buying an 05 LGT

[hakkalugi]

Hey guys, new to the group, former volkswagen driver, I've been looking for a subaru for a while now, my choices slimmed down to a wrx bugeye wagon or a LGT. Ive looked at a bunch of bugeyes and its hard to find one not beat on and without modifications. At least in my price range (~6500). I found a very nice red LGT 05 with 160k on it for 6200. I took a look at it and its got some small dings on the passenger side, nothing major other than a deer was hit with it early on in life and a front quarter panel was replaced and the bumper was repaired and resprayed. the color matches perfect and faded evenly, the paint itself is in very good condition. Theres no visible rust on the body/underside it all looks very solid. A good friend of mine in a technician that specializes in subaru's. The owner let me take it down to him for a once over, when we got it in the air just about all looked good. A passenger inner axle boot had just begun to sling a little grease, on the ride over it sounded like a front wheel bearing may be starting to go (although it may very well have been noisy tires it was my first ride) i couldn't pinpoint it on the short drive. The rear sway bar bushings are in need of a replace, they're just a little sloppy. Everything els checked out nicely. The car was owned in the family since 07', the sellers son traded him for a honda that was easier to daily drive on a long commute everyday, the seller just wants something like his old car again as he sort of got stuck with the legacy. He's showed me a few recent bills he had done and said he has more he needs to locate from his son, a new turbo was recently fitted, he said it was 'aftermarket' but it didn't seem like it was much faster than a stock one would be. Other than that the car is 100% stock and even had the factory plastic skid plates still fitted to the bottom. Its got a fresh inspection as of last month. I told him what was wrong with it and he also pointed some things out to me. The trunk seems to be a little sticky, it won't release unless someone is pulling on the trunk slightly while pulling the latch from the driver compartment or pressing the button on the key, anyone have input on that? All power everything works and the seats get warm quickly. No major issues that I can see, is there anything special I should be looking for? Thanks for any input guys I'm looking forward to broaden my knowledge into the subaru world.

 

My old car was a 03 GTI 1.8t, I also have an 83 Jetta Turbo Diesel thats my project, its in the paint booth now and will debut this spring!

 

-Max

[Dujo]

Well, 05 LGT over a bugeye seems a pretty easy choice. Not that bugeyes aren't great, but you're right, trying to find one that hasn't been abused is likely to prove fruitless. In addition, weren't bugeyes older than 05? So newer car is always better.

 

At any rate, LGT with 160k is a lot of miles, but not totally unreasonable. Just keep in mind that all high mile turbo Subarus have the potential to have higher maintenance costs because this is the age when things start to go and turbo systems have a lot of very fast moving parts in tight tolerances and expensive components to replace. All that lack of rust is good news. Mine is a disaster of oxidation underneath (New England winters).

 

That cv axle joint boot is very common on these. The boot is just very close to the downpipe and the extra heat makes it wear faster on that side. Easy fix. Less than $100 bucks for the boot kit. Generally, the axle doesn't even need replaced unless it is damaged.

 

Wheel bearings is also a very common known issue with this vintage of LGT. Replace all four and move on with your life. Factor the cost in on your purchase price, but in the end, not a reason not to buy.

 

As far as those swaybar bushings go, just upgrade the sways and get poly bushings while you're at it.

 

Now the turbo replacement is actually a little bit more concerning. This site is littered with stories of people that blew a turbo and then just slapped on a new one and it blew within 5000 miles. A blown turbo is a tough fix on the LGTs because the turbo shares oil with the engine. A blown turbo could have deposited metal in the oil which could have found its way back into the engine. Even dealerships struggle to get this one right. It requires a lot more steps than just slapping on a new turbo. If they replaced the turbo before it blew, it should be fine. This is about the time when the original turbo should have been replaced as a preventative measure anyway. If it did blow and if they stopped driving it *immediately*, it's also probably fine. If it was repaired properly with dropped oil pan (new oil pan?), new oil pump, new oil cooler, then it might be okay. It's just riskier. Is it riskier than a different LGT with 160,000 miles and the original turbo? Shrug. I dunno. Any turbo Subaru of that mileage really needs to start thinking about replacing a turbo (hopefully) before it blows anyway, so you should factor that into a purchase decision when looking at cars this old anyway.

 

Also, this unknown aftermarket turbo would worry me a little too? What is it? Was the car properly tuned for it when it was installed. You cannot install an aftermarket turbo without a tune to go with it. Or you can, but it will eventually destroy the motor because you are moving way more air than the ECU thinks you are, which will lead to extreme lean conditions and plenty of knock and boom boom goes the motor. It may have been tuned as the seller doesn't seem to really know the whole story, but it would be good to find out those details. You'd also like to know that quality turbo was used and not some cheap chinese ebay knockoff.

 

I'm not saying this one is definitely bad, but its risk factor just went up a lot. GLWP. Welcome to LGT.com!

[hakkalugi]

Well, 05 LGT over a bugeye seems a pretty easy choice. Not that bugeyes aren't great, but you're right, trying to find one that hasn't been abused is likely to prove fruitless. In addition, weren't bugeyes older than 05? So newer car is always better.

 

At any rate, LGT with 160k is a lot of miles, but not totally unreasonable. Just keep in mind that all high mile turbo Subarus have the potential to have higher maintenance costs because this is the age when things start to go and turbo systems have a lot of very fast moving parts in tight tolerances and expensive components to replace. All that lack of rust is good news. Mine is a disaster of oxidation underneath (New England winters).

 

That cv axle joint boot is very common on these. The boot is just very close to the downpipe and the extra heat makes it wear faster on that side. Easy fix. Less than $100 bucks for the boot kit. Generally, the axle doesn't even need replaced unless it is damaged.

 

Wheel bearings is also a very common known issue with this vintage of LGT. Replace all four and move on with your life. Factor the cost in on your purchase price, but in the end, not a reason not to buy.

 

As far as those swaybar bushings go, just upgrade the sways and get poly bushings while you're at it.

 

Now the turbo replacement is actually a little bit more concerning. This site is littered with stories of people that blew a turbo and then just slapped on a new one and it blew within 5000 miles. A blown turbo is a tough fix on the LGTs because the turbo shares oil with the engine. A blown turbo could have deposited metal in the oil which could have found its way back into the engine. Even dealerships struggle to get this one right. It requires a lot more steps than just slapping on a new turbo. If they replaced the turbo before it blew, it should be fine. This is about the time when the original turbo should have been replaced as a preventative measure anyway. If it did blow and if they stopped driving it *immediately*, it's also probably fine. If it was repaired properly with dropped oil pan (new oil pan?), new oil pump, new oil cooler, then it might be okay. It's just riskier. Is it riskier than a different LGT with 160,000 miles and the original turbo? Shrug. I dunno. Any turbo Subaru of that mileage really needs to start thinking about replacing a turbo (hopefully) before it blows anyway, so you should factor that into a purchase decision when looking at cars this old anyway.

 

Also, this unknown aftermarket turbo would worry me a little too? What is it? Was the car properly tuned for it when it was installed. You cannot install an aftermarket turbo without a tune to go with it. Or you can, but it will eventually destroy the motor because you are moving way more air than the ECU thinks you are, which will lead to extreme lean conditions and plenty of knock and boom boom goes the motor. It may have been tuned as the seller doesn't seem to really know the whole story, but it would be good to find out those details. You'd also like to know that quality turbo was used and not some cheap chinese ebay knockoff.

 

I'm not saying this one is definitely bad, but its risk factor just went up a lot. GLWP. Welcome to LGT.com!

 

I appreciate the reply! The turbo was one of the main things I was worried about too! Im going to give him a call today and see if he has anymore info. The car I just sold had 180K so going to 160 feels good lol, although it is still pretty high I have seen quite a few a lot higher and the condition is great for the miles which shows the car really was taken care of (I live in NEPA and usually our winters eat cars up). The bugeye is a little older but definitely appeals more to me aesthetically & i could use the room of the hatchback. Im kind of happy going with the 2.5 because my buddy has a couple extra motor's around (not sure if there is difference in the block between a non gt and gt) that he would let go cheap if I ever did need one.

[Dujo]

Could always get an LGT wagon.

 

Fyi, the non-turbo 2.5 (EJ253) is not really compatible with the turbo 2.5 (EJ255 in the LGT and WRX, EJ257 in the sti). The compression ratio is different, which means the pistons are different. I dunno for sure about the cams, but I would guess they are different (edit: now that I think about it, I think the 253 is SOHC and the EJ255/257 is DOHC, so the heads and cams are very different). The blocks might be more similar, but I'm not sure. More research here would reveal that for you. The ECUs are definitely not compatible at all.

 

Seems like they should have more parts in common since they are pretty much the same design/architecture, but there are enough differences in engineering requirements between turbo and non-turbo that a lot of the parts are not interchangeable, unfortunately.

[Dujo]

One other thing. If you really want some piece of mind, you should really probably spring for a pre-purchase inspection from a local Subaru specialist (not a dealership). If you are in NE PA, you may be reasonably within driving distance of AZP Installs in NJ. Extremely knowledgeable and helpful vendor on this site. Expert in turbo Subarus. Check in with Mike and do whatever he tells you to do.

 

Not that your buddy might not also be competent too. Did you guys check for shaftplay on the turbo (likely a low-value test if it really is a new turbo, but still good piece of mind check). What about compression/leakdown test? Leakdown may not be totally necessary, but compression test is really a must-do. Go with whatever your comfort level and budget dictates, but just be wary that if the engine blows, it will double the price of the car. Suddenly, 160,000 mile non-runner LGT for $13,000 is a lot less attractive. Again, I'm not saying don't do it, just go into it with your eyes wide open about the worst-case scenario possibilities. If it does happen, you can probably part it out instead of fixing it and get close to your money back, but what a pain in the ass.

[hakkalugi]

Awesome I appreciate the response. We were in a bit of a rush and didn't have time to check compression in all four cylinders, i suspect low compression would have gave me some sort of misfire or noise or something strange, she ran beautifully smooth through all 5 gears on my ~7 mile drive so I suspect no low compression, he also said he hardly put any oil into it at all between oil changes (my volkswagen used to eat 1+ qts every 5k). I didn't check for shaft play but visibly its a new looking turbo, id like to look more into it when I do get the car.