Hawk HPS vs. Carbotech Bobcats -- My take

[rob]

Hi all,

 

I thought I would share my experience comparing these two pads. For the short attention span types, the summary is, I was never really happy with the Hawk pads and have been extremely happy with the Bobcats (now on two different vehicles).

 

Caveat emptor: This was my experience and I am certain that it differs from others. Take from it what you will, but I am not interested in debating the merits of my opinion vs. others that disagree.

 

About 60k miles ago (2011), I was looking for my first pad change from the original stock pads. HPS seemed to be forum consensus. The rotors were turned and I performed a full system flush to ATE at the same time. I also followed Hawk's bedding process as closely as I could. As time went on, I came the realization that I really wasn't happy with neither the break feel nor performance on the LGT. I didn't think that the pads were completely to blame, but I had my suspicions.

 

Sometime after, I did a brake system upgrade on my '00RS (EJ20G swapped running about 350chp) where I added Ver4 4-pot front calipers, larger H6 rear disks, SS lines, new rotors and Carbotech Bobcat pads. I was and continue to be completely thrilled with both brake feel and performance on the RS. I had lamented the LGT performance in comparison, but figured there was enough differences between the two cars to isolate the pads as the major culprit.

 

Back to the LGT, about 3 years and 40k miles after installing the HPS pads, I attempted to improve the brake feel by changing to Stoptech SS brake lines and again flushing to a new fluid (this time Pentosin Super Dot4). Nothing changed as far as I could tell. At this point I was resigned that I was going to try the Bobcats on the LGT just to be sure.

 

Fast forward 20k more miles and a year and a half, I had suffered a frozen caliper that required an unplanned brake job. This time, I replaced all 4 rotors, reflushed the fluid (again Pentosin) but this time with new Bobcat pads. I am thrilled that the difference is dramatic and much closer to what I have been chasing. The biggest improvement is in initial bite. With the HPS, the result of a quick stab of the break usually resulted in very little stopping action. This was exagerated in cold wet weather. A couple times traveling across the mountains in near freezing temps and severe rain, the lack of cold brake reaction left me extremely unconfortable. This is night and day with the Bobcats. The other thing I noticed is even if ultimate stopping power is the same between the two, it felt like I had to engage the pedal more and wait a tick longer on the Hawks. Again, these characterisitcs are vastly improved with the Carbotechs. The other less important aspect is the dusting. The Bobcats are better in this regard as well. The only complaint I have ever heard about the Bobcats was that they were a bit noisy. This has not been an issue at all for me on either vehicles. I use the rubberized goo, Disc Brake Quiet in between the pads and shims so maybe that is key.

 

If anybody is shopping for new pads, I would recommend giving the Carbotechs a try. Hopefully this info is helpful to someone.

 

-Rob

[Phillip J. Fry]

yes. hawks hps have very poor initial bite. im easy on the brakes and they didnt get warmed up until my 10 miles commute was over.

 

i have NO idea why people recommend them. none at all. the stoptechs gave the initial bite the hps can never give and a high heat tolerance.

[Dispatch20]

On my Stoptech BBK on my old LGT, the HPS were flatout dangerous. The cold, wet bite was really slow. It took seconds to start getting braking force. Stoptechs were much better in that application.

 

On my 3.0R (same brakes as LGT), I use HPS and they work well enough. They definitely bite slower than Stoptechs, but they feel nice and linear. Wet and cold braking hasn't bothered too much, but there is some small delay. Stoptechs feel touchy in comparison when driven back to back. In my opinion, the only plusses of HPS is that I never have to battle squealing brakes, and they aren't dusty. No matter how much I lubed the caliper pads, shims, etc the brake squeal always came back (on 2 different cars) with my Stoptechs pads. I did re-bed the pads fairly often, which seemed to help a little.

 

HPS are good for non-performance daily driving, although i do think they cost too much. In panic braking, both pads will stop you just as fast. Both pads would be awful on the track. I have set of Hawk 5.0 pads waiting to try out next for something (hopefully) a little different.

 

Given the choice between Stoptech and HPS, I still prefer HPS for my casual driving style. I give up performance for less dust and quietness.

 

OP - thanks for the thorough write-up. I hadn't considered the Bobcats, but I will now.

[GTEASER]

I am running Carbotech Bobcats on my FXT and absolutely love them. I have been running either Carbotech XP12 or XP8 on the GT, mostly because I track it once or twice a year and don't put many street miles on it, so I enjoy the extra braking ability on the street, and don't mind a little noise. I actually found the XP12 to be quieter than the XP8 and will go back to those next time around, but they are special order which is why I ended up with XP8's this time around. Had a track day scheduled and waited too long before deciding I needed new pads.

 

I have little to no experience with other brands of performance brake pads, but I have been so incredibly happy with Carbotech products that I will ALWAYS use them.

[Norm Peterson]

i have NO idea why people recommend them. none at all. the stoptechs gave the initial bite the hps can never give and a high heat tolerance.

I think some years ago - I'm talking 10 years ago or so - HPS pads had better initial bite, enough better than OE to be clearly noticeable. They didn't dust much, were gentle on the rotors, and were quiet. So what's not to like? . . . well even the older ones seemed to lose bite after time and miles, and when I tried a set of HPS on the Mustang they weren't the least bit impressive from the get-go.

 

 

I'm looking at these old brake pad threads because her LGT is getting close to needing pads (and most likely rotors) and I'm looking for comments. For her, some dust is OK, much noise at all isn't, so I'm looking no higher up than AX-6 in Carbotech or R6 in G-loc.

 

 

GTEASER - I've used XP8, XP10, and XP12 on the Mustang for track days, and now have one event on a set of G-loc R10 front pads on a 14" big brake kit. Of the three levels, I think the XP10/R10 is going to be the best overall for mixed street/some track driving (I don't mind the dust and occasional noise). XP12's wore the fastest, XP8's cracked the worst, none of them wore the rotors anywhere near as fast as Hawk's HP+ did. 10's and 8's were closer to HPS in this respect.

 

 

Norm