to remove the radiator fans but that's very simple as well. I think there are two plugs, and two bolts to remove the fans. However, don't take my advice to heart because I may be wrong. It's just something off the top of my head. I would wait for more long time members to chime in before making a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara32013 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I just watched the video (suppose I should have done that first). You were talking about the groaning type noise right, and not the ticking sound? I still don't have any better advice but maybe you could try some of that belt conditioner and see if that helps, when you use that stuff it will get worse before it gets better, just a heads up. Also how old are your belts and what brand are they? I've met a few people who only buy cheap belts and swear the expensive ones are louder... I can't confirm as I've only ever bought one serpentine belt in my life. Also, your engine bay is very clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 I just watched the video (suppose I should have done that first). You were talking about the groaning type noise right, and not the ticking sound? I still don't have any better advice but maybe you could try some of that belt conditioner and see if that helps, when you use that stuff it will get worse before it gets better, just a heads up. Also how old are your belts and what brand are they? I've met a few people who only buy cheap belts and swear the expensive ones are louder... I can't confirm as I've only ever bought one serpentine belt in my life. Yeah, I understand that the "ticking" is pretty common, but yeah the off and on groaning type noise is definitely new. The alternator belt is a brand new Continental Poly-V belt (the replacement fro the Goodyear Gatorbacks) and the AC belt is a slightly older Goodyear Gatorback that the previous owner replaced about a year ago in the car. I tried spraying water on the belts and pulleys and that makes no difference in the sound. When I tugged on the harmonic balancer it seemed to be on very snuggly and did not appear to be wobbly. How does one know when those go bad? A new OEM costs about $140. ATP costs about $60 on Amazon, and Dorman is $80 at Autozone. Also, your engine bay is very clean. Thanks I just cleaned it up some more and painted the belt cover blue to match my spark plug wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara32013 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I've never seen nor heard of one going bad unless it is installed incorrectly at one point in time. I believe when they are bad you'll notice it wobble when the engine is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 I've never seen nor heard of one going bad unless it is installed incorrectly at one point in time. I believe when they are bad you'll notice it wobble when the engine is running. Okay, no noticeable wobble. My wife thinks the sound is something rubbing but all the belts are lined up and the idler pulley under the AC is spinning fine now with the new one. I may just drive it as is until I get a more definitive answer, but it does sound like it is either the alternator or below the alternator, but if it was the alternator why would it only come on with both belts attached? Maybe I will just take the AC belt off again since I don't need that for that last bit of winter anyways... I am not sure. Hopefully, someone on here has heard this sound before and can better advise... Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Well in reviewing everything about the car I am inclined to belive that it is the idler tensioner pulley that Autozone found for me. I is about 1/2 an inch bigger than the one that came off (same number of belt grooves and same internal diameter for the bolt though) and I am guessing that because it is slightly bigger that is throwing off some "balance" when all the belts are running together. I am going to go ahead and order a Gates Idler Pulley instead and see if that works better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Well new development. The idler pulley sold to me from Autozone did this to my timing belt cover. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/brisky86/IMG_20170128_181715.jpg When I went to return it, they recognized that they sold me the wrong one... So I ordered a new Gates idler pulley that will be here on Monday. How important is it that I replace the timing belt cover? The hole is not very big... I also believe that the sound is definitely coming from the alternator. So Monday I will be speaking to the rebuilder of the alternator to have him look at it again... Frustrating weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I would either replace it plastic weld it a little. You don't want any crud getting in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 I would either replace it plastic weld it a little. You don't want any crud getting in there. Yeah I am thinking of putting foil tape over the top so I don't have to take the cover off. I am unsure of my ability to get plastic weld in there without removing the cover. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Yeah to take that part of cover off you need to take the crank pulley off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Perhaps against my better judgment, I am attempting to use JB plastic gap filler on the cover without taking it off. I tried to be careful not to push any of it inside the cover and used a small plastic spatula on it to try and "cover" the hole. I am going to wait 24 hours for it to dry tomorrow and will try to listen carefully to the timing belt for any abnormal noises when it runs at the start... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/brisky86/IMG_20170129_122130.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 That should be fine. Only thing you can do is put some tape over it too or replace the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 That should be fine. Only thing you can do is put some tape over it too or replace the cover. Okay thanks for your input. When I do the timing belt in another 70k miles (supposedly the belt was done around 20k miles/ 1 1/2 years ago) I will replace the cover. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well I just watched this video and the sound is almost exactly the same as my noise. In the video's case it was an alternator. So I am going to take it back to the shop tomorrow for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisky86 Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Good news. The local alternator rebuilder found a bearing was bad that he replaced when rebuilt it (it had pushed a bunch of grease out apparently). Also, I received my quality Gates idler pulley which is NOT boring a hole inside my patched timing belt cover. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/brisky86/IMG_20170128_165614.jpg I look forward to driving my own car to work tomorrow. What a long weekend. Thank you guys for all your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara32013 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Sweet! Hopefully you got everything sorted out! Damn that's a good looking engine bay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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