ivonr Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I am hearing that the recipe has changed slightly for Rotella T6 5W-40 and it now has less zinc. Has anyone heard of this? Has anyone done an oil analysis with the new blend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Check Bob is the oil guy forums for a Virgin Oil Analysis. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlton603 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I hope not. I just did my first oil change in my 06 with T6 specifically because I heard it had good zinc content! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondtster Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I have no clue if Rotella specifically is reducing ZDDP but on the whole, I believe diesel oil is following the same trend that auto oil is, due to exhaust aftertreatment that is being installed these days. I personally do not believe that ZDDP is anything more than one solution to a problem,and it is the cheapest solution (that being an EP additive). Engines that most people would perceive as needing ZDDP have been around and running for years without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Since Subaru's don't have flat tappet cams, I wouldn't be worried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirschman Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Since Subaru's don't have flat tappet cams, I wouldn't be worried at all. People like the high zinc for the turbo, not the cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanyb505 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Jeep 4.0 people like zinc for the cam, not the turbo they don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMonaLisa Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Subscribed Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I was going back and forth about whether or not to reply to this again, since it's such a complex subject. Here are a few additional thoughts though. I don't think the reason why rotella does so well in turbo subies is because of the extra ZDDP. I think the main reason rotella does so well is because it has a fairly high HTHS value. Shell does not publish the HTHS number for rotella t6 5w-40, but based off some of the certifications it meets, it is thought to be at least 3.8 mPa•s. So what is HTHS? HTHS is sort of like the film thickness of the oil on moving parts. Lower HTHS is great for fuel economy, but higher HTHS values are better for engine protection. https://commercial.lubrizoladditives360.com/high-temperature-high-shear-viscosity-of-engine-oils/ For comparison sake, here's the HTHS of a few oils. One thing to note is last I knew, the minimum allowable HTHS of an oil was 2.6, mostly seen in 0w-20 oils. Note that 5w-40 and 0w-40 oils will generally have a higher HTHS value than a 5w-30 or 0w-30 oil. Rotella T6 5w-40 – Suspected at least 3.8 mPa•s, because of some of the certiifications it meets. Mobil 1 5w-30 – 3.1 mPa•s. Mobil 1 10w-30 – 3.0 mPa•s. Mobil 1 0w-40 – 3.8 mPa•s. Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 – 3.8 mPa•s. Castrol Edge 5w-30 – At least 3.5 due to ACEA C3 spec Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum 5w-30 – Between 2.9 – 3.5 mPa•s. due to ACEA A5 spec Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 – At least 3.5 mPa•s. due to the ACEA A3 spec Amsoil Signature 5w-30 – 3.1 mPa•s. Amsoil XL and OE 5w-30 – 3.3 mPa•s. Amsoil European car formula 5w-30 – 3.6 mPa•s. Amsoil European car forumula 5w-40 – 3.7 mPa•s. Red Line 5w-30 – 3.7 mPa•s. Red Line 5w-40 – 4.4 mPa•s. Castrol, Pennzoil, Havoline and Valvoline don't publish their HTHS values on their product/technical data sheets, so that's why the list is a bit limited. When I look at the list above, there is probably a difference of at least .8-.9 mPa•s between Mobil 1 5w-30 and Rotella T6 5w-40, so that might help explain why some people don't like Mobil 1 in their turbo subaru's. .8 - .9 might not sound like much, but when you consider the tight range of 2.6 - 4.4 mPa•s mentioned above, it is a pretty big step up in my opinion. High amounts of ZDDP is just one aspect of an oil like Rotella. I was very active on bitog from 2004-2009. During that time, two things were very popular, high molybdenum oils and German Castrol. The funny thing is, German Castrol had 0 ppm of molybdenum in it. So what I'm trying to say is, there are many different ways to formulate a quality oil. If shell reduced the ZDDP, maybe they boosted other additives to make up for that. You can't just focus on one aspect of a motor oil, even something like HTHS like I've talked about here. Couple articles that talk about HTHS and ZDDP. http://www.redlineoil.com/news_article.aspx?id=291 The article below mentions that HTHS is important, but the additive package is very important as well, which is true. But again, there are other additives out there aside from ZDDP which can help reduce wear. http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/d4e8e0b9#/d4e8e0b9/16 part 2 http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/20213322#/20213322/49 http://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classic-and-vintage/articles/flat-tappet-cams-in-classic-cars/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlton603 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Thanks for that post apexi, it is super informative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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