FLUIDMPR Crank Pulleys (for EJ and FA Motors)

[Perscitus]

For anyone with a 5th gen EJ and interested or in the market for a LWCP, I'd skip any LWCP (and I have one installed, maybe removing it soon)

and go with a Fluidmpr pulley for the EJs. (Part # 531101). Worth every $$$.

 

But EJs and FAs are serviced:

EJs (MIGHT NOT fit 2010-12 LGTs, but it does fit other EJs and 2015+ STIs) http://www.fluidampr.com/product/531101/

FAs (including FA20DIT) http://www.fluidampr.com/product/571101/

 

Decent EJ review:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...16&postcount=5

 

Some more info:

http://www.fluidampr.com/what/

 

YouTube video on FA20DIT

 

When monitoring SSM params before/after an install, its clear that the knock sensors pickup less 'false knock' with a fluidmpr.

Less FKC, Less FLKC, Learned Ignition Timing goes up, IAM remains more stable.

Base/KCA timing limits can typically be increased (if needed) to potentially net more gains.

 

For the EZ30 and EZ36D crowd - I've been working with Fluidmpr for over a year (maybe two?) to bring a 3.0R/3.6R one to market, with little progress.

Likely #becausenomarketforH6fluidmpr (or so they say).

 

For some reason the fact that the same exact pulley would fit all MY Tribecas, all MY 4th gen 3.0Rs, all MY 5th/6th gen 3.6Rs, doesn't help .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance

[GTEASER]

How does the Fluidampr compare to the stock pulley in terms of weight? You say it is better than a LWCP, but is it better than the stock pulley and why?

[Golferdude1087]

Perscitus, I might join you on the hunt for getting this over here. I think the XRT guys would all be interested as well. Maybe with enough of us they might consider a small quantity made.

[Perscitus]

Fluidmprs are typically a bit heavier than stock BUT not all of that weight is rotational mass.

 

For the EJ I see:

Fluidmpr Weight (Rotating Weight): 6.9 lb (4.6lb)

OEM EJ Pulley: ~ 5.2 lb

 

Performance is actually improved. I've seen it in action on a BRZ (before/after) and now have first hand experience on a Stage 2 WRX (brother's car).

We just installed it last week and logged SSM params before/after - clearly far less knock detected by the knock sensors, increased mid-range torque and top-end power.

Zero negative side effects vs stock. Engine and crankshaft actually benefit from decreased n-th order vibrations.

[GTEASER]

I get some low load, low rpm, engine vac, balanced throttle feedback knock in both my GT and FXT, moreso in the FXT I think because of the torque converter, never on boost, just while cruising, mostly when gears bog a little because of a slight incline in the roadway. You're saying that this lessens that feedback knock.

[Perscitus]

Perscitus, I might join you on the hunt for getting this over here. I think the XRT guys would all be interested as well. Maybe with enough of us they might consider a small quantity made.

That would be great. Give them a call and say you're interested in one.

They had my OEM pulley in hand for a few months, didn't find any current pulley they manufacturer that would work or could be modified (easily) so that they could manufacture a small batch for EZ36Ds.

 

They'd need to see that there is a market for these, which I think is questionable. Benefits - sure. Steep price tag - also. Count of potential EZ30R/EZ36D or FB owners who care? Low.

 

EJs and FAs on the other hand... plenty. Lucky dogs.

[Perscitus]

I get some low load, low rpm, engine vac, balanced throttle feedback knock in both my GT and FXT, moreso in the FXT I think because of the torque converter, never on boost, just while cruising, mostly when gears bog a little because of a slight incline in the roadway. You're saying that this lessens that feedback knock.

Correct.

[ChrisCrash]

I get "false" knock counts in cyl 4 by just blipping the throttle without moving. With the increased weight of the pulley you're saying it would decrease these?

 

Is that because the extra weight increases the pressure? Or the extra weight slows the piston slightly to correct timing?

[Golferdude1087]

Fluidmprs are typically a bit heavier than stock BUT not all of that weight is rotational mass.

 

For the EJ I see:

Fluidmpr Weight (Rotating Weight): 5.8 lb (3.8 lb)

OEM EJ Pulley: ~ 5.2 lb

.

 

Thats the FA numbers

the EJ is 6.9 (4.6). Still a significant difference

[mcg_]

Does it say on their website that this works for 5th Gen LGTs? It was my understanding that typical LWCPs for EJ engines don't work for the 5th Gen LGTS, and thus, this is why msprank made some....

[Perscitus]

Thats the FA numbers

the EJ is 6.9 (4.6). Still a significant difference

Thx. Fixed. I did pull up the BA specs.

Either way - the Fluidmpr for any given model/make is typically a bit heavier (about 1lb) over stock.

However, not all of that weight is rotational mass.

[Ellesedil]

Does it say on their website that this works for 5th Gen LGTs? It was my understanding that typical LWCPs for EJ engines don't work for the 5th Gen LGTS, and thus, this is why msprank made some....

 

Except, this isn't a LWCP from what I can tell. This is actually heavier than stock.

 

I understand the concept behind a LWCP. Except for reducing some false knock detection, I definitely do not understand why I'd want one of these instead.

 

However, not all of that weight is rotational mass.

 

Can you explain this one? If the pulley has mass, the engine has to rotate it. How can some of the mass not be rotational mass? Or are you really saying that the "additional mass" is simply located towards the center instead of out to the edges?

[Perscitus]

I get "false" knock counts in cyl 4 by just blipping the throttle without moving. With the increased weight of the pulley you're saying it would decrease these? Is that because the extra weight increases the pressure? Or the extra weight slows the piston slightly to correct timing?

The weight is part of it (less so)... what makes the biggest difference is the viscous fluid which helps in the reduction in various orders of vibration experiences by the crank and translated through the engine. Knock sensors 'hear' less of it, so far less false knock. Subaru's preemptive knock strategy (barely discovered and not well understood yet) and feedback knock goes down.

 

From their site:

"Fluidampr is a performance viscous damper. Viscous dampers remove vibration energy from the system by shearing a free rotating inertia ring back and forth through a highly viscous silicone fluid. This converts the vibration energy into heat, which is easily dissipated through the sealed inertia ring housing. A free rotating inertia ring adds an extra advantage of controlling torsional vibration across a broad frequency range and provides the necessary protection as engine modifications are made."

http://www.fluidampr.com/assets/documents/571101B.pdf

http://www.fluidampr.com/what/fluidampr-vs-elastomer-rubber-80/

[GTEASER]

Not sure this is going to work for us 5th Gen LGT (USDM) guys. We have a single accessory belt. IIRC, all other EJ motors have dual accessory belts, thus our problem. Below is a pic of IP&T's LWCP and the Fluidampr you're saying fits our cars.

 

IP&T LWCP for EJ's in 5th Gen.

 

Fluidampr for EJ's.

[Perscitus]

Good catch Joe. Does anyone know the rib count?

That would be an easy way to check.

 

If the rib count on the 5th gen matches with that on one of the Fluidmpr paths, it should fit. If not - yes, I agree it wouldn't fit (as-is).

[GTEASER]

There's a taller, separation rib in the middle for the 2 belts, it won't work.

[Perscitus]

There's a taller, separation rib in the middle for the 2 belts, it won't work.

That's a bummer. I did see the taller separation rib but had hoped the inner channel or ribs one would be wide enough to work with the 5th gen LGT belt.

 

I felt similar when they told me none of their pulleys will fit or can be adopted to fit a 3.0R/3.6R.

 

On the other hand, if the keyway is the same (?), then they could easily modify a batch of their non-5th gen LGT EJ pulleys to work for an EJ.

Would be best if someone sent them a stock or LWCP so they could take any/all measurements.

[ChrisCrash]

The weight is part of it (less so)... what makes the biggest difference is the viscous fluid which helps in the reduction in various orders of vibration experiences by the crank and translated through the engine. Knock sensors 'hear' less of it, so far less false knock. Subaru's preemptive knock strategy (barely discovered and not well understood yet) and feedback knock goes down.

 

From their site:

"Fluidampr is a performance viscous damper. Viscous dampers remove vibration energy from the system by shearing a free rotating inertia ring back and forth through a highly viscous silicone fluid. This converts the vibration energy into heat, which is easily dissipated through the sealed inertia ring housing. A free rotating inertia ring adds an extra advantage of controlling torsional vibration across a broad frequency range and provides the necessary protection as engine modifications are made."

http://www.fluidampr.com/assets/documents/571101B.pdf

http://www.fluidampr.com/what/fluidampr-vs-elastomer-rubber-80/

 

OK that makes a lot of sense, less vibration, smoother pulls, less knock regardless of rpm or speed.

 

I see a lot of benefit in this. If the rib issue GT pointed out can be adapted for our engines I can see myself buying one.

[Perscitus]

Found a good read (BRZ pulley case study)....

but its 30MB worth of PDF so I'll share when home.

 

For now: http://blog.vibratechtvd.com/blog/what-is-a-viscous-damper

 

Vibratech = Fluidmpr

 

Vibratech TVD, located in Springville, New York, is an

ISO 9001:2008 certified developer and manufacturer of torsional vibration dampers for global OEM powertrain divisions in the agriculture, transportation, energy, aviation and defense industries.

 

A viscous style damper carries a portion of its inertia mass in the outer housing with the remaining mass contained in the inner inertia ring. The advantage of the viscous style design is that the outer housing provides heat dissipation that contributes to overall superior damper life.

 

“high power builds benefit extraordinarily well from a Fluidampr performance damper because you’re inducing much greater torsional vibration amplitudes and heat for what the stock tuned elastomer damper is designed for. For this validation test we went the other direction. The car chosen was a 2013 Scion FRS equipped with only a high flow air kit and exhaust, plus a mild tune. Initial peak torque and horsepower measured 141lb-ft and 149rwhp respectively on the Mustang Dynamometer chassis dyno. Torsional vibration control, along with horsepower and torque gains realized with the Fluidampr performance damper found here will only increase as future modifications are made.

 

Through creating greater efficiency, the damper releases more (otherwise lost) torque and horsepower over the stock tuned elastomer damper and a light weight pulley.

 

SFI requirements mandate the damper to be spun at 12,500-13,500 RPM for one hour without failure to meet certification for professional motorsports. The materials and manufacturing process chosen for this Fluidampr application provide nearly four times the requirement for added safety. Furthermore, the steel of a SFI certified Fluidampr housing must meet a minimum 40,000psi yield strength and 60,000psi tensile strength under testing.

 

For torsional vibration measurements, data sets were taken using speed sweeps from 2500rpm – 7500rpm over a time of 30 seconds in order to capture any resonance points in the operating range of the engine. Each speed sweep was conducted twice, back-to-back to verify consistency.

[Perscitus]

I've spoken to my Vibratech/Fluidmpr contacts from last year.

 

Explained the 5th gen LGT EJ issue and raised the need for a 3.0R/3.6R pulley again.

 

Fingers crossed...

[blklgt05]

Subscribed