serkan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is my 2005 legacy gt 5eat supposed to crank (try to start) in any gear (D, 1,2,3) ? My car have starting and stalling problem at idle. While I was trying stuff, i figured that If I put the shifter in "D" and try to start it will crank and feed fuel but of course won't start. (Doesn't matter if I press the brake pedal or not) My impreza don't do this. I am thinking my problems about stalling might have something to do with ignition switch or smtg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF_3C2 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Vacuum leak is the biggest cause. I have a feeling there is an ignition safety switch built in to keep you from starting while in gear. Pull your TMIC, find the blue "T" fitting with three vacuum lines on it and make sure all the hoses are snug. Many possibilities after that, but that should be your first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too sigmafour Posted January 23, 2015 I Donated Too Share Posted January 23, 2015 ^^^^ correct. Car would NOT turn over and feed fuel while in gear because if it fires or not the engine would be rotating and would potentially drive the car if it was in any gear, doesn't matter if rotation is from starter or combustion, rotation and gear makes car move! The car should not attempt to start at all unless in N or Park. Feeding fuel without spark would also be a silly thing for a car to try and do... that's called flooding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serkan Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Thats what i thought but what is failing to make the car think it can start in gear. Tcu, ignition switch ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too sigmafour Posted January 23, 2015 I Donated Too Share Posted January 23, 2015 Errr... Double negative maybe? The car shouldn't think for itself either, that was Kitt and he wasn't a Subaru. Car cannot start in gear for safety... If you can crank the car 'in gear' then you have a bad neutral safety switch in the transmission. I would search for the vacation pictures and check the switch with a meter. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/wants-see-my-vacation-pixi-6216.html?t=6216 As for it being responsible for stalling. I doubt it. It's most likely a vacuum leak and that was already pointed out by AF_3C2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF_3C2 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Are you not cranking over while in N or P? If that is the issue, then there is something wrong with your safety switch- or some other problem (maybe crank position sensor?) but the ECU should be setting off a check engine light for something not allowing you to crank the motor- unless battery is dead. The stalling issue is 90% of the time a vacuum leak, and majority of those comes from the blue T under the TMIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serkan Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 It turns over in every shifter position. P R N D 1 2 3 No check engine light. I checked it with code reader and learning view both didn't show any stored or memorized codes. Not a dead battery either. I already made a thread about my problem if you guys are interested or have time to read it. It might help. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/stalling-cuts-around-3500-rpm-236142.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serkan Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I am sure it is not a vacuum leak causing the stall or no start. Sometimes it fires up normally at first try. Idles normal without any signs of hesitation or shaking. Than suddenly stalls. Doesn't even bog before it stalls. Sometimes stalls after 5 mins, sometimes 1 min, or 20 secs. One time it idled for almost 10 mins and stalled. It is definitely not a vacuum leak. It's either ignition is being stopped or fuel injection is cut (at the injectors). And Ecu is doing it for an unknown reason. I think cranking in any gear has something to do with it since it is a part of ignition system. Edit: Also when the key is ON position, "AWD" "CEL" "Battery" "Sport" lights stays on (goes away if car starts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF_3C2 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If your ECU is doing it as you suspect, it would have a good reason to do so and throw a code. Weird that your engine turns over when in any gear- I would do as sigamafour suggests and research your safety switch. Might be shorting out something causing the cut offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serkan Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 My 07 service manual lists two P0851 codes, one for MTs and one for ATs. They are essentially the same. They indicate that there's a ground, or a malfunction in the relevant switch circuit to the ECM. In the AT, normally, when the gear shift lever and the Inhibitor Switch are in P or N, the Switch connects the starter relay to the starter solenoid. (See attached diag.) When the ignition switch is turned to Start, 12V is passed through the relay and through the Inhibitor Switch to the starter solenoid. When the gear shift lever and Inhibitor Switch are in any other position, pin C31 should be "high"; in other words, there should be no continuity from C31 to ground. The ECM compares the voltage at C31 with signals coming from the TCM corresponding to which gear it is actually in, and if it finds that C31 is Low while the transmission is in anything other than P or N, it triggers the DTC. (As with the NSS, the purpose is to prevent the starter from running when the transmission is in any gear other than P or N.) The cause of the DTC might be a problem in the wiring between the ECM and the Inhibitor Switch, or in the Inhibitor Switch, that is keeping pin C31 low, even when the transmission is not in P or N. (It could be just a misadjustment of the Inhibitor Switch or it's connecting cable, that is allowing the switch to maintain the N connection when the lever is in R or D. But this will require some direct measurements to confirm and correct.)Found this searching. Might be helpful when I work on it tomorrow. I don't have a CEL but worth checking. Edit: Pin number may not be the same but general idea is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serkan Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Finally, car threw a CEL !!!!! P0355 Crank position sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serkan Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Seems like problem is solved. Before changing the crank sensor I wanted to make sure the connector or pins on the sensor weren't damaged. And there I saw one of the sensor pins bent upwards. Straightened, plugged back and car fired up right away. I let it idle for 10 mins and shut it off (myself) because it was dark and car is a mess from trying bunch of things. Needed to put everything back together before something else failed. So far problem is fixed. I don't know why it took ecu so long to let me know the issue. I didn't try starting the car in gear again. Will try that tomorrow. I don't care if it does as long as car runs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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