jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have a 1996 Lagacy 2.0l that is having overheating problems. So, first the history: About a year ago I was driving back from the beach and the car began to overheat. I pulled over and discovered that the radiator was cracked. My dad came down and replace the radiator with a new one. After I got it back it seemed fine but after a few days of driving it began to over heat. We bled the system really well. A few days later it overheated again. I couldn't find any leak until I looked carefully at the water pump. I thought it was leaking so I replaced it. The car continued to over heat. Next I replaced the thermostat, twice. The car continued to overheat. I also replaced the radiator cap 3 times. Still overheated. I noticed that the overflow tank would fill up to the top when the car got hot and it didn't seem to suck back into the radiator the way it's supposed to. Someone suggested that it might be a blown head gasket so I did a radiator gas test which was negative (two different people did that test 3 different times). Next, I checked the compression - equal across all cylinders and no sign of leaking pressure across cylinders. I checked for bubbles in the radiator - nothing. I looked for water in the oil and oil in the water - nothing. I put 18lbs of vacuum in the radiator and left it for a few hours - no loss of vacuum. So, I'm at a loss to explain the problem. It constantly repeats the same pattern - fill it full of water and bleed it carefully, the car is fine for a few days then it overheats. When I check the overflow after driving, it's full to the top, even though it started down at the max line. I'm about to replace the head gaskets because that's about the only thing I haven't tried, but I'm not convinced that's the problem. I thought I'd asked here before I spend the weekend tearing apart the motor. Could it be the head gaskets even with equal compression and no combustion gas in the radiator? Can you think of anything I've missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 An update to my post . . . I just did a leak-down test and the results are normal. So, unless I have a blown head gasket with no other symptoms except overheating, I don't know what's causing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 there is a ton of info already posted on this subject. due to no bubbles, or ''gunk'' in the over flow botttle, it may not be headgaskets. besides, i do not think the ej20 tends to blow them like the ej25. not impossible to blow a HG on the ej20, but not common, and certainly not the first thing to suspect. search for ''how to fill and burp your cooling system'' posted by me. it has several post combined with a lot of info. one question, is the t-stat now installed a suabru unit? (if you did not buy it from a dealer it is not .) it must be a suabru t-stat. read the posts and get back. my guess is first a leak , then incorrect filling burping, then wrong t-stat, in that order. leaving you with a mystery. the problem kept changing as you tried different solutions. however, if the overflow bottle does not ''suck'' back into the rad when the engine cools, you have a leak. maybe in the hose that goes to the bottle, or maybe just somewhere else in the system, heater hose, bypass hose, throttle body hoses? make sure the hose to the over flow is not bottomed out in the bottle and / or plugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjkroll Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 ^^^ What johnegg said. Read it, twice. Should solve your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Okay, first thanks for your help. I have read dozens of threads on this topic and usually people recommend doing a compression test or a leak-down test. Some say those tests are not definitive. Others say look for gunk in the overflow. Some say that's not definitive either. Still others say check the coolant for hydrocarbons. I've done all those things and none indicate a hg leak. In fact, the ONLY thing that indicates a hg leak is that after 4 or 5 days of driving so much coolant is forced out of the overflow bottle that the car starts to overheat. So, that leaves me with a leak in the system somewhere. If it were a bad thermostat I would not expect the temp to stay normal as long as I keep coolant in the car. I'd expect it to overheat every time I ran it whether it was full of coolant or not. I've searched for a leak, including in the overflow hose, and I can't find one. In fact, as I said in my first post, I applied vacuum to the radiator and it remained steady for more than an hour. If there was a leak I should see a drop in vacuum. Also, I've bled and burped the system many times using various recommend procedures. Again, if there was air in the system I'd expect the car to overheat every time I drove it, not 4 or 5 days later after coolant was forced out of the overflow, or for the temp gauge to read hot sometimes and cold others.The problem remains the same no matter what I try: I fill the system, bleed it, after 4 or 5 days of driving it starts to overheat and the coolant level is way down. The coolant level in the overflow bottle is near the top. I know that the 2.0l motor does not have the same problems with the head gasket that the 2.5l does, but any motor can blow a hg if it overheats severely as this one did shortly before the problem began. I guess the next thing I will try is taking the thermostat out all together and see if that makes a difference. Has anyone out there had no symptoms of a hg leak OTHER than over flowing the overflow bottle and subsequent overheating, which was finally fixed by replacing the head gaskets? Again, thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The coolant level in the overflow bottle is near the top.. this means that the cooling system is not sucking the over flow back into the system. there must be a leak. have you let the engine idle in the drive way, after your drive home, over a piece of clean cardboard? in theory, it is possible that this leak is at the head gasket. but i have never heard of that causing this problem. on a side note, as much as i write about the proper filling anf burping of the system, these system are designed to be self burping. what ever air is in the system is forced to the top, and when the pressure hits a certain level, it is forced out into the over flow. as the system cools, it sucks the coolant back into the system, assuming there is coolant in the overflow bottle. this is by design. the system will not do this when there an ''air lock'' that the water pump cannot circulate. this is usually the same situation that occurs during a bad head gasket over heating. so much coolant is gone what is left will not flow to the top. but even then the overflow should be sucked back in. how about adding some coolant leak ''detector / indicator '' to the system. and then using a black light to find the leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 An update: I checked the thermostat and it was installed correctly. I bought another OME thermo from the dealer just in case, but I doubt that's the problem. The mechanic at the dealer suggested that I try the hydrocarbon test again. He thinks it's the hg and that when I did the test before I didn't let the motor get hot enough or run it hard enough. If it's a minor leak it won't show at idle. This makes sense to me so, I'm putting the car back together and trying the test again. Over the past 40 odd years of being a shade tree mechanic this is the first time I've been so stumped by what appears to be a simple overheating problem. I've solved mechanical problems on everything from semi's to ships at sea and I've never gotten to the place where I simply scratch my head and say, "well, I just can't figure it out!" And if I HAVE TO REBUILD THE ENTIRE FREAKING CAR, I'm gonna figure this out! One time I rebuilt a gm v6 in my garage. I bought a cam from CompCams and installed it along with a bunch of other new parts. When I started the motor it ran like crap and when I did a compression test one bank of cylinders had low compression. I suspected the cam immediately but CompCam told me that was impossible. I rebuilt that motor TWICE more before I finally put the original cam in and tested it. Sure enough the cam was the problem. CompCam had ground the new cam using two miss-matched templates - something that had never happened before according to them. If I could figure that this should be a breeze. I'll let you know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Cooling fans working? My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Cooling fans working? Gee wiz, do the fans need to work I thought they were just for show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You didn't mention it in your 1st post, that's why I asked. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 You didn't mention it in your 1st post, that's why I asked. I know, I was being a bit of an ass. Sorry. JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimmyjimjim Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Well, it turns out that it IS the head gaskets. The fluid I was using to test for hydrocarbons in the radiator was old apparently. They probably had it sitting on the shelf for years before I bought it. So, when I ran the test the fluid didn't change color. I was watching a youtube vid when the guy says, off handedly, that the fluid has a 2 year shelf life. So, on a hunch I bought a new bottle from a different shop and sure enough the blue liquid turned yellow. So, now the tear down begins. Does anyone know if I can get the passenger side head off without pulling the motor? Thanks for your help, JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes, you'll need to disconnect the engine mounts and shift the motor over to get it off. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3v_v3ng3 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Cooling fans working? This is what happened on mine. Well the lo fan was always on and when its time for the hi to kick in, it didnt work so had to rebuild the engine. did the headgasket before ebay mls ones So i went overboard and used sti hg and wrx all aluminum radiator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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