Official Firearm Thread V3

[BDII]

Press checks; you can't tell it's loaded by the feel of the slide going into battery and by checking the seating of the magazine?

[TSiWRX]

Press checks: because shit happens.

 

It's really as simple as that. There's a reason why this was erected outside the Alliance PD Shoot House facility and wears endorsement from the late Pat Rogers' EAG -

 

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh515/EAG_TACTICAL/Brady%202012%20C2/217_zps3b98593d.jpg

 

 

There's times that doing it is the smart thing to do.

 

And yup, there's times that doing it is just the tactiturd thing to do.

Edited September 14, 2017 by TSi+WRX

[BDII]

Wow... I would not join a range that is asking for it's members to have an out of battery detonation.

 

That's nuts.

[TSiWRX]

Wow... I would not join a range that is asking for it's members to have an out of battery detonation.

 

That's nuts.

 

 

Please explain?

 

How will the above procedures lead to an OOB-KB? It's specifically designed to insure that no-one dicks things up on the admin make-ready and that the weapons are properly prepared for work, period.

 

This isn't a public range. It's the Alliance PD Training Facility.

Edited September 14, 2017 by TSi+WRX

[rodan]

A press check is a normal part of the loading procedure. If the gun is functioning properly, it's just short of impossible to have an out of battery ignition during a press check.

[Penguin]

Wow... I would not join a range that is asking for it's members to have an out of battery detonation.

 

That's nuts.

 

Going to have to disagree. Press checks are useful, and when properly executed will not result in an out of battery detonation. Just do the press check on the pistol, look and feel for a round being in the chamber and let the slide forward and then firmly bump the back of the slide with your hand to ensure you have a fully seated slide. Same for the rifle, use the forward assist to ensure the bolt is closed and carrier is seated all the way forward. Then do your magazine top offs, reinsert mags, and ensure they are seated.

[1fast4by]

What's the ******* point of that shit?

 

Seriously? It's not art work like engraving from a master engraver. Nor is any of that shit going to functionally enhance the pistol. Does the extra mill work make it more reliable? Nope, probably the opposite.

 

Glocktards are amusing to me.

 

 

One of the dumbest reactions ever... You say that, yet as an automotive enthusiast you must keep all your vehicle stock right? All manufacturers make a perfect product for everybody right... Hypocritical much yes?

 

and No, it will run and run just like anything stock and of quality, nothing has been changed in any of its firing mechanisms other that to lighten trigger pull

[1fast4by]

Meh..

 

 

[Penguin]

One of the dumbest reactions ever... You say that, yet as an automotive enthusiast you must keep all your vehicle stock right? All manufacturers make a perfect product for everybody right... Hypocritical much yes?

 

and No, it will run and run just like anything stock and of quality, nothing has been changed in any of its firing mechanisms other that to lighten trigger pull

 

If a vehicle is going to get modified by me, cosmetics are bottom priority.

 

The machine work done to that slide has no functional value at all. None. Frankly all you've accomplished is introducing windows in the slide to allow crud, lint, dirt, etc to enter the slide assembly. That's not going to enhance reliability. Reducing slide weight might give you a theoretical advantage in muzzle rise due to less reciprocal mass, but unless you're a top level competitive shooter you'll never tell the difference. The flip side of that is the slide has less mass moving forward to strip rounds out of the magazine and chamber the round, that reduced mass imparts less momentum to overcome fouling, debris (that you're allowing in the pistol now), and other non ideal operating conditions.

 

You've made game gun modifications to a duty gun, now it's compromised as a duty grade firearm, and still won't be a competitive game gun. Not sure what the point is? If pointing this out makes me an asshole, then guilty as charged.

[1fast4by]

If I ever get to a point in my life where that gun is my "duty" gun....well then, Ive made some bad decisions.

I have 3 G19s could give a damn less.... The machine work done to the slide was never to improve a goddamn thing but aesthetics... As anyone with any intelligence would have thought... Its a firearm that I have modified for nothing other than my pleasure.... The fact that I have to explain that is quite frankly shocking... Wow..

simply mind boggling

 

At this point you're simply trolling, and it's stupid...

 

 

"Oh no! Boo the guy that spent money to customize something that he likes for reasons that he likes!"

fcuking ridiculous....

 

You're ridiculous, and hypocritical. I spent money on something I wanted to, to modify it the way I wanted to. It still functions the way its supposed to ... and your argument is invalid, and looks stupid... You dont like it.... I dont give a ****, you didnt build it.

 

By those very same standards... You being an enthusiast for a nich car is stupid, perhaps I like Mustangs, and therefore you are stupid....

 

Good lord.....

Edited September 15, 2017 by 1fast4by

[1fast4by]

And, this is my carry...

[Penguin]

If I ever get to a point in my life where that gun is my "duty" gun....well then, Ive made some bad decisions.

I have 3 G19s could give a damn less.... The machine work done to the slide was never to improve a goddamn thing but aesthetics... As anyone with any intelligence would have thought... Its a firearm that I have modified for nothing other than my pleasure.... The fact that I have to explain that is quite frankly shocking... Wow..

simply mind boggling

 

At this point you're simply trolling, and it's stupid...

 

 

"Oh no! Boo the guy that spent money to customize something that he likes for reasons that he likes!"

fcuking ridiculous....

 

You're ridiculous, and hypocritical. I spent money on something I wanted to, to modify it the way I wanted to. It still functions the way its supposed to ... and your argument is invalid, and looks stupid... You dont like it.... I dont give a ****, you didnt build it.

 

By those very same standards... You being an enthusiast for a nich car is stupid, perhaps I like Mustangs, and therefore you are stupid....

 

Good lord.....

 

Boo hoo. I'm not impressed by your gat.

 

If you don't care, why respond? You were trolling for compliments like some sort of insecure high school girl sharing a photo expecting nice comments. Sorry pal, but I'm not here to hand out compliments to people doing unoriginal stuff for the sake of aesthetics. Particularly when no skill is involved. I wouldn't personally have a firearm engraved, but I can appreciate the artistry and skill that goes into high level engraving. These fad pistol slides with extra milling cuts made on CNC equipment? Lame ass no talent ass clown shit.

[Sparkey]

Press checks are useful,

 

 

The machine work done to that slide has no functional value at all. None. Frankly all you've accomplished is introducing windows in the slide to allow crud, lint, dirt, etc to enter the slide assembly. That's not going to enhance reliability. Reducing slide weight might give you a theoretical advantage in muzzle rise due to less reciprocal mass, but unless you're a top level competitive shooter you'll never tell the difference. The flip side of that is the slide has less mass moving forward to strip rounds out of the magazine and chamber the round, that reduced mass imparts less momentum to overcome fouling, debris (that you're allowing in the pistol now), and other non ideal operating conditions.

 

You've made game gun modifications to a duty gun, now it's compromised as a duty grade firearm, and still won't be a competitive game gun. Not sure what the point is? If pointing this out makes me an asshole, then guilty as charged.

 

 

Wow, just wow. Like in Billy Madison - I feel stupider for having read that.

 

You have stated press checks are useful - but serrations to make press checks easier are not functional? Hmmm... Sounds like someones jelly!

 

Chris Costa has done the same thing with his gun. Would you tell him he made a huge mistake too? Those modifications arent for everyone, and they can be done to a wide varying degree - but Costa isnt exactly some schmoe off the street but he obviously sees some merit to these modifications.

 

I'd be curious to hear what your ideal "game gun" (I assume you mean "Competition") would be. Are we talking IDPA? IPSC? 3-Gun open class? Or is this my 10th gun and so I probably dont need another duty gun, let's do something fun with it?

 

That post wouldnt make you an asshole if you actually had a valid point. You dont seem to have run a gun set up as such - maybe you should quit being a Fudd and try it? Who know's... you may be able to be a better shooter with something like that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYrSFRkue3Y - You could learn a LOT from this video (unless costa's just some hack like that old cheat Jerry Michulek) but theres a lot of good information so you should just skip to the 20 min mark where he talks about how useless those slide cuts are or how you dont tune them out. Like those silly people that get pro tunes when they install performance parts...

 

 

If you wanted to stick with the benefits are minimal if at all noticeable I'd cut you some slack, but you went full retard with "no function at all. none".

 

Here's some more duty guns that likely cant hit the broad side of a barn or run a full mag...

 

http://blog.robballen.com/images/Windows-Live-Writer/Ladies-and-Gentlemen-and-you-too-pdb_12A95/image_2.png

Edited September 15, 2017 by Sparkey

[Sparkey]

Wow... I would not join a range that is asking for it's members to have an out of battery detonation.

 

That's nuts.

 

Striker fired guns cant fire out of battery even if you try. The gun would have to have a mechanical failure or the ammo would have to go off on its own. If a press check sets a round off, you were bound to have a problem sooner or later - or its just a Taurus or Sig P320

 

Boo hoo. I'm not impressed by your gat.

 

If you don't care, why respond? You were trolling for compliments like some sort of insecure high school girl sharing a photo expecting nice comments. Sorry pal, but I'm not here to hand out compliments to people doing unoriginal stuff for the sake of aesthetics. Particularly when no skill is involved. I wouldn't personally have a firearm engraved, but I can appreciate the artistry and skill that goes into high level engraving. These fad pistol slides with extra milling cuts made on CNC equipment? Lame ass no talent ass clown shit.

 

Max butt hurt/jelly mode achieved!

 

Thats the type of garbage I'd expect on B-ARFcom.

[Merc6]

Striker fired guns cant fire out of battery even if you try. The gun would have to have a mechanical failure or the ammo would have to go off on its own. If a press check sets a round off, you were bound to have a problem sooner or later - or its just a Taurus or Sig P320

 

 

My P80 build would only fire out of battery with the Double Diamond connector installed. Last night I tried using it again and ended up taking the back plate and striker out to get the slide back off. This gun wants a whole drop in trigger or nothing at all. DD 3.5 lb connector went back into my actual G17 and polished OEM connector back into the P80.

 

I'm not against press checks but from having 2 LCI Glocks (G17 and G22) I just relied on the LCI feel and the fact you can see the brass from the side of the gun. My 1911 and the S&W hole in the chamber is only useful in good light so it's possible for me to press check it and I like the front fish scales for that reason.

 

As for the cuts, I see it from both sides of the fence especially when you start tossing in stronger heavier guide rods and RMRs. Some people say get the maritime spring cups and others say don't if I' don't plan on a fishing trip with my gun. Fe me and my build, I'll most likely have a non cut slide with front serrations and no RMR in the event I do carry it. My P80 build started off to try and bee like all the crazy Agency/Salient/Zev/GS/Wheaten/Norsso/Lone Wolf builds. Now I'm just trying to get reliability out of it and stock seems to be it. Stock Glock rails allow you to assemble the slide over the rear rails where the clearance on this build won't. The P80 lower tolerances are way tighter to the point I don't thing I could withstand light sand on the rails and still work like a Glock.

 

My wish list would simply be at this time Stipple the P80 and laser the Glock like this here. Pattern I'm still debating for both.

 

[BDII]

Going to have to disagree. Press checks are useful, and when properly executed will not result in an out of battery detonation. Just do the press check on the pistol, look and feel for a round being in the chamber and let the slide forward and then firmly bump the back of the slide with your hand to ensure you have a fully seated slide. Same for the rifle, use the forward assist to ensure the bolt is closed and carrier is seated all the way forward. Then do your magazine top offs, reinsert mags, and ensure they are seated.

 

Do you spend much time around new shooters?

 

I hate to have to say this, but if you need to press check to confirm your pistol is loaded you need training. I can feel it in the way the slide closes. I can feel it in the way the magazine feels when I check its seating.

 

Press checks are a quick way to DQ in IDPA and USPSA.

 

I shoot about 10k pistol rounds and I never press check and never not have a round in the chamber. Does that mean I pull the slide back and every time it catches a round? Nope. Like I said. I can feel it.

[TSiWRX]

Do you spend much time around new shooters?

 

I'm not Penguin, but I'll step in to answer this portion of the debate as this concerns me as well.

 

I actually spend most of my time around newer shooters. I still consider myself a newer shooter, with just short of six years' worth of involvement in the hobby/sport myself.

 

I hate to have to say this, but if you need to press check to confirm your pistol is loaded you need training. I can feel it in the way the slide closes. I can feel it in the way the magazine feels when I check its seating.

 

Press checks are a quick way to DQ in IDPA and USPSA.

 

I shoot about 10k pistol rounds and I never press check and never not have a round in the chamber. Does that mean I pull the slide back and every time it catches a round? Nope. Like I said. I can feel it.

And I hate to have to say it, too, but relying on the feel of that slide or bolt going home is a sure way to drop a round on an empty chamber at some point.

 

The magazine seating against a closed slide or bolt will feel just the same whether that top round managed to get sent where it's supposed to go or not.

 

And just because a magazine feels like it locked in correctly still leaves plenty of opportunity events to occur so that the top round doesn't make it into the chamber properly. Maybe the shooter's hand slips off the slide ever so slightly and thus fails to get it far back enough to chamber a round in his handgun. Maybe it's a defective magazine that incurred a stoppage in his AR. The chamber-check, in being a pre-engagement check of the gun's readiness to do battle will pick up on both of these not at all uncommon instances.

 

And while more experienced shooters can typically rely on subjective "feel," the problem is that when under stress, things tend to go sideways, and that subjectivity can be very problematic. Why did the late Pat Rogers endorse that signage outside the shoot-house at Alliance? It's because plenty enough high-speed guys and gals have managed to Moose-Cock this most basic pre-action sequence.

 

There is no need to press-check *_every_* time a new magazine is inserted. There's good times to press-check (i.e. administrative, when-possible/appropriate if "tactical" reloading/reloading-with-retention [particularly if that magazine was "light" or if the mag was outright seen by the shooter to be empty upon that reload (in this context, there is then virtually no way to be absolutely certain if there's still one in the chamber, or if maybe under stress the shooter manage to somehow mis-work the slide-lock/release], etc.), and there's just plain stupid and incorrect times to do it.

 

And if this DQ's you during competition - as it will in some formats - then that, I submit, is a most improper time to execute the technique.

 

To-wit, is it not logical to reason that we should not allow the rules of any one particular game, training circumstance, or facility rule to dictate *_ALL_* that we do?

 

Muzzle up/down comes into play in a multi-story structure or where the structure has certain specific vulnerabilities (single-story shoothouse with catwalk for observers? muzzle up may be a safety violation; a boat? muzzle-down may not be the best muzzle-aversion techniques to utilize). Is the 180-break valid in a 360-degree shoot-house environment (be it live-fire or FoF), or is that - something that will also get a shooter DQ'ed or flagged for a safety violation on a flat-range - simply an artificiality imposed by circumstance? Am I going to yell at an LE that he's "breaking the 180 and that I'm going to DQ him," when he drops his handgun to SUL or football-carries his AR so that he can haul ass to (or away) from the sound of gunshots in a public venue? Circumstances, right?

 

In the end, the press-check is a technique, and like every other proven and validated technique, there's both a reason for its existence as well as proper (and of-course improper) practices of it.

 

The guys at the range who are constantly press-checking or doing other tactical douchery? Those television stars that have a press-check written into their role? That's just stupidity x 2.

 

 

-------

 

 

And as for the dress-up Glocks - or any other guns for that matter.

 

Cosmetics is just cosmetics, and what floats any one person's boat is what I consider to be just that. If it makes that person happy in the crotch when he/she pulls it out of the holster or the case, hey, more power to them.

 

Functionally, with those slide cuts, I've actually gotta say that I've never seen such guns shit the bed even in very high-round-count classes where the guns get extremely, extremely dirty. And we're not talking about carbon build-up, here, like on a competition gun. We're talking about sand, mud, dirt, grass, etc. that comes from repeated ground-work drills and the like. Granted, *_every_* gun encounters stoppages under such conditions: but my point is that they don't seem to encounter stoppages any more or less frequently. Personally, at least in terms of state-side non-"wartime" use, I don't see a problem even with these things being duty or other hard-use pieces. Of-course, it's uber-unlikely that they'd ever be allowed as duty weapons (seeing the glacial pace at which even the now rather proven slide-mounted micro-RDS is being adopted), but I'm not going to look cross-eyed at someone showing up to a class with one.

 

That said, in a zombie apocalypse scenario, I'd likely pick something else.

 

And Sparkey, be careful in using celebrity examples when speaking of hardware.

 

It's an industry.

 

Those guys and gals do benefit from using that hardware, and while their personal examples may be stellar, that cannot always be said of the same hardware that's cranked out for us masses of the unwashed.

 

That's not to say that I haven't seen Agency/Zev/whatevertheflavorofthemonthisforsoupedupblastershappenstobe guns absolutely rock it out in various classes, but I will say that I am also not the only one who have seen them, first hand, completely fail to perform in that same context.

 

So with that, I go back to 1fast4by -

 

The machine work done to the slide was never to improve a goddamn thing but aesthetics... As anyone with any intelligence would have thought... Its a firearm that I have modified for nothing other than my pleasure.... The fact that I have to explain that is quite frankly shocking... Wow..

simply mind boggling

 

Now I have to call that as being insincere.

 

This kind of judgement call is made on virtually every gun forum - there's always going to be those who like such work and those who absolutely hate it just as much.

 

I think that in having the hardware you obviously have, you know this to be true, and what's more, have also seen it in other Forums as well. I think that some members here may have been a bit unkind in how they voiced their opinions and you are - understandably - reacting in the same way, but really, can't we all just let it all be bygones, and at least recognize that we're all Subaru lovers who also love guns?

 

And heck, this is a car fourm, after all: look at the hate we have for "Ricers" (whatever that term is supposed to describe, as I know plenty of Euro-trash drivers who regard anyone who drives a Far-East branded vehicle as a "ricer," no matter how many horses are under the hood or how fast it runs the quarter or how many of those same high-priced Euros they can lay waste to on the track). How can we be expected not to pass such judgements!

Edited September 15, 2017 by TSi+WRX

[Eugene Onegin]

Fun to shoot.

[Sparkey]

My P80 build would only fire out of battery with the Double Diamond connector installed. Last night I tried using it again and ended up taking the back plate and striker out to get the slide back off. This gun wants a whole drop in trigger or nothing at all. DD 3.5 lb connector went back into my actual G17 and polished OEM connector back into the P80.

 

I'm not against press checks but from having 2 LCI Glocks (G17 and G22) I just relied on the LCI feel and the fact you can see the brass from the side of the gun. My 1911 and the S&W hole in the chamber is only useful in good light so it's possible for me to press check it and I like the front fish scales for that reason.

 

As for the cuts, I see it from both sides of the fence especially when you start tossing in stronger heavier guide rods and RMRs. Some people say get the maritime spring cups and others say don't if I' don't plan on a fishing trip with my gun. Fe me and my build, I'll most likely have a non cut slide with front serrations and no RMR in the event I do carry it. My P80 build started off to try and bee like all the crazy Agency/Salient/Zev/GS/Wheaten/Norsso/Lone Wolf builds. Now I'm just trying to get reliability out of it and stock seems to be it. Stock Glock rails allow you to assemble the slide over the rear rails where the clearance on this build won't. The P80 lower tolerances are way tighter to the point I don't thing I could withstand light sand on the rails and still work like a Glock.

 

My wish list would simply be at this time Stipple the P80 and laser the Glock like this here. Pattern I'm still debating for both.

 

 

Like someone else said - I think press checks have their time and place. But theres a reason RSO's usually make you show clear and not show me your LCI. I've seen the LCI fail

 

When you say P80 you're talking polymer 80% right? Something has to be wrong I'd bet - I can not get any of my three glocks, my two SD9's, or M&P to fire out of battery. The M&P only needed a small amount, the glock needed more. One glocks stock, the other two have Ghost/RYG connectors, springs, and trigger stop.

 

Just like in the Costa video I posted - its not for everyone, and it has advantages and disadvantages. But when someone wants to claim it has zero function, I have to laugh and say something.

[Sparkey]

Do you spend much time around new shooters?

 

I hate to have to say this, but if you need to press check to confirm your pistol is loaded you need training. I can feel it in the way the slide closes. I can feel it in the way the magazine feels when I check its seating.

 

Press checks are a quick way to DQ in IDPA and USPSA.

 

I shoot about 10k pistol rounds and I never press check and never not have a round in the chamber. Does that mean I pull the slide back and every time it catches a round? Nope. Like I said. I can feel it.

 

I cant say I find any rules that state Press checks are an Auto DQ - I've also never heard of this before. Please explain how IDPA and USPSA would DQ you for a press check.

 

Also funny that you say you need training if you press check... all of my training has taught me to press check. NEVER to trust by feel or because you "know". Its not a "Need" to do it - its just the best way if you're unsure. LCI's can fail.

 

Good to know that because it's never happened to you - it will never happen to anybody. Except it has, in a time of need.

[Sparkey]

And Sparkey, be careful in using celebrity examples when speaking of hardware.

 

It's an industry.

 

Those guys and gals do benefit from using that hardware, and while their personal examples may be stellar, that cannot always be said of the same hardware that's cranked out for us masses of the unwashed.

 

That's not to say that I haven't seen Agency/Zev/whatevertheflavorofthemonthisforsoupedupblastershappenstobe guns absolutely rock it out in various classes, but I will say that I am also not the only one who have seen them, first hand, completely fail to perform in that same context.

 

True, its an industry - but Costa is an Instructor and he doesnt tell you to run what he brought - but explains the merits of such modifications and has found that many people can improve with them. Its not like he's the LAV pushing Crisco-clean (Fireclean) - Costa seems to have a genuine interest in making people a better shooter more then selling a gun. He sold like 20 of his signature gun in one minute. Why stop if its just the money and such he's after?

 

Just for clairification - I dont believe adding these parts or doing these things automatically can make you a better shooter. Its just tools or techniques to possibly make a good shooter better.

 

The statment I was rebuting however was "Those cuts/serrations have zero function. They also would jam up with debris". When this is clearly not true. From there we need to take it case by case. Those guns that failed - were they tuned? How did they fail to perform? Light primer strikes? FTF? OOB-KB? How many rounds had been through them?

 

I feel like if this was about car parts, the argument would be "Putting on performance parts or making the car lighter does nothing to the car" and "Those performance parts made the car fail or decrease reliability". When we know theres factors like tune and supporting mods that also come into play. And yes, not everyone needs a 350whp Daily driver. But a lot of us would like it.

[TSiWRX]

True, its an industry - but Costa is an Instructor and he doesnt tell you to run what he brought - but explains the merits of such modifications and has found that many people can improve with them. Its not like he's the LAV pushing Crisco-clean (Fireclean) - Costa seems to have a genuine interest in making people a better shooter more then selling a gun. He sold like 20 of his signature gun in one minute. Why stop if its just the money and such he's after?

 

I've taken classes with Costa. This was from the summer of 2012 here in NE-Ohio, my second year shooting (you can tell, because I've got shit recoil management ) :

 

https://imgur.com/xnkeQ4u

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAP2dfwnYSQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[ BTW, that press-check wasn't to look cool: it was to be sure that I didn't look the ass and click-instead-of-bang in front of the 30-odd students plus Costa and his AIs watching on, as we headed into that end-of-day contest. Similarly, I'm not tapping the back of that slide to be dynamically disruptive - I'm doing it because, as you can see from my pants and shoes, we'd done so much ground-work that day that everyone's gun had ingested a large amount of dirt and grit, and a lot of us (myself included, as I had elected to not lube or clean my gun at all during those three days, to see how and why it will malfunction when under such demands) started to see FTBs as the day wore on. To expand on the contest, it was 5 shots to each target, with a forced reload in between the 10th and 11th rounds out; the steel were TacStriker Quarters, and hits counted anywhere on the plate; paper was VTAC, and hits had to be within the eyebox only - any miss was an automatic DQ. ]

 

And yes, he genuinely wants to help each and every one of his students shoot better, and yes, he definitely does say to all his students that they should just run what they'd brung (although if you show up to his classes like I did, with XDs, he'll ride your ass ): no sales pitches. I very much enjoyed my time with him and learned a lot from him, and I have no reservations in taking another class from him. I have been with enough big names in the industry now to know that yes, while these guys are there to make money, they also really want to make their students better shooters, and that to accomplish that goal, they look at helping the student build their TTPs almost to the exclusion of hardware (unless that hardware plain sucks, in which case many of them will tell you exactly why they dislike said hardware).

 

But no matter what, these guys are tied into the machine that is in the industry, and what they take the time to show off in their hands or on their persons in social media, in DVDs, and even live in their training classes are there for very, very specific reasons - and that's to drive sales for those vendors who supply these famous faces with such items.

 

I believe very strongly that to think otherwise is quite naive...and I really, really do think that the many instances and examples of these high-dollar guns (as they are sold to the average consumer, directly from their makers - and no, this isn't from second-hand range-talk, this is from actually seeing these very guns in the hands of average-Joe/Jane students as they bring them to classes) not working correctly is very telling.

 

Just for clairification - I dont believe adding these parts or doing these things automatically can make you a better shooter.

Understood, and I wholeheartedly agree.

 

The statment I was rebuting however was "Those cuts/serrations have zero function. They also would jam up with debris". When this is clearly not true. From there we need to take it case by case. Those guns that failed - were they tuned? How did they fail to perform? Light primer strikes? FTF? OOB-KB? How many rounds had been through them?

 

I feel like if this was about car parts, the argument would be "Putting on performance parts or making the car lighter does nothing to the car" and "Those performance parts made the car fail or decrease reliability". When we know theres factors like tune and supporting mods that also come into play. And yes, not everyone needs a 350whp Daily driver. But a lot of us would like it.

This I can agree with as well.

 

I think too much is made of the possibility that those cuts will ingest too much crap and shut the gun down. It's really not the case at all. I'm sure that yes, it'll shut down sooner than that same gun, without, but even so, it's gonna take a heck of a lot - or that true "one-in-a-million" happenstance of just the right thing in just the right place (but then again, this can also happen with factory-stock guns, and this is something that I think that any of us who have shot enough have seen).

Edited September 15, 2017 by TSi+WRX

[Penguin]

Do you spend much time around new shooters?

 

I hate to have to say this, but if you need to press check to confirm your pistol is loaded you need training. I can feel it in the way the slide closes. I can feel it in the way the magazine feels when I check its seating.

 

Press checks are a quick way to DQ in IDPA and USPSA.

 

I shoot about 10k pistol rounds and I never press check and never not have a round in the chamber. Does that mean I pull the slide back and every time it catches a round? Nope. Like I said. I can feel it.

 

No thank god.

 

On the press check I should clarify, I don't advocate doing this on every reload. It's a pre combat check before the pistol goes in the holster, or I step off with the rifle. Sure there is a distinct feel and sound when a round is chambered, but I will never rely on that alone for initial loading if serious business may be at hand. This is a training issue for me as well, that how I have been trained to do it, by individuals with relevant experience. The last class I attended had us done by drills in small groups more or less on our own program, no proctoring to load and make ready or any other regular administrative range commands. This was intentional to force personal accountability. Most shooters had at least one instance of a "click" when they needed "bang", self implementation of a regimented loading procedure including a press check solved this issue.

[TSiWRX]

^ Win.

 

You said that so much better than I can.

[Sparkey]

I've taken classes with Costa. This was from the summer of 2012 here in NE-Ohio, my second year shooting (you can tell, because I've got shit recoil management ) :

 

So much jelly right now I need moar better training.

 

I see your point - thats why I dont say what these guys teach is Gospel. I like to listen to what they say and decide if that bit is information or shilling. I cant blame them for wanting to make a good living - and product placement or slapping your name on things does that well. I really commend those that dont seem to focus on products/theatrics and their top priority is student advancement and thats who I try and point to. I just dont think using a local guy as an authority on gun stuff is as effective as Costa/Haley saying the same thing. You can bet you'll never see me in 5.11 trying to do bag over my head drills because Instructor Zero did it and is a good shot.

 

I guess I can say I'm not a big fan of blanket statments.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Sparkey