2005 Outback XT rough idle, smoke, stalling (new to me vehicle)

[Huxley]

Hey folks-strap in for this one, it's probably going to be a long ride.

 

I initially started a post at the Outback forums but it seems this is really the place to be for a turbo model.

 

Purchased this car a couple months ago, started work on it, then got into a motorcycle accident so I'm just getting back to it now.

 

Here's the rundown:

 

PO decided to sell it because after two turbo replacements and an engine replacement with a used DOHC, it was still having issues.

 

Initial Turbo failed. It ate the engine. The engine and turbo were replaced around 140K. Couple hundred miles down the road, the new turbo starts being a jerk. Turbo found to have defect and replaced under warranty. 100 miles later, it's having major problems. The most recent paperwork stated some codes relating to the tumbler valve and the same shop that did the work previously suggested a complete engine teardown again. Understandably, the PO said no way to that and then it sat for many months.

 

The PO advertised it as probably needing a IACV or spark plug change, etc. The battery was stone cold dead so any previous codes are gone (battery replaced with new recently). Upon pickup, the car started but I was hearing a whine from what I believe to be the turbo, some popping/backfiring sounds under the hood area, some smoke out the exhaust, and an incredibly rough idle and a consistent stall. I have not tried driving it on the road as I'm afraid it'll do damage to an already possibly damaged engine.

 

The only codes I am now able to pull are two identical generic P0036's. I noticed there's an empty electrical connector near the wiring harness as well. (fixed, O2 sensor had been unplugged, not throwing any codes now-unfortunately)

 

I also found one loosened bolt on the front passenger side of the intake. I'll be tightening that once I clean my garage from the 05 RS I just redid for a friend.

 

My deal: I've done about a dozen headgasket jobs along with clutches, exhaust, brakes, etc. I can do a NA Subaru motor in my sleep at this point. I've NEVER worked on a turbo before so I'm a little lost as to what is what on this vehicle.

 

I understand there might be a TGV issue, an OCV issue, a IACV issue, a fouled plug issue, a turbo issue (again), and possibly an entirety of the engine issue.

 

Where do I start?

 

In the meantime, I purchased this and did the solder job https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZKKMLE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I downloaded the programs but I'm having problems getting them to work on the laptop. That's a separate issue I suppose but it's one that I can't seem to figure out.

 

PO also got a compression test and leakdown test post being told to replace the already replaced engine. Numbers are: Cyl 1-140psi, Cyl 2-130psi, Cyl 3-130psi, Cyl 4-125psi

Leakdown test: Cyl 1-5%, Cyl 2-6%, Cyl 3-5%, Cyl 4-5%

 

Some more turbo details from the PO: Shop found the turbo to be bad (replaced 4500 miles earlier) (prior to me purchasing)

 

It appears as though the turbo was replaced but there is no mention within the parts list-just gaskets and seals and union screws, etc. I think this was under warranty?

 

At the end of the writeup, it reads "tech noted the clutch is weak and slipping" so if that's true, that sucks. I didn't notice it driving onto the car carrier or off, but it's not like I've had this thing down the road.

 

approximately 100 miles later in October of 2015 (?), he's back at the same dealership.

 

This time, the complaint is that there is a check engine light and the engine has no power.

 

Code pulled is P2016 (no longer appears, probably thanks to battery being dead when I arrived) and the tech found the oil a quart low (don't see any leaks) and a crack in the TGV (I don't know where to look). He declined any further work as the shop recommended another engine replacement.

 

Lastly, here are a few videos-one of the car running and the other of me checking the timing as per a recommendation.

 

I'm sorry for the very lengthy first post and I thank anyone in advance who has the time to help me dig into this.

 

 

[derp]

I'd start with making sure that the current turbo on the car is good. If it's damaged, running it any further can cause a bad day.

 

Really, your symptoms sound like you have some sort of leak. Is everything connected? Run through all the vacuum lines, make sure your intercooler pipes are connected, etc. If they're all good, you may have a spark issue or a fuel issue.

 

AFTER you've verified that your turbo isn't going to claymore your engine, you can try starting it with the MAF disconnected. If it idles clean, it's likely just a vacuum leak from somewhere (in my past experience). If still not, then I'd start digging into spark and fuel.

 

Good luck.

[Huxley]

While the turbo looks new, what's the best way to check to make sure it's still functional and operational? Again, intimately familiar with the SOHC NA engines but I'm lost on some of this turbo DOHC engine stuff.

[derp]

remove it.

 

check the center assembly for shaft play, gently grab the fins or center and see if it has play, both front to back and up/down/left/right. excessive play in either direction can indicate the center journal bearing is on its way out. If there's too much play, it can bounce fins off the housing and send shrapnel into your engine.

 

Also check both the front and back sets of fins, make sure there's no chips, nicks, dings or bent fins. Check the wastegate flap, make sure there's no cracks in the hot side, etc.

 

ensure that the center section spins freely. grab on to the exhaust fan and give it a spin, it should move without effort.

 

remove all of the fittings for coolant, oil lines, etc and make sure they appear to be clean of debris or gunk. ensure the banjo screens are removed.

 

etc.

[Huxley]

Hey-back again!

 

Checked turbo, replaced, and unplugged MAF.

 

Started vehicle and-my friend-you're right on the money. It idles just fine now.

 

However, it's still blowing smoke and sounds odd. I'm wondering if I didn't check the turbo well enough. I think I'm going to pull it again and post a video this time of what I find.

 

This also means I need to find the leak. Phooey. But at least this narrows it down, so I thank you sincerely! I was thinking I'd need to yank the engine, split the cases, and commence swearing.

[derp]

It could also mean that your MAF itself is bad, but that's less likely. Pull the MAF sensor and take a peek at the little bulb that goes in your intake. If it's covered in soot and oil and shit, it may give a wonky reading.

 

Other than that, common vacuum issues can be:

-turbo inlet, make sure that it still seals well. a common failure point is the inlet itself will rip off, right where the turbo inlet itself is. If the rubber fails on the hose, it won't seal right.

-turbo to intercooler. If you have a stock intercooler or stock style (perrin, AVO, etc), the turbo to intercooler seal can leak. I ended up using a chevy 350 thermostat gasket by Mr Gasket, and that fixed that leak. However, this is usually a boost leak as opposed to a vacuum.

-the stock intercooler's end tanks can separate from the core. Yay plastic end tanks. This is especially common on cars running greater than factory boost

-intercooler to throttle body hose, and throttle body hose to the throttle body itself. This can be a bitch to get to because of the intake manifold runners, make sure that you have a good seal on everything. I had the same rough idle issue and didn't find it till I got in with a flashlight and found that the hose had disconnected from the throttle body itself.

-the 'T' fitting. Under your intercooler there's a well-known T fitting, usually blue plastic. Hoses pop off those fuckers all the time. Throw a zip tie on each arm, and that should mitigate that issue.

 

Other vacuum lines that may cause issues: check the 3 that connect to your boost control solenoid, the 2 on your turbo.

 

Re: turbo, if it's blowing smoke you're leaking something. blue smoke or white? what's it smell like? Make sure your banjos are tight, and make sure that you got that oil drain from the turbo back to the block hooked up well. It's the tough one that you have to reach behind the turbo to grab, underneath the housings.

remove the oil cap and start the car. If you blow smoke out of the oil cap, you may have a ringland issue. If no smoke on startup, I'd worry less about that.

[Tuning Alliance]

Check turbo again, Check for boost leaks, clean maf, and replace front 02.

 

-Brian

Subaru Low Pressure Boost Leak Testing.pdf

[Huxley]

https://youtu.be/kNnZcVn222A

 

No smoke from the oil filler cap.

 

Did notice some residual smoke from the coolant overflow tank after a bit. No bubbles but I'm thinking the fact that it was running high for a bit coupled with no airflow didn't help. Hopefully I'm right. I've done enough headgasket jobs but I'd really rather not with this. Temp gauge never spiked.

 

The odd whine noise went away after a bit. Smoke from tailpipe area stopped too.

 

It was white-ish smoke. It's not reminiscent of an internal headgasket leak which I've seen before on these things (NA motor though).

 

I'll go through what you said and post again soon. Thank you so much for the help! If you notice anything weird in the video, feel free to tell me.

[derp]

Didn't notice anything wonky in the video, but at this point it looks like (if the turbo's fine and a new maf doesn't fix it) you get to play the 'chase down the whole vacuum system' game. :/

 

Tuning Alliance also mentioned the front 02, that could certainly help too. Do you throw a code with the MAF plugged in or will it just die? If you have a code reader you can clear the codes from running without the MAF plugged in, replug it in and try to start it again and see if you pull a code?

[derp]

also, how the **** do you forget 'derp' as a name?

[Huxley]

Heyyy everyone.

 

Work had me away for a while but I'm back to working on this XT. Need it done by early March so I'm assuming I'll be around more.

 

I unhooked the intercooler and took a look underneath. Please excuse the sun drowning out the imagery, but below the three-way blue connector, it looks like there's a PCV valve or something that has no hose going to it. See video for details. What's the deal with that? Does that explain the issues with stalling/rough idle until I unplug the MAF? This vehicle is not on the road so it's just doing this while idling. Otherwise it has sat patiently waiting for me to get to it.

 

Any info appreciated!

 

[Infosecdad]

That is the nipple to connect the PCV back into the engine. The hose that was right next to your hand should connect there. And, yes that will mess up the idle.

[Huxley]

Well damn it all...I'll go connect it and see what happens from there. And nice computer skillz, that is super clear and I wish I knew how to do that.

 

Most important-thank you! I'll post an update in a few!

[Huxley]

Another video:

 

Basically, that hose is connected to something to the right. I took that hose off after the video and it seems like it's connected to some plastic tube that possibly goes into the intake. So, as the video says-is that the wrong thing and, if so, what goes there if anything? Damn these vacuum lines.

[Infosecdad]

I think someone has crossed some of the vacuum lines before they sold it to you...

 

(Disclaimer: I have an 05 LGT, so I am assuming that it is essentially the same as your 05 OBXT)

 

You are correct that the hose is from the PCV system. On my car the hose that I pointed out is plugged into the metal nipple that currently doesn't have anything plugged into it on your car.

 

From looking at mine, the plastic nipple in the back of the intake where the PCV is currently plugged in, is where my brakebooster is plugged in. I went back to your earlier video and noticed the empty clip where the line from the brakebooster to the back of the intake is supposed to be.

 

Do you know what the brake booster is tied into now? This looks like a little more than a single missing line, I'm afraid they are rearranged a bit.

[Huxley]

Alright-went and checked things out. Going to plug the PVC house into the metal nipple on the back. I checked the brake booster line and it was plugged into...nothing! Having a little trouble getting the hoses to plug into their correct parts (it's cold again today) but once I do, I'll post back with how the car runs and then it's time for new brakes all around (current ones are pieces of rust) and then general maintenance. These lines were probably incorrectly routed when the engine was replaced by a shop in Massachusetts.

[Infosecdad]

Well that should be a good start, well done. You could try a hair dryer to warm up the rubber a bit, just be careful what you get hot with it. Can't believe a shop would be that bad at hooking everything back up...

[Huxley]

The paperwork had suggested that the owner needed a third new engine. Simply unplugging the MAF threw the idle constant, albeit high. I may still have troubles but this is an awesome start. Thank you again-everyone! I'll post a starting video once I pull the codes and go from there. Might drive it down the road.

[Huxley]

Ok, hoses are routed where they should be now, as far as I can tell. I'm gonna double zip tie that damn blue T connector because the current zip ties don't seem to be holding as well as they should. I'll pop the intercooler back on and see what happens!

[Huxley]

It works!!! I drove it down the road, idles beautifully now like nothing was ever wrong, no codes, nothing.

 

Thank you all again so much.

 

I did notice the tires seem off balance (no surprise) and I think it may need a or several wheel bearings (also not shocked) alongside new brakes all the way around and the aforementioned maintenance like fluid changes, etc. New spark plugs for the hell of it perhaps. Coolant. Any other suggestions, throw them my way!

 

Another thing I noticed-I don't know what boost feels like on this car as I don't believe I've ever driven a turbo Subie (just a friend's VW) but how can I tell if it's working or not? Sorry for my complete ignorance on that matter, I just have no clue.

 

This thing is exciting though. Taking a trip to Colorado in mid March so I need to get this sucker perfect beforehand.