5eat Track Times

[starionesir]

If keeping the stock tmic and upping the boost you have 2 choices. Either bulletproof your stock one. Barmanbean can help you with that or replace it. The stock endtanks are known to come off or start leaking under added boost. As for the EBCS. My tuner prefer's to have them vs the stock unit. Makes tuning easier for him. If you can swing the extra cash I'd put one on and will only make things easier when you do go with the 20g.

[08_GT]

Small update:

 

Got my "bullet proof" tmic kit on, and a grimspeed EBCS, getting a e-tune done with Bren Tuning and cannot wait til it's complete. Very excited, tunes set at 19 psi. On my first revision map, they stil havent responded to my messages, hopefully soon so I can get the tune completed quickly

 

After it's all said and done il let you guys know what's up, and what I end up with. Looking forward to my next track day for sure, will definitely be making up for last time

[Merc6]

Maybe swamped by Black Friday sales. Seems to be the universal situation with tuners on all the forums.

[08_GT]

Yea it's totalbly umderstandle, after purchase it only took them 2 hours to send me the first map. I'm having an issue on logging the 3Rd log they need. The 2k to redline pull in 3Rd gear. My car hits boost cut foursome reason in "manual mode" with my paddle shifters if I attempt a pull and simply cuts off at 3k. Other than that. If I put the car in drive it's drives and pulls perfectly fine. So I'm asking questions on how they would want me to log the 3Rd log

[Rhitter]

What downpipe did you get?

[08_GT]

I have a Invida catless downpipe

[Rhitter]

I think on old ones (not sure if it still happens) the wastegate flapper would make contact with the divorced piece. There are some modifications that involved grinding it down to make sure that doesn't happen. I wonder if in manual mode you are hitting it and in auto mode you aren't.

 

http://www.wesellcarparts.com/store/ProdImages/HS08SW1DPN.jpg

[08_GT]

Hmmmm I don't think that's the issue. I belive it's in the tune. I have the newest version downpipe which I belive is a perfect fit, the lip is very small on mine

 

I get the p0244 code everytime I attempt a pull in 3Rd gear manually. But like I said in drive it's pulls 19 psi hard without hicups

 

Just awaiting on their response at this point. Il keep you guys posted, can't wait to get this tune ironed out, hopefully I have some vids aswell

Edited December 9, 2015 by 08_GT

[08_GT]

More updates:

 

The 2nd revision fixed the cutting issue. Did some more logs and got my revision 3 map. After 2 sets of logs Bren Tuning asked to redo since it looked a little off, reloaded the map and went for it again

 

After that he notified me about the fuel I was using, I've always used chevron 91 (cali), apparently it's not the best you can get ur hands on, he insisted shell v-power being superior

 

And I agree, I told my buddy about the fuel, that minute we went and filled up on it in his evo. Immediately his. Are idled 100Rpms higher and his freaking check engine light came of (test pipe). The car had a cell since day 1 after installing the test pipe, and 2 minutes into driving with shell gas it's cleared

 

So I then attempt to burn the rest of the fuel in my tank to fill with shell to record the logs for them. Long story short after driving for 30 mins I hear an ugly whistling sounds them turns into a kind of grinding sound when attempting to get into boost, my thoughts? Blown turbo.

 

I have good reason it was oil starvation, I was going to pull out the banjo filter this weeknd, but I guess it was to late. Turbo was pushing 19psi and without enough oil it just shot the bearings, definitely didn't blow a seal since there's no smoking,car idles and drives fine, outa boost of course...

 

The plan? As a desperate attempt after getting home I looked for a replacement turbo to get my hands on asap, after 10 mins searching make the purchase on a very low mileage ported and polish vf52.

 

I didn't want to go with a 52 tbh. I wanted to make the jump from the vf40 to a 20g, and simply ride out the vf40, but as things stand I said screw it. I suppose I can push this turbo and maby itl be enough to persuade me against the 20g. At least for a GOOD while.

 

As far as my plans go, continue my e-tune with Bren Tuning and make good power, there totally backed up with their black Friday specials they had going on so that was the reason they took a while to get back to me, but when they did they would revise and send the new map in literaly minutes. Great so far but I have to send them a message hoping they can understand and work with and simply put my tune on hold till I cam get this turbo in and on the car

 

Il keep you guys posted!

Edited December 12, 2015 by 08_GT

[Ezra1234]

I've been following your adventure and it reminds me of my own journey in building my vehicle. I and I'm sure many others can offer you some very valuable advice on the steps your taking to build your daily driver, which brings up and interesting question? I hope you don't live in California? Because if you do and you install the VF52 you will not be able to get through California's CARB/Smog visual tests in the future.

 

The problem with buying any low mileage (after all they are all low mileage VF52's), is that more than likely the the shaft will have more than the tolerable level of play and need rebuilding before long. You can tell the condition by looking at the areas surrounding the turbine blades. If you see any shiny areas? The shaft bearing is worn.You can get the VF40 and VF52 rebuilt for about $400 to $500 at Six Star Speed. They do great work and they even have a ball bearing CHRA available for any of the Subaru OEM Turbos.

 

Do yourself and your family a big favor if your going to change Turbos and buy a new Turbo that has a warranty. One company that comes to mind is Cavalli Turbo. I've been seeing a number of the quicker Legacys around my area that are close to yours in terms of the way they have been built and are using this Turbo as apparently it puts out great power, is super reliable and comes with an 18 month comprehensive warranty. There are probably others that come with warranties, but I can't think of any right now. There stage one Turbo will outflow any Subaru OEM Turbo and you can get by with the stock pistons, rods and crank.

 

Also, it might be time to think about taking your car to a Professional Tuner and getting your car properly tuned. People who are serious about having their motors live get their cars tuned by a hands on professional on a dyno. That way you maximize the cars potential and minimize the pitfalls that are common when you try to do on-line tuneups devoid of a dyno.

 

Since you will be generating more power from all of the add-ons? One other thing that you might consider is to add a much larger transmission cooler, which will allow you to use the stock transmission longer before you have to rebuild it. Adding a shift kit and modified torque converter should be your next upgrade.

[08_GT]

Thanks for the information I appreciate it!

 

Smog did come to mind, but I've passed cars with "mods" before, certain smog shops just aren't through as others lol.

 

My plan was to swap on the vf52 and get this etune done with Bren Tuning. Then I was going to relax and forget about nodding the car for a while, focus on other things.

 

I'm definitely going to be adding a trannycooler without a doubt.

 

Then when I feel like I need to step it up another notch, that's when il go all out with pump, injectors, intake, valve body, (possibly a new stall), more boost and then getting pro tuned at my local shop. Il be getting a nice street tune and a e85 tune.

 

Thats my plan. So definitely a dyno tune will come but not just yet. Thanks for your input and I'm definitely excited for this turbo and see what kinda of gains will come of it

[Ezra1234]

Here is a little reality for you. You can expect, if everything is in good shape with a great tune to be at about 290 whp, 280 ft lbs of torque on pump gas and 16 lbs of boost. With the automatic transmission you have a parasitic power loss of between 20 to 30 whp because it takes more power to drive the auto transmission than it does a stick. These are the numbers I got when I had a very similar setup. By the way, the stock motor when it is new only generates when on the Dyno about 195 whp and 160 ft lbs of torque. Even the vaunted STI in new condition only produces after a fantastic dyno tuneup 315whp and 280 ft.lbs of torque.

 

Oh, and one other thing if you increase the boost beyond 19lbs the VF52 will wear out very, very quickly,as it is only capable of providing 34lbs of air flow.The stage 1 Turbo I indicated that was being used by several of our local Subaru folks pumps out 47 to 48lbs of air, which is a 41% increase over the VF52 and can withstand a maximun 24lbs of boost. This setup on your motor is good for about 360 whp and 330 ft lbs of torque. Good luck!

[08_GT]

Awesome thanks for the info

 

Im planning on getting this e-tune done at 19 psi and don't see my self going pass that for a good while. I want to sit on it and simply enjoy the car and keep as many stock parts as possible. It's a daily so I'm not planning on going nuts just yet. I might not even go any further if I decide I want to build another sc300

 

Realistically if I see a high 12 il be content, that's the goal for now on pump. Well see how it goes!

 

Il keep you guys updated. Overt Saturday and Sunday il be ripping out the stock turbo and Monday it arrives.

 

 

I'm considering a Perrin inlet and intake system. Would you agree with "bang for your buck" on this one? or would you invest elsewhere. What kinda of gains would you even see from both?

Edited December 16, 2015 by 08_GT

[Ezra1234]

You can waste your money and get a cold air intake, but you won't get any more horsepower with the mods you are currently doing to your engine. The best move you can make is to get a K&N replacement filter for your stock Legacy airbox. The stock air box with the K&N filter is good up to about 360 whp. After that consider a KES intake system (which is what most of the really high horsepower engine builders use) and going to a 4bar boost controller. Hope this helps?

[08_GT]

Great thanks for the info, I do like the stock intake system and have read of its suffiecentness (if that's even a word lol)

 

I currently just have a Perrin drop In filter, and also have a grimspeed 3 port ebsc. I will be doing a complete fluid flush and adding a trannycooler.

 

I don't see myself putting anymore "performance" parts as I think I have enough to work with, I was thinking about doing suspension and the break system.

 

I'm not picky when it comes to suspension. On this car I don't plan on riding on coils (slammed cars are just not practical for a daily), I was thinking about the ties h tech spring. Nothing crazy just a mild drop for a great cost, breaks is were I'm tied up on. Do I want brembos? Yes and no.

 

They obviously don't come cheap, and with a good pair of rotors and pads il be in over 1K$+. But I have been reading that the stock lgt calipers are decent enough?. I might just do some decent rotors and pads and avoid calipers for now since il have to be forced to purchase new wheels to fit the dam brembos.

 

Although new wheels wouldn't be a bad idea, I'm dying for some decent offset to compliment the car. New tires are definitely needed

 

So my options for now are breaks or wheels/tires. Well see how taxes look like I might be able to do both. But do I really want brembos is what's bugging me.

Edited December 18, 2015 by 08_GT

[Ezra1234]

Boy, your a glutton for punishment aren't you? Forget the Brembos, they are really great brake systems. But for where your at and since your car is a daily driver. Spend your money wisely.

 

Start with a set of sway bars and if you can afford it some end links for both the front and rear. Then replace every lousy bushing with poly prophelene units. This will make the car almost handle as well as a BMW. Yeah, the stock discs are junk and warp at the first hard braking situation. When you have the money? Buy yourself some slotted EBC rotors and middle grade pads from Hawk, or EBC. When you make these changes you will be shocked at how well your car handles. Buy the way, you can find these items sold used if you look around. The only items you don't want to buy used are the brake rotors and of course pads.

[08_GT]

Lol thanks again, not to worry this car is simply a daily and something to play with. I'm ok with how the car drives as is, I'm used to 90s Toyota, lexus, Nissan and loved it.

 

Brembos were just a though, but Dam they look so sexy and the added stopping power would be nice. I though about it, I'm going the slotted rotors and a good set of pads route. Sway bars I'm considering but looks promising. Adding a set of diff bushing inserts. As far as replacing every bushing I don't know If I Wana spend the time to do so.

 

Looking at some wheels aswell. Trying to stay on the light side, and oem. Some sti stockers would be nice.

 

Once that's done I don't see myself "modding" the car any further. Other than a grill

 

Thanks again for the input

[08_GT]

Well the vf52 is in. Me and my buddy were so Dam determined we did it in the rain, and in the darkness. it was cold as shit and wet aswell lol. We freaking did it though. It was definitely a pain, was very through and put in new up pipe and downpipe gaskets, I could not for the love of my life find the second banjo bolt filter.

 

The first one I got out was right under where the intake knelt meets the actual turbo, straight forward and filter was definitely gunky. The second place I checked was underneath the intake hose connecting to the intake box, that banjo had no filter In it

 

Lining up the up pipe, drain and inlet was a pain. Easiest way was attaching the inlet and tightening it down, then getting the drain to line up and simply dropping it in, you definitely need a set of small hands, mines didn't fit.

 

After all that we tightened everything up. And did a oil change. I did prime the turbo, didn't take much oil to fill it. New oem oil filter and a crush washer. Dropped in some rotella t6 and we were ready. Removed the fuel pump fuse and cranked it in small amounts about 3 times to build pressure. Then slapped the fuse back In and we were in business.

 

The obviously smoking from all the pb blaster and coolant. After that we bleed.the cooling system, closed it up and went around the block to make.sure it's all I'm good.health. Didn't build.more than 6 psi since.it's not.tuned atm, but drove.great.

 

First thing tomorrow is top off the oil and double check everything, then installing the turbo blanket and heatsheild.back on. Loading the new vf52 map and logging it, can't wait for this etune from bren tuning your complete!!

 

 

 

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s404/golden95sc/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0204.jpg

 

 

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s404/golden95sc/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0205.jpg

 

 

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s404/golden95sc/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0206.jpg

Edited December 20, 2015 by 08_GT

[08_GT]

More updates: drove the car to do some errands. Haven't built more than 6 psi driving since I have to upload the new map and start logging. Cars drives great and everything seems good, topped of the oil to full and I still want to drain my cooling system and give e it a refill.

 

Super busy today. Did a evo9 turbo swap on my buddies evo 8, same story started at 5pm in darkness and didn't stop til we finished, we're planning on pairing up the cars when my tune is complete for fun

 

Plans are just finishing up this etune with the new vf turbo, adding a tranny cooler, flushing the tranny and diff fluids

[08_GT]

More updates :

 

Finished up the etune with Bren Tuning, car is now making safe power at 19 psi on the vf52. Definite power increase and a smooth powerband.

 

I asked if we could tune it up to 20 psi and make it just a little more aggressive. Trying to push it just a tad bit. Never the less Bren Tuning had done a excellent job. I was stressing it at first since the car was down, but they had excellent service and revised 3 maps in the same day in a matter of 3 hours.

 

I'm planning on picking up some rota torque for cheap over the weeknd. There a bit beat up and will need some refinishing, so thatl be my next little project

 

Tranny cooler is coming. Just going to figure out what the best way to go about it.

 

Overall car puls great. Only a mater of time before hit the track and see some numbers

 

 

Some more edits:

 

Bren Tuning denied my request for 20psi and alittle more aggrieve tune. I'm happy with the current setup, but the limiting factor is the fuel, since 91 Is all I can get my hands on

Edited December 25, 2015 by 08_GT

[08_GT]

Some questions:

 

Il be searching info on these, but I'd like to see some input from you guys. Im going to try to "maximize" the vf52. Ultimate goal if possible for this is a high 11 on e85 and valve body. Not happening right now, just planning out my build. The obvious fuel pump and injectors will be had.

 

.will any HP be made from a intake system? I understand the stock system is sufficient. But Realistically speaking can I get some more power out of 1? Say 5+ whp?

 

I'm looking into the grimspeed intake, very well designed and looks great, if this will net some more power then it's definitely on my list

 

.does a inlet provide power?

 

.have you guys heard of the grimspeed plenum intake manifold spacers? Keeps temps lower. Thus increasing power? Even more beneficial on e85?

 

.input on TGV deletes?

 

.header and up pipe combo? Some people swear by equal length headers, but is there some serious gains from switchg Over? Or is the stock header/catless up pipe combo sufficient?

 

.lightweight crank Pulley? On other cars there frowned upon, what about subaru? Any "real" gains?

 

Basically when it comes down to it, geting a pro tune on 91 and e85 and calling the build done.

Edited December 25, 2015 by 08_GT

[Ezra1234]

Well, it appears that you have some very large goals ahead of you? I applaud your goals. But in order to run high 11's even with E85, you will need to do much more with your engine and suspension than your current plans outline!

 

But lets address the add-ons you are considering one at a time. First, with E85 it is highly recommended that you have have the car dyno tuned as you will have to change the injectors to 1000cc preferably a top feed conversion as they are much easier to tune than side feed injectors for a variety of reasons. Secondly, you will need to install a Walbro 450LPH fuel pump and when you do this you also have to remove the funcky recirculator that is a part of the stock fuel system. When you install the fuel pump you must connect (wire) it to a direct power source and you will have to add a fuel regulator adjusted for 40lbs of flow or more. To make this change you are probably going to spend for new items about$1200 to $1300 not counting the Dyno tune.

 

If you absolutely plan on changing the airbox, save yourself time, money and effort and purchase the KES 80mm cold air system. Thats what we run on big power Subarus. Its only something like $215. You can also get the Perrin intake which will smooth out the flow of air from the Turbo to the connection of the air filter. I believe the Perrin unit is about $200 to $250. You may eke out a couple of horsepower from this change with your current set up. But this setup will allow you to add much larger Turbos without having to worry about air intake restrictions.

 

Adding the quicker shift valve body will speed up shifts but if your going to drag race this vehicle then get a torque converter upgrade with a 3000rpm stall speed. This will be good for about a second quicker in the quarter mile.

Your looking at between $350 shiftkit to $700 for the torque converter.

 

TGV deletes are an absolute necessity if your really planning on serious power . However, you will have to give up your cruise control if you go the delete route. If your pulling and modifying the deletes you might as well install the thicker 8 or 9mm thick gaskets as well. They help keep the heat of the engine away from the fuel mixture, which is a good thing! The cost for delete modification is about $250 and the gaskets about $80.

 

There is no comparison between a catless uppipe and equal length headers and the stock equivalent. Why? Because there are no restrictions in the up pipe and the equal length headers (which are also tuned). However, by adding an up pipe and a crossover pipe and matching the exhaust inlet to the exhaust ports will be close to the new up pipe, equal header combination. The up pipe and equal length headers will give you some additional top end power that your won't get using a modified stock exhaust system. The cost for an up pipe-equal length tuned system will be around $800 to $900. The modified stock system with an up-pipe and crossover will be about $400 to $500, not counting the port matching.

 

You can get an ATI or Fluidamp units and be done with it. I prefer the ATI units as they are easy to rebuild and do a much better job of managing the harmonic crank distortion than the lightweight units. In otherwords, technically your engine will last longer with a quality dampener. Be ready to spend $350 for the ATI and more for the Fluidamp.

 

By the way, I have many of the items mentioned above, but I just haven't taken the time to list them for sale yet. Since we are always trying new components on our engines. The ones that we remove are barely used. I hope the above helps your decision making as you move through this process? Happy New Year.

[08_GT]

Awsome info thanks!

 

Everything you said is spot on, my cars not exactly a track car just a daily with a bit of a kick. Love track days with the buddies. Car fells decent as is, the vf52 is a nice upgrade over the 46.

 

Most parts will be had second hand so I save some cash, and make the build more tangible. I'm looking more into the torque converter, stock for me is about 2600-2700. Slowly starts climbing. Weird how on ots stage 2 I could get it up to a solid 3k?

 

11s would be a he'll of a accomplishment, on a daily driver 5eat lol, hell I'd be happy with mid 12s on e85 which I see very doable even on a 5eat, but il definitely see what I can make of this little car.

 

Edit:did some thinking and talked to a few buddies, decided not to go down the e85 route just yet. When and if it becomes as readily available as normal pump gas then il make the jump, I can live without it.

 

So now the plan is TGV deletes, a perrin or avo tmic and figuring out what I need to do with the fuel

 

Goal is to hit the 300whp mark (or close) on the vf52, without the need of a valve body, (il grab the valve body when I go e85). This should at least net me low 13s high 12s which is exactly what I was aiming for the meantime.

 

So as far as fuel goes, will the stock injectors suffice just enough? Or will injectors allow me to "maximize" the vf52. I'm seeing that people recomend a fuel pump for sure

Edited December 28, 2015 by 08_GT

[Ezra1234]

The stock injectors will work for your current setup. If you add E85 at some point you will need to go to 1000cc injectors. The torque converter will help your launch off the line starts, so that a good move!

 

What you are doing is setting your car up to Drag Race, not Road Race! The 5eat and especially the modified torque converter does not lend itself to road racing. You can put three large trans coolers on the vehicle and still boil the trans fluid if you do more than a lap on a road course. Plus, the torque converter wants to launch every time you drop the revs under the stall speed, which in essence on a road course is most corners. Hope this helps?

[08_GT]

Definitely not looking to road race the legacy, it's just a daily with occasional track days, again thanks for the info.

 

Looks like I got my mind set then for now. As far as TGVs go, composite over aluminum? Il be doing them for sure with the 8mm gasket. But people were saying something about Fitment issues due to its size? Is this true?

 

Also I had a moderate 20psi In mind for my set up with the new tmic and deletes, could I technically do 22 psi or is that kinda pushing it to far? I'm not looking to over stress the turbo since I know 24 would be max, but I'm trying to get the most of it since I don't plan on working performance for a good while. I Wana be sure I make use of my "potential" . il be having Bren Tuning do my Re-tune.

 

And I guess the fuel pump is a must with what im looking to do? Or will the stock work just fine?

 

As far as the stall goes, il look into, it would definitely be nice having a 3500-4000 stall. But the install is something I really don't want to do, and I'm not sure how they tranny would like it

 

I also came across this:

 

So lemme get this straight. With stock fueling, with a VF52, the limiting factor would be my pump?

 

And if I upgrade the pump, the limited actor becomes the injectors?

 

And if I upgrade the injectors, the limiting factor becomes the turbo?

 

Does the same hold true with the BNR16G? Or should I be looking at a BNR18G?

 

Do you think it's possible to hit that 290-300whp mark with the stock fueling on a 5eat?

Edited December 29, 2015 by 08_GT