Official Firearm Thread V3

[chowser51]

I’m a Geissele fan but for a cheap two stage trigger if you are not in a hurry (or if I’m running low on dillo dust) I will order a Larue MBT2S. It’s $99 if you aren’t in a hurry (usually a month). It’s a decent two stage trigger.

[THE RZA]

I do love Dillo Dust! And I love all the other stuff Larue sends in their packages. On my LWRC I have a Larue stock and I do love it.

 

I get a hefty discount from Geissele for being in the media so I end up paying a little more than I would for the MBT, plus Geissele is a local company to me. I’m intrigued by their new single stage for my 5.56’s because typically when I shoot those guns I’m shooting fast and don’t really use the 2 stage to it’s full capabilities. My 308 i slow down my shooting rhythm a lot more, focusing on quality shots and the 2 stage trigger is more beneficial. I am interested in this light single stage from geissele, the SSA-E i currently run does help me acquire shoot very fast, but I wonder if the single stage would be better for that

[TSiWRX]

have you tried other single stage triggers that light?

 

 

Not on an AR platform, unfortunately.

 

 

 

I don't know that it would matter that much to me, given how I shoot - i.e. the rather relaxed BSA template of "tactical/action" shooting, like what you're doing. There's folks who favor a good single-stage for target and hunting - and combine that with my interaction with some of the top-tier shooters, I really think now that the single versus two-stage issue on the AR platform is honestly a non-issue. There's more than a few tip-of-the-spear guys I know who shoot out to the 600 and beyond (with commensurately tight shots from the 100 and in) with single-stage triggers that I'm no longer convinced that a two-stage is necessary for absolute marksmanship (similarly, having seen some of the guys with fast trigger fingers run two-stage triggers, I'm also no longer convinced that a single-stage is absolutely necessary for burning things down, close-range).

 

 

I really think that in the above aspects, it's more about end-user preference than anything else.

 

 

 

In terms of safety, I am not really that worried: I'm a "finger out of the trigger guard, ya big doofus!" kind of guy.

 

 

 

My wanting to experiment with single-stage triggers in this context comes from the fact that -very- occasionally, I'll un-intentionally bump-fire a hammer with the SSA-E or MBT if I'm shooting from a compromised/unconventional position (like the brokeback, for-instance) when the stress of the drill/evolution makes it happen.

 

 

 

I was initially hyper-critical of myself for letting this happen, but one of my instructors re-framed it for me and caused me to re-examine it a bit: he asked me if what I did was in any way dangerous or was otherwise unacceptable. Given that in each instance I landed the shot into an acceptable BSA template (once on an A-zone mover at the 50 and the other on a mover of similar size and at similar distance, but in low-light), I was hard-pressed to say "no," but still, it was a round that I had not specifically intended to send downrange....and that's what's motivated me to look more at single-stage triggers.

 

 

 

thanks to /r/GunDeals I came across this deal (I HIGHLY recommend staying off the gun deals reddit if you like money, if you like guns but hate money, by all means)

 

 

Yeah, I agree! That and the mrgunsngear FB page are trying to ruin me!

 

 

 

 

It was worth spending the extra $50 on a deluxe LPK with the ACT trigger, Magpul MOE Grip and Noveske ambi 60 degree selector.

 

 

The 4-hour long P&S modcast on AR QC/QA really made me look at LPKs in a totally different light.

[THE RZA]

the kit I got was $110 and there was nothing "mil-spec" about it. ACT trigger, MOE Grip, Magpul oversized trigger guard, Noveske roll marked pivot and take down pins, Noveske/Magpul 60 degree ambi safety. All the creature comforts I've come to expect from a rifle.

 

Only thing missing is an ambi Mag release and a Ambi Bolt catch. obviously an ambi bolt catch would cost me a pretty penny for a gunsmith to mil and install in my rifle, could get a BAD Lever but I think I'll pass. I don't like how they take up space in the trigger guard. Ambi Mag release I can always upgrade at some point.

 

like you said with triggers, I agree. Not sure what I'll do but with the 5.56 I just like to hammer away at targets.

[TSiWRX]

the kit I got was $110 and there was nothing "mil-spec" about it. ACT trigger, MOE Grip, Magpul oversized trigger guard, Noveske roll marked pivot and take down pins, Noveske/Magpul 60 degree ambi safety. All the creature comforts I've come to expect from a rifle

 

 

Understood - but I'm not talking about those "large" components.

 

Rather, I'm talking about the springs and detents - it never occurred to me (although it should have) that there's reasons for the specifications to which they are built to, too, and that sub-standard parts can cause rather disastrous functional issues.

Edited June 18, 2018 by TSi+WRX

[THE RZA]

True, that’s why i don’t buy cheap parts or buy cheap rifles. I saw this video a few years back and it still resonates, either spend the money on a factory rifle with all the features and build quality you want, or start with a good lower like a Spike’s or Aero Precision and buy quality parts the first time:

 

https://youtu.be/glk1qMbj7S0

[Penguin]

For anyone who is interested I have decided to post up an initial thoughts review of a carbine I recently acquired: the Knight's Armament SR-15 E3 Mod 2 M-Lok. I understand that not everyone is going to be interested in a high end hard use factory gun on here, but figured some might find the topic interesting since it is not something usually found LGT.com.

 

For those who don't know Knight's Armament Company has been in business since the 1980's and has focused almost exclusively on selling weapon systems, suppressors, and other cool toys to Uncle Sam for our troops to use in the pursuit of shooting savages in the face. The company has been particularly successful in introducing and selling weapons and suppressors to the US Special Operations community since those units often have a lot of acquisition discretion that the regular Army, Navy, and Marines don't enjoy. Knight's has the distinction of being the last company to employ Eugene Stoner, and his influence is apparent in the larger SR-25 as well as the refinements to the smaller platform that is the SR-15/SR-16 family. In the last few years Knight's civilian market business seems to have picked up and they're making a more distinct effort to offer high quality hard use guns to regular law abiding citizens. Not that they ever discouraged it, just that up until the last few years finding any KAC complete rifle, carbine, or upper was like finding a unicorn on the civilian market.

 

A few months ago I ordered an SR-15 E3 Mod 2 M-Lok through Brownell's since they were offering a pretty solid price and I had some gift certificates, and their military, LEO, retired military discount applied as well. I've had a chance to shoot it a bit, and compare it to my other AR/M4 variants and have a few observations.

 

First of all some of you are going to ask what is it, and how is it any different than any other AR variant? That is a fair question and at the heart of the SR-15, what makes it different is the E3 bolt and the KAC approach to the gas system. There are other nice touches and a lot of quality parts, but what makes it tick is the bolt and the changes to how the DI gas system is implemented.

 

So about that bolt.... it is different than a standard AR bolt. To begin with KAC implemented the SR-25 like changes to bolt lug geometry that Stoner helped refine later in his life. The lugs are rounded where they meet the bolt body, both at the rear of each lug where lateral bolt thrust loads are present, and in between the lugs on the sides where rotational thrust will be present. This is a known method of reducing the possibility of cracking, and reducing crack propagation. In the interests of reducing bolt lug cracking the bolt face is supported where the normal AR bolt is relieved for the extractor. By designing the part in this manner the bolt lugs adjacent to the extractor are much more well supported against rotational thrust loads. Another effort in the crusade against premature bolt failures is the bolt cam pin hole is smaller in diameter leaving more material in the bolt tail area and increasing strength. Finally unlike a standard AR bolt, which will usually be made from Carpenter 158 steel, the KAC E3 is made from a "proprietary" alloy. The "proprietary" alloy is rumored to be AerMet 100 which is more or less a super steel used for aerospace applications, and of the 3 AerMet alloys has the highest resistance to crack propagation. AerMet 100 is also popular in the auto racing community as a material for output shafts because it is so tough. Unfortunately it costs a lot not only for the material but to machine and heat treat it. Of course KAC is mum on what the alloy actually is, but there are no reported failures of a KAC SR-15 bolt in the wild. I was able to find one where the extractor got bent up my a case head blow out, but the bolt itself was good to go just needed a new extractor.

 

The first photo is a factory Colt bolt carrier group, nothing unusual:

 

 

The next photo is of the KAC E3 bolt carrier group:

 

 

Also note that the extractor is different, the KAC design utilizes double springs and a relocated pivot point to exert more leverage on the case rim. Colt on the left KAC on the right.

 

 

Here we can see the differences in cam pin hole size, Colt on the left KAC on the right:

 

 

The next image gives a look at each bolt broken down, Colt on the left KAC on the right, notice the KAC bolt face supports the case in a full 360 degrees:

 

 

Assembled bolts facing the camera for a view of the bolt lug difference, Colt on the left KAC on the right:

 

 

Now in order to accommodate the different bolt lug shape the barrel extension is also different, so the KAC E3 bolt is proprietary to the KAC barrel extension. Cleverly in an emergency the KAC barrel extension will accept a standard AR bolt though, so if you have a spare AR bolt and your KAC bolt were to break you can still run the gun with a regular bolt until you can source a replacement KAC part.

 

 

I would try to photograph the gas manifold but all attempts resulted in mediocre photos that didn't really show what is going on very well. So I'll explain it as best I can. First of all the gas system is longer than a mid length, but shorter than a full rifle length on this 16" barrel so we'll call it an intermediate length gas system. The second change is the attachment method of the gas manifold/gas block, instead of dimples in the barrel and set screws or a roll pin, or taper pin, KAC has threaded the outside portion of the barrel ahead of the gas block. On this threaded area a castle nut is torqued down against the KAC gas block, the inside diameter of the block must be tapered a bit, and so must the outside diameter of the barrel where it mounts; the castle nut being torqued down creates a very tight secure seal as the tapered ID of block is forced onto the cone OD of the barrel.

 

On top of the gas manifold where the gas tube mounts there is another change, instead of the gas tube inserting into the gas block the end of the tube is flanged to fit over a nipple shaped outlet on the gas block with a threaded area behind it; over which a nut is torqued down forcing a tight leak proof seal here as well. All of these changes allow a relatively small gas port to be utilized for the gas system length, resulting in a very very smooth shooting carbine. Even with the stock 3 prong flash hider, which does nothing to mitigate recoil or muzzle climb, the gun stays pretty flat, and recoil is negligible. Brass is ejected into a nice consistent pile to the 3:00 with 5.56 NATO and to about 4:00 using 75gr .223 match ammo. I haven't tried any remanufactured 55gr .223 ball which is often loaded light so I can't comment on it. Winchester M855, IMI M193, Black Hills MK 262 Mod 1, Hornady 75gr 5.56 Superformance, and Hornady 75gr Steel Match are all it has been fed so far. No failures to feed, extract, or eject. One failure to lock back on the last round using an ancient Colt 20 round magazine with a spring so weak I was surprised it didn't have any other issues, this mag will often not hold open the bolt on my other AR's so it's time for a new magazine spring. All other magazines have functioned 100%.

 

Accuracy is in the 1" range for 5 shot groups at 100 yards, I've only shot it using the iron sights and a Nightforce NXS 1-4X24 with the FC-3G reticle in a Nightforce Uni-Mount. Not an ideal optic for shooting groups since the center dot obscures quite a bit of target and is tough for me to consistently place on target the same every time. I suspect that if I mount my 3.5-15X50 NXS I'll get better results, and might do that for fun, otherwise the little 1-4X24 is a light compact scope and it gets useful hits on reasonably sized targets just fine and makes more sense on carbine that weighs 6.5lbs.

 

So what else do you get for all your hard earned $$$ (make no mistake it costs some $$$ too...)?

 

Well for starters the carbine has a 16" cold hammer forged, chrome lined barrel. KAC doesn't want to share with everyone what the alloy is, but Ballistic Radio put 20,000 rounds through one and never cleaned it and got it really hot... and it was still turning in 1" groups at 100 yards at the end; so whatever it is it's pretty tough. The contour is not heavy but it's not quite a pencil contour either, there is no Government Profile stupidity going on before the gas block. Just a gentle taper until the barrel flares out a bit for the gas block to mount against, and then a light contour out to the muzzle. The muzzle appears nicely crowned and the chrome lining looks good. Inside by either luck or design the gas port on my barrel is in one of the grooves, so happy meal for me. The chamber area chrome lining looks like a mirror, so KAC did a good job of polishing the chamber and fired brass shows it, no dings, no scratches, no tool marks. Looks like it came out of a bolt gun. Out front KAC mounts their 3 prong flash hider, which is also a suppressor mount for their QDC line of suppressors, it looks nice and probably does a good job of killing muzzle flash. I will probably replace it with a hybrid device until I get a suppressor. The rest of the upper is also pretty nice, with the KAC URX M-Lok rail which is 14.5" long and doubles as the barrel nut making the assembly light and very very stiff. There are built in QD cups for a sling at the 9:00 and 3:00 on the rail ahead of the upper. Included are KAC folding iron sigths, the front is adjustable for elevation with no tools. The rear sight is adjustable for windage, and has a calibrated elevation drum from 200-600M.

 

You also get a fully ambidextrous lower receiver with the safety, mag release, and bolt release all being lefty friendly. The furniture is Magpul and I see no reason to change it. The trigger guard is a KAC aluminum piece that fills in the gap between the pistol grip and the lower, very nice touch. The receiver extension is a 6 position, nothing fancy just functional, KAC has put on an end plate with built in QD cups on both sides though. Inside you will find the KAC two stage match trigger, they claim a 4.5lb total trigger pull weight and that is probably accurate. It is a similar trigger to a Geissele SSA not only in feel, but in how the sere surfaces are relocated vs a GI trigger. One nice touch is all the trigger group internals appear to be nickel plated or NP3 plated. I'm a huge Geissele trigger fan boy, but the KAC trigger will stay where it is, no need to change it.

 

The carbine also ships with:

 

1 hilariously detailed owners manual with fold out schematics.

 

1 30 round Gen 3 PMag with window.

 

1 box of 6 MagPul M-Lok rail grip panels.

 

1 KAC 3" 5 slot aluminum M-Lok Picatinny rail adapter.

 

1 KAC locking device that inserts into the mag well, and then via roller locks, locks into the upper making it impossible to separate the upper from the lower, or do anything with the weapon. it is also designed to make it very difficult to get a set of bolt cutters into the area where the pad lock locks it up.

 

1 Pad lock and keys for the above mentioned KAC solution to preventing unauthorized users.

 

2 QD sling swivels for the owner to mount his or her sling with in the provided QD cups on the carbine.

 

1 SR-15 sticker, cause you gotta represent yo!

 

1 KAC branded hard case.

 

 

Ultimately for a not insignificant amount of money you get a very refined light carbine that shoots well, will probably last longer than a "lesser" carbine under a heavy firing schedule, and that is ready to go out of the box. Just add a sling, an optic if you want, and whatever else you think you need bolted onto the outside but the rifle itself needs basically no upgrades at all.

 

Hope some of you found this interesting.

[KartRacerBoy]

Damn, you are a hairy beast, Penguin.

[THE RZA]

you said it's not Full length gas, but not Midlength gas system, doesn't that make it "carbine" length? I'd also like to see a comparison of the SR-15 with your DD.

[Penguin]

Pengy, TSI, what's your thoughts in Geissele's new single stage precision trigger? same pull weight as the 2 stage SSA-E and SD-E...is 3.5 pull too light for a single stage trigger?

 

I am intrigued by it, but not sure if I see an advantage over what I currently run in my rifles. Though my newest build has an ALG ACT trigger in it, and it's fine but in the future I may upgrade that to the SD-E.

 

For a carbine I don't see much use for it, and some potential downsides like undesired bump firing if the reset is short. I'd stick with a 2 stage on a light carbine that will have more recoil to the rear and movement to the front as the bolt carrier group slams home. That's a recipe for bump fire doubles combined with a short reset trigger and a light trigger pull.

 

Used on a heavy barrel SPR type outfit that will not be moving as much or at all under recoil, the SSP might be a winner for those who like a single stage trigger that breaks like the proverbial glass rod (because all of us know what glass rods feel like to break....:roll eyes:..... cliche'd phrase...).

[Penguin]

Damn, you are a hairy beast, Penguin.

 

Yeah..... arms, legs, face, chest, back, hands, even my damn toes. Sadly the follicles atop my head are no longer interested so much in growing a lot of hair, those lazy fuckers are like the French in 1940: full retreat.

 

I also notice that as I approach 40 years of age, the hair in my nose and my ears seem really really motivated to grow. Broke down and bough an eyebrow, nose hair and ear hair powered trimmer a few months ago.

 

I'll have to live vicariously through my son in the hair on top of head department. He's 9 months old and is growing a luxurious head of blond hair to go with his blue eyes. He looks like I did at his age. Hope he doesn't grow too fond of that full head of hair.

[Penguin]

you said it's not Full length gas, but not Midlength gas system, doesn't that make it "carbine" length? I'd also like to see a comparison of the SR-15 with your DD.

 

No the gas system is longer than a mid length but shorter than rifle length.

 

Way longer than a carbine length gas system.

[Penguin]

you said it's not Full length gas, but not Midlength gas system, doesn't that make it "carbine" length? I'd also like to see a comparison of the SR-15 with your DD.

 

In what specific area do you need a comparison between the two?

[THE RZA]

well DD is probably no different than Colt in terms of milspec parts, but what about in accuracy? DD is most well known for their barrels, as is KAC.

[Penguin]

It's not a good apples to apples comparison at this point, and probably won't be. I haven't run the same loads through both rifles yet for starters, and the DD has had the benefit of a larger higher magnification scope on it.

 

There is also the issue of barrel contour, and the DD is running an 18" S2W contour, which is DD speak for tapered bull barrel. Below is one of my 18" S2W's this one I pulled off for later use and put the junker barrel back in the upper. This one is a mid length, and is lighter because the taper point to the gas block journal happens sooner than the rifle length gas in my complete DD rifle, saving a few ounces. As you can see the barrel is a heavy bastard, you could legitimately beat someone to death with it. Also neither of my DD's are chrome lined, instead they are salt bath nitrided which may contribute a smidge to accuracy potential.

 

 

So far the DD has shot tighter groups, but it's running a bull barrel that adds a solid 1 lb to the rifle and all of it out front. I expect it will still shoot tighter groups than the lightweight KAC hammer forged chrome lined barrel, heavier contour barrels are stiffer and the more often than not shoot better groups. The DD was built more as a game gun, or SPR like rifle so it fills a different role than a jack of all trades master of none general purpose lightweight carbine like the KAC.

 

I really can't complain too much so far with how the KAC is shooting given how light it is, and it's a chrome lined barrel.

 

Also in regards to that Colt, that is my M4A1 roll marked SOCOM II with the M4A1 contour barrel and DD RIS II rail from the factory with FSP cut out. That stupid gun is a ******* freak, barrel is just a chrome lined carbine length gas 16" unit but that medium contour instead of govt' contour makes a difference.... gun is a laser beam with loads it likes. Kind of wish it wasn't a limited run, I'd actually shoot it instead of sit on it as a potential investment.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Penguin

[Penguin]

A more direct comparison would be the KAC SR-15 E3 Mod 2 M-Lok 18" Light Precision Rifle, or upper. That uses a Kreiger cut rifled barrel of similar contour to the DD S2W. My guess is that Kreiger barrel (like all Kreiger barrels) is stupid accurate.

[Penguin]

The KAC as it is currently configured:

 

 

[THE RZA]

I didn’t realize your DD was an 18”, so that makes sense.

 

So my article on the comparison of 4 AR’s got nixed, i still got to temporarily enjoy 4 awesome rifles.

Edited June 18, 2018 by THE RZA

[Penguin]

That sucks. What happened? Publisher didn't appreciate truth telling that rankled manufacturer feathers potentially endangering free swag?

[KartRacerBoy]

Yeah..... arms, legs, face, chest, back, hands, even my damn toes. Sadly the follicles atop my head are no longer interested so much in growing a lot of hair, those lazy fuckers are like the French in 1940: full retreat.

 

I also notice that as I approach 40 years of age, the hair in my nose and my ears seem really really motivated to grow. Broke down and bough an eyebrow, nose hair and ear hair powered trimmer a few months ago.

 

I'll have to live vicariously through my son in the hair on top of head department. He's 9 months old and is growing a luxurious head of blond hair to go with his blue eyes. He looks like I did at his age. Hope he doesn't grow too fond of that full head of hair.

 

I'm am not hairy at all but I had one hair that always grew out of the tip of my nose. My now ex- use to randomly try to pluck it as she went past me, the bitch.

 

All my hair is on my head. At 56, there's no sign of thinning and I'm just starting to get grey on the sides. Not to brag.

 

And yeah, hair everywhere but the head. Life is a bitch. Do you keep a dirt devil by the bed so you can vacuum all of your fur off before making it?

[THE RZA]

That sucks. What happened? Publisher didn't appreciate truth telling that rankled manufacturer feathers potentially endangering free swag?

 

 

 

Something similar was being done by a bigger outlet who he writes for. Though I’d love to talk about how shitty the Sig Sauer M400 is.

[TSiWRX]

True, that’s why i don’t buy cheap parts or buy cheap rifles. I saw this video a few years back and it still resonates, either spend the money on a factory rifle with all the features and build quality you want, or start with a good lower like a Spike’s or Aero Precision and buy quality parts the first time:

 

 

Be careful with Spikes and Aero.

 

 

While I've both seen good (Spikes) and have had good luck with (Aero) lowers, this is not something that's true across-the-board.

 

 

 

Discriminating communities like M4Carbine.net and P&S have both cited more than casual/anecdotal instances of lowers from these makes as being OOS, and also have reported other more major problems, too (Aero, specifically).

 

 

While I do not personally have enough experience with Spikes components to be able to say one way or the other, I do know from personal experience - albeit limited - that Aero's components can be inconsistent.

[TSiWRX]

I also notice that as I approach 40 years of age, the hair in my nose and my ears seem really really motivated to grow. Broke down and bough an eyebrow, nose hair and ear hair powered trimmer a few months ago.

 

 

I'm am not hairy at all but I had one hair that always grew out of the tip of my nose. My now ex- use to randomly try to pluck it as she went past me, the bitch.

 

 

I'm now 43 - I literally noticed this past year that my nose-hairs have not only seemingly become more numerous, but also significantly tougher (either that, or the scissors a lot duller all of a sudden! ).

 

 

I've also got a random blond hair growing out of my right deltoid.

 

 

 

 

------

 

 

 

 

 

RE: triggers -

 

...the SSP might be a winner for those who like a single stage trigger that breaks like the proverbial glass rod (because all of us know what glass rods feel like to break....:roll eyes:..... cliche'd phrase...).

 

 

My occupation allowed me some rather interesting insight into this little tidbit, when I first started in on shooting as a real hobby. As a benchtop scientist, it's not uncommon for me to have to use a glass stir-rod. You can actually get them on eBay for pretty cheap.

 

 

 

Pro-tip: wear cut-resistant gloves when you're doing this, or just tape the pad of your finger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----

 

 

RE: THE RZA's article -

 

 

Man, that sucks!

 

 

 

Can you post the article, here, THE RZA? Or at least post your thoughts on the Sig?

[KartRacerBoy]

My nephew had a unibrow by the time he was 13. When he got haircuts, his mom ordered the barber to prune above the nose. Now that he's an adult he does not follow this regimen as he should.

 

And for you men with nose hair issues, forget scissors. Electric nose hair trimmers. It is disconcerting to talk to someone while they stare at your braided nosehairs.

[THE RZA]

Be careful with Spikes and Aero.

 

 

While I've both seen good (Spikes) and have had good luck with (Aero) lowers, this is not something that's true across-the-board.

 

 

 

Discriminating communities like M4Carbine.net and P&S have both cited more than casual/anecdotal instances of lowers from these makes as being OOS, and also have reported other more major problems, too (Aero, specifically).

 

 

While I do not personally have enough experience with Spikes components to be able to say one way or the other, I do know from personal experience - albeit limited - that Aero's components can be inconsistent.

 

 

Many on reddit will argue a stripped lower is a stripped lower, I disagree because i’ve seen cheap lowers crack at the buffer threading from recoil. (See Anderson and Palmetto State)

 

Spike’s makes good stuff, for someone on a “budget” that’s as cheap as I would go for starting with a stripped lower. I agree aero precision is inconsistent but having this discussion on reddit with 20 somethings falls on deaf ears.

 

Since my article got nixed on comparing rifles i’ll give you guys the details:

 

BCM Gunfighter Jack ($2000-2200 street price): i liked this rifle a lot. In this price range for a DI rifle you’re looking at DD, KAC, Noveske etc. it took a beating, thru a 2000 round bumpfire test and another 2000 rounds of various shooting drills it didn’t show any wear. Shot sub MOA at 100 yards using 62 gr Hornady black and even better with Black Hills 77gr HPBT. My only gripe is they went for a $500 Geissele rail but a $60 ACT trigger. BCM makes just as good rails where they could save money and put a SD-C trigger in. High value for the money

 

Noveske Chainsaw ($1800 street price): similar to the BCM, almost identical results, same trigger, I was skeptical about Noveske, my girlfriend has the Ghetto Blaster and I wasn’t crazy about it. Shooting this rifle lead to me building a Noveske of my own which came to $1500 total build price. Noveske is a “parts” rifle but they put the best parts together in a rifle. The Barrel is Pacnor, but it is a proprietary cut and rifling to John Noveske’s standard from when he worked there, Rubber City Armory BCG, only thing Noveske makes themselves is the lower and the rails I believe. For $1800 it’s a good rifle but Unless you really want a Noveske Rifle, you aren’t missing out if you go for BCM, DD or another brand. (Speaking of, TSI lmk if RCA ever does a factory sale)

 

Windham Weaponry Way of The Gun( $1300-1600 street price): I really liked this rifle. It’s Windham’s “high end” rifle tricked out with a BCM Mod O brake, Midwest Industries 15” keymod rail, CMC flat face trigger, Magpul MOE grip and MOE stock. A majority of WW’s rifles have that bland A2 look so it sticks out from their lineup. 100 yards shot 1.5 MOA with Hornady Black 62 gr, sub MOA with black hills 77gr hpbt. Windham Weaponry isn’t known for their precision so the right ammo said something. Bumpfire test this rifle was fine and all the other abuse showed minimal wear. For $1600 or less this rifle gives you a lot for your money. Transferrable lifetime warranty as well which is rare.

 

Sig Sauer M400 Elite Ti ($900-1200 street price): If you’re on a budget and you want a tacticool rifle, go for it. If not, save your money. I wish Sig Sauer stuck to making products they do best. The Romeo Red Dot isn’t good, cheap cerakote job, trigger was too jerky there just wasn’t much to love. I do love the Rail but i’m positive it’s a Midwest Industries Rail. Accuracy wise it shot 3 MOA with Hornady Black and 1.5 MOA with the black hills. Doing the bumpfire test the bolt looked like a sledgehammer was taken to it. I had to sign an NDA with sig that I wouldn’t share photos of the damages since we didn’t publish the article. Sig made this rifle to have something in the low price point market, they put no effort in to it.

 

Colt LE6920 ($600-900 street price): it’s good rifle, if an A2/M4 look alike doesn’t bother you it’s a great rifle for the money as many of us know since we owned one. Great barrel, pretty good BCG and internal parts, it’s a solid platform with room to modify to your liking. The trigger sucks but that’s not any news. Bump fire test showed no signs of wear, for this i liked the A2 handguard because the double heat shield LOL. Accuracy was 2 MOA with hornady black. 1.5 MOA with the Black Hills, i owe a lot of this to the trigger, but for the money, it’s a great rifle for all levels.

 

So to rank them (overall experiences)

1. BCM Gunfighter Jack

2. Windham Weaponry Way of the Gun

3. Noveske Chainsaw

4. Colt LE6920

5. Sig Sauer M400

 

All Rifles were tested with a Trijicon MRO and a Trijcon Accupower

 

 

You might be wondering, did I like any of them more than my LWRC? No

Edited June 19, 2018 by THE RZA