False Knocks? Logs inside

[Guest]

I keep seeing random fine and feedback knocks, with weird AF correction readings occasionally ( at least what i have been reading about these monitors and their 'ranges' )

 

Can someone take a look and let me know if this is acceptable or if i have a vac leak somewhere or possible other problems?

 

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3JV7AVc08XTfjZJRmhrdDFJaUVpQkVqcDF4cW85c1NRaDhfOEFyaHZTY1Zqa2t6dUMwbnM&usp=sharing

 

Log #1 light driving out of work parking lot to freeway onramp

Log #2 Getting on the freeway, half throttle pull, cruised the rest of the way

Log #3 random highway log

Log #4 A quick pull to 60mph - You can really see the AF correction i was talking about here.

 

 

Car has:

Invidia UP

eBay Down

Perrin Inlet

Cobb Intake

Cobb v3 on OTS Stage 2 + SF 93 tune

[serx7]

the FLKC isn't random, one correction was consistently being applied in the ~0.8-1.1 g/rev load and ~1700-1800 rpm range. datalog4 shows that the FLKC correction in that same range has increased from -1.05 (prior logs) to -2.8, and also shows another -2.8 correction in the ~1.05 g/rev and 2200-2600 rpm range. throttle is light and you're not in boost, but i would prefer to see clear logs in this regard.

 

while sitting at idle, use the AP3's live display to see what AF Learning #1A, B, C, D are. if those values are substantially further away than approx +/- 5% or so, you may be looking at a leak.

[Guest]

I'll check after work and post results. Thanks for the tip!

 

I went down to the 91 STG2 + SF tune after seeing some knock, i seem to get more FLKC on 91 tune. ( i'm running 93 fuel )

 

By clear logs, what would you like to see, less cruise time?

 

I did just add HID's for high/low/fogs, and had the ballasts floating around the bay, i just secured them today, so maybe that was part of it.

[serx7]

I wouldn't expect more knock on the Stg2/91 oct OTS. I don't have the SF-related maps to compare, but b/n the base Stg2/93 oct and Stg2/91 oct OTS maps, base and dynamic advance ignition timing is identical below 1.70 g/rev load and 2800 rpm. Your logged FLKC is occuring at lower loads and lower RPM, so I don't think there's a tune difference in play.

 

Since the knock is occuring in lower load/lower RPM/non-boost conditions, IMO it would be safe to reset the ECU after having secured the HID ballasts. Resetting the ECU will clear the FLKC table, so you can start monitoring from a clean start. If you don't do this, it could be a while before the ECU decays the current FLKC values.

 

Also, when logging, add Knock Sum to the parameter list. If you see FLKC w/o an increment in Knock Sum, the FLKC is the result of a previously-learned knock event. If you do see FLKC with a Knock Sum increment, then you'd know that that particular event was the one that caused the FLKC to be triggered.

 

As for 'clean logs', i mean -no- FLKC under any operating conditions, with perhaps very occasional, unrepeatable FBKC.

 

If you still see knock occuring in the previously discussed load/rpm ranges, one thing you could try is an ECU reset followed immediately by reducing timing globally by 2-3 degrees via the AP3 (it's an Adjustment under the Tune section on the AP3), then see if the FLKC goes away and remains away. If the FLKC goes away it's possible the OTS map is running a bit more timing than your car likes in the problematic load/rpm range. If the FLKC doesn't go away with the globally-reduced timing, there might be an external source (rattle, etc).

[Guest]

I had Knock Sum on today on my way home, it got up to 3, which seems significantly less than before i secured the ballasts. This number used to get up high teens on my drive to work.

 

I've got some other things to possibly secure, such as my hood prop ( the clip broke, not sure if that's rattling around )

 

What you've said about the 91 vs 93 makes sense, ill switch that back, runs fine under boost and higher rpm's. This knock stuff hasn't affected my driving at all, i just happened to notice it pop up.

 

Here are the AF learning abcd at idle

 

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/29/b49b821ddbb40dcd9e94f9c3d7c618b8.jpg

 

Sent from my XT1093 using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Alright, So i finished securing the ballasts, and a few tid bits that could have made some noise.. It seems much better. I didn't see any FLKC after i reset the ECU.

 

#9 was right after i reset ecu, drove to my buddy's a mile away.

#11 has some WOT in there.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3JV7AVc08XTfkF2enV3cHNXMzhuaTZsTHNENkplay1Ld3phREhPa1RtOFVaZlYwSmZpMmc

 

I wouldn't expect more knock on the Stg2/91 oct OTS. I don't have the SF-related maps to compare, but b/n the base Stg2/93 oct and Stg2/91 oct OTS maps, base and dynamic advance ignition timing is identical below 1.70 g/rev load and 2800 rpm. Your logged FLKC is occuring at lower loads and lower RPM, so I don't think there's a tune difference in play.

 

Since the knock is occuring in lower load/lower RPM/non-boost conditions, IMO it would be safe to reset the ECU after having secured the HID ballasts. Resetting the ECU will clear the FLKC table, so you can start monitoring from a clean start. If you don't do this, it could be a while before the ECU decays the current FLKC values.

 

Also, when logging, add Knock Sum to the parameter list. If you see FLKC w/o an increment in Knock Sum, the FLKC is the result of a previously-learned knock event. If you do see FLKC with a Knock Sum increment, then you'd know that that particular event was the one that caused the FLKC to be triggered.

 

As for 'clean logs', i mean -no- FLKC under any operating conditions, with perhaps very occasional, unrepeatable FBKC.

 

If you still see knock occuring in the previously discussed load/rpm ranges, one thing you could try is an ECU reset followed immediately by reducing timing globally by 2-3 degrees via the AP3 (it's an Adjustment under the Tune section on the AP3), then see if the FLKC goes away and remains away. If the FLKC goes away it's possible the OTS map is running a bit more timing than your car likes in the problematic load/rpm range. If the FLKC doesn't go away with the globally-reduced timing, there might be an external source (rattle, etc).

[serx7]

Yeah looks pretty good. There's FBKC in 2 places in datalog11, one hit at 2.66 g/rev load and 3369 shortly after you rolled onto the throttle, and one hit at 0.9 g/rev load and 1852 rpm (where you previously had FLKC being applied).

 

Keep an eye on things to see how it goes going forward. It might be a little while before your fuel trims dial themselves in, so the picture might change as/after they settle in.

[Guest]

I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the help, it's much happier now.

 

I'll reply with an update down the road.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Yeah looks pretty good. There's FBKC in 2 places in datalog11, one hit at 2.66 g/rev load and 3369 shortly after you rolled onto the throttle, and one hit at 0.9 g/rev load and 1852 rpm (where you previously had FLKC being applied).

 

Keep an eye on things to see how it goes going forward. It might be a little while before your fuel trims dial themselves in, so the picture might change as/after they settle in.

 

I checked the AF Learn A today (6%) the rest were pretty low.

[serx7]

The higher trims can take a while to settle, depending on your driving style/conditions. My daily commute involves 4-5 mi country road @ 45-50 mph and 10-12 mi interstate hwy @ 70-80 mph one way (identical commute home), and the cruise and light accel trims (B and C in my tune, esp C) can take over a week to fully settle. The A trim usually settles within a few minutes once the motor's up to operating temp.

[Guest]

The higher trims can take a while to settle, depending on your driving style/conditions. My daily commute involves 4-5 mi country road @ 45-50 mph and 10-12 mi interstate hwy @ 70-80 mph one way (identical commute home), and the cruise and light accel trims (B and C in my tune, esp C) can take over a week to fully settle. The A trim usually settles within a few minutes once the motor's up to operating temp.

 

 

Yeah, I've got about the same daily commute. So far so good, ill check out what my learn's are when i get out of work today, just put a full tank through it.

[Guest]

I think i figured out where most of the feedback comes from. When i'm in a gear getting low in RPM's, lets say 3rd gear, near 1000 rpm high load i assume, probably not the correct gear no, but i saw this is where i get some feedback. I occasionally notice fine on some drives, no more than 1.40. I label in the datalog10 where i was in second gear at a low speed.

 

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3JV7AVc08XTfk5rZC1ubW5xWm5QLWZITkdNdlhLRnVoLTFhWEc1ZjhTY1Noa1lIeTZ6T2c&usp=sharing

[serx7]

Some of the knock in your recent datalogs are not at high load, they occur while the motor's still seeing vacuum under part throttle:

 

datalog9:

2600 rpm, boost -6.35, load 0.74 (appear to be rolling up to 40-50% throttle)

1692 rpm, boost -5.35, load 0.74 (appear to be rolling off throttle from 14%)

 

datalog10:

1291 rpm, boost -1.53, load 1.08 (appear to be rolling up to 18% throttle)

 

What I don't like is seen in datalog9 at 2518 rpm, 38.8% throttle, 2.12 load. You get a 1st hit of hit of FBKC -2 deg and immediately see another hit to -4 deg at 2558 rpm, same 38.8% throttle, 2.24 load. You appear to have rolled onto the throttle about 2 seconds prior to the initial FBKC and were at 38.8% throttle about 1+ sec before the FBKC.

 

I presume your AFR is coming from the stock O2 sensor, but maybe it's a little lean as you get back on the pedal. I looked at some of my part throttle roll-on/shifting datalogs and under similar conditions, my AFR (also coming from stock O2 sensor) is never above ~11.8 (usually closer to the pegged 11.14 value) as my throttle position swings past 20% on the way up to 40-50%.

[serx7]

I just realized your AF Learning 1 values are quite negative in the datalogs where the FBKC is occuring. -11.75 for the FBKC at higher load, and -12.5 for the FBKC at lighter loads.

 

What are your AF Learning 1A, B, C, D now? Values like that would seem to indicate something's up (leak, probably?)

[Guest]

serx7, i added a couple more logs from days prior in the same link. I'll go check my ABCD shortly and get back to you.

 

edit:

actually disregard those, they don't have any knock fine or feedback

[Guest]

These aren't looking good..

 

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/17/268f2e9126b6ddf616b9c15ae1bb9a06.jpg

 

Sent from my XT1093 using Tapatalk

[serx7]

Those 2 earlier logs also show AF Learning 1 that's not quite as negative as what's seen in your most recent logs. If the knock is fueling related, you might be at the borderline w/ the current fuel trims. I am not a tuner though...

[Guest]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3JV7AVc08XTfnpkWnYzek5xeGI1M2M0SGM4MkJDV0syZkN4TjlqQ0FBaVRnWkpTd25jRkE

 

Merp, i'm stumped, seemly gets worse?