SpecB82 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thinking of tracking my car this year a few times and had a few questions for people that HAVE EXPERIENCE. Have you run in to any cooling issues? If so, what did you do to overcome it? If you experienced understeer, how did you overcome it? What suspension improvements have you made? I'm used to running lightweight RWD BMW's, so this will be my first experience with a "heavier" AWD car. Thanks for the help. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.hicksta Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hit up Strizzy or Boxkita. EDIT: and wpmarky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have 10-12 days on my 08 spec.b and 5 days on my 05 LGT 5eat. No cooling issues, use your cooldown lap to cooldown not for a hot lap. I also run my engine in the parking lot for a couple minutes to let the coolant cycle through and cool down gradually There's a million things you can change that affect turning (tire psi, tire width, ride height, spring rate, dampening, sway bars, LSD's). I think I've tried almost everything available for our car, and these stood out: Bilsteins/pinks + 20mm avo rsb + an alignment from a shop that really knows subies worked really well. I also ran 6k/8k BC Coils +22mm fsb/25mm rsb, and it still wasn't that tail happy but turn in was a tad slow. Rough ride on bumpy roads & potholes My wagon is currently on RCE 9k/9k's with oem sways, worked pretty well for me at laguna. Slower turn in, but more comfotable on potholey SF. I came from an e36 m3, it's hard to compare the LGT to bimmers, If that's what you're goal is, you may wanna try: bilstein HD's + swifts or pinks KW coilovers Bilstein pss9's RCE Tarmac 7k/7k Then get adjustable swaybars until you get the feel you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidInSeattle Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I took my car out for a track day last year. I am on stock 06 Spec B suspension with the exception of a 20mm rear sway bar. The tended to understeer with the stock rear sway bar and the larger one helped. I topped off the coolant before the day started and I puked some coolant out the overflow tank after the first run. But that was it. I will stick with my old 2002 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac88 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No cooling issues on my lgt. yes they understeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiot4hire Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I wouldn't touch anything except tires until you have brought tracked it a few times first. Then again I am extremely novice compared to others on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 If it's your first track day, go out and just have fun stock. Keep in mind you'll hit the limit of most OEM pads if you get hauling. I'd start with pads/rotors/fluid. Carbotechs, inexpensive blanks and some ATE. If you don't have summers you may want to get a good set to have fun at the track. You'll grease up A/S tires pretty quickly. There's a bunch of info on here but good prep, and cooling down will save you headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecB82 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 The car is just my DD. It currently is stage 2 with H&R springs and Whiteline anti-lift kit. Other than that there are no other "upgrades". Just want to make sure the car won't overheat add I don't have much experience tracking a FI car. Thanks for all the input. Thoughts on upgrading the RSB only. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You will want to run some higher oc gas in there due to FI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlxdrummer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't have experience with an LGT, but keep an eye on your oil. My VR4 has a front mounted oil cooler and with "fake synthetic" such as Castrol Syntec, my oil pressure drops significantly after beating on it. Maybe consider a slightly heavier oil or higher quality oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecB82 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 You will want to run some higher oc gas in there due to FI. Higher than 93? If so, why? Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Thinking of tracking my car this year a few times and had a few questions for people that HAVE EXPERIENCE. Have you run in to any cooling issues? If so, what did you do to overcome it? no. Cooling doesn't happen below 35mph, so you need to put it in 5th and idle the last lap. be sure to get off everyone's bumper so you get airflow into the radiator. Turn off all accessories (radio, seats, lights, toys, etc) although it can help to run the heater on mid-range (set it to blow out the vents, helps if you run with the windows down to use the window side vents) If you experienced understeer, how did you overcome it? slow down. If you are coming from rwd bmw, assuming you tracked them? they would understeer, however, lots of camber & wide tires tended to counter-act that. With the LGT, you'll be on narrower tires and have a tendency to over-drive the car because the turbo comes on at the same time as you're trying to find front end grip. You'll do better to start your acceleration before apex as you'll have boost as you exit the apex, however, this will require some trailing brake to keep the front loaded (note: this is not matting the throttle, but a gentle roll-on of throttle - akin to bmw exiting a decreasing radius turn). As noted at beginning, you'll need to slow down more in the LGT to avoid over driving the tires. it is possible to setup a turn so that you target the apex being 10 feet or more inside the actual apex and matting the throttle (assumes you are close to being on boost) and letting the understeer take you to track out (do this wrong, and you will go off track badly). again slow down. What suspension improvements have you made? I started with stock setup on all-seasons. then sways. then tires. then full upgrade to bc coils & bushings/braces. The longer you can run with what you have, the faster you'll be. If you are not using video matched to datalogging, you'll never get fast. truth sucks. If you are not prepared to spend money on wheel bearings and race brakes, look to the straights as a way to cool off your car. I'm used to running lightweight RWD BMW's, so this will be my first experience with a "heavier" AWD car. Thanks for the help. This thread is a good start - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/amateur-motorsports-and-you-can-get-involved-you-legacy-199487.html As your avatar has no info, where are you located and what tracks do you plan to run? A question you didn't ask, and should prepare for is brakes, tires & wheel bearings. You have a heavy car, and so will be putting higher loads on these things. Brakes: Brakes Pads: never tracked & running on a tight track: oem is good for first couple of days some track days: street performance/autox pads Lots of track days or a fast driver or fast track: race pads Brake rotors: Centric Premium blanks is more than enough for anything you'll do. Slotted/Drilled/etc are not going to make much difference. If you truly are driving at a level where that is important, brake ducting will be a much better expenditure Brake fluid: Yes. Regardless of how new/old it is, get a brake fluid flush. RBF600/ATE Blue600 are recommended. All are rated to 600 degrees or so. If you exceed this temp and boil your brake fluid, pray that whatever is in front is soft. Unless you have awesome skills, you are going off track. MBC brace: Regardless of the hype you're going to here, this is pure bling and just adds weight in the wrong place. BBK: I ran OEM calipers for 3 years on my wagon. Never upgraded the calipers. A BBK is only going to help if the brake pad area is greater than what you are replacing. There is more hassle and less wheel options. Before spending money on this, I'd upgrade my datalogging/video options and get better instructors. Wheels bearings: Yes. You need these. If yours are making noise now, they will be howling by the end of your first day. If you get serious, expect to be replacing them more often. The Subaru bearings come with a 12month/12k miles no questions asked guarantee. You can figure for yourself how that would help you. I destroy a set every track day. wheel bearings were my single biggest expense. Adding brake cooling probably would have done much to preserve them. Especially if cooling both the hubs & the rotors. Check out pegasus racing for ducting options. Tires: Here again, everyone has an opinion. Depending on how you drive, depends on how long your tires will last. You want the biggest treadblocks you can find. Preferably you want tires that can be swapped left to right, and rim to rim. On a CCW track, expect wear to be like this (most to least) RF > LF > RR > LR. For a CW, swap those. All season tires have no place on a track. You are looking for max performance summer tires. If you want a cheaper option, look into a Toyo RA1 and shave it (especially if you heat cycle it first). Slicks are not indicated until you have upgraded many other components first. Otherwise you'll just tear up your car and waste your tires. A wider tire than 225 or 235 is not going to make you faster. i can generate 1.4G on 235's, which is enough to pop me out of the seat. Use a narrower tire with a lower aspect ratio. Your tires are going to roll, the stiffer & shorter the sidewall, the better your experience. You are looking for high-performance tires that give good feedback at the limit. A loud squeal followed by a trip thru the dirt is not going to teach you anything. Michelin SuperSport or Dunlop Direzza Z1/Z2 has been a good tire for tracking. Others have used the Federal RSR. If you feel the need to run slicks, I'm a huge fan of the BFG R1 (you'll need serious mods to use this well). Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Fuel: A higher octane will help the engine run cooler. If you are tuning, tune for 93. Then run the highest octane you can get/afford. I was using 108 at $10/gal which leads to $300 days. However, I was getting closer to 10mpg on that. On costco/arco special, it was closer to 6mpg. Oil: You will likely have oil starvation issues, especially on CCW tracks. Run a thicker oil on track day. I use 15w50 on a normal basis and on track days. Partly this is due to a forged engine with higher clearances. However, even before I built the engine, I ran higher numbers for my oil. Bring a gallon of oil to track. And check it before every session. I actually checked before and after. My OEM engine exploded due to oil starvation. My current engine uses the KillerB oil pan with extra capacity. I still take a gallon to the track. Boost: If you have the capability to turn your boost down, do so. As you know from your BMW, its not how much power you have, its how smooth that power comes on and how long it lasts that's more important. A nice flat torque plateau is much more effective that a pyramid shaped torque curve that punts you every time you get on it. Instruction: If you have an Audi club near you, try to take days with them. They are used to the joys of AWD on the track. Try to find someone who tracks their Audi. Get them as an instructor. If I have to talk about getting an instructor, then ignore all of the above. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecB82 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Great stuff. Thank you. I have plenty of track days under my belt, but not with AWD and not with forced induction. My main concern was cooling. Good to know about oil consumption as well. The brakes are good as I installed new StopTech rotors, pads and lines less than 6 months ago. I live in NH so I'll be going to NHMS and Lime Rock. I plan on running 235/45/17 or 245/40/17 Conti DW's. We get a great deal on Continental tires as the company I work for races in the Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge. Will a 22mm rear bar make enough of a difference in getting rid of some understeer? Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecB82 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Good idea with the Audi club Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I live in NH so I'll be going to NHMS and Lime Rock. - Specb Subaru Race team at Lime Rock - average joe at Lime Rock - don't do this I plan on running 235/45/17 or 245/40/17 Conti DW's. We get a great deal on Continental tires as the company I work for races in the Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge. Will a 22mm rear bar make enough of a difference in getting rid of some understeer? More front camber is going to help with that. Adding more caster as well. It's still not going to be the same experience as your BMW. Slowing down at entry of turn, trail brake until apex, roll on throttle to bring up boost and track out, mat the throttle as you approach track out. Its possible to pitch the car, however, this requires a very firm setup on the front (replace all bushings on the LCA with high durometer, add the ALK-M whiteline kit, cusco front chassis brace, steering rack bushing, solid swaybar links, stiffer front springs, > -2 degrees camber). Once you get all that, you'll need a high-quality strut to provide good high-frequency bounce support. I added in a good deal of rake (coilovers) to preload the front wheels. Regardless of how much bar you add in the back, the tendency to plow will be very strong. If you were to fit a DCCD pro along with a front diff, you might be able to dial in more front bias. When you set it up, I opted for a little bit loose in the rear so I could throttle steer. This helped greatly in turns where getting the turn started was critical. A very sticky tire will help here as well, if you get the front pressures at very sticky and the rears a little loose, you'll be pretty good. If you have a good set of brakes and can keep them cool, you can opt for a hard brake just before turn in to heat/load up the tires, this will help with turn in. You'll need to be smooth though, or you'll over heat and be stuck. Trail braking will help keep pressure on the fronts and help prevent the rear from sliding out. Your BMW at the limit should have responded well to that, too. As soon as you can get out of the brakes, a light touch on the throttle (you don't want the front to popup - good struts/co will help here) will balance g forces in corner and get you to track out. I found this to be the hardest thing to learn to do well. Had more than a few off track excursions getting. However, once figured out, I was nearly unbeatable (until my brakes boiled ) Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Higher than 93? If so, why? Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Less risk of knock. You'll be rolling on and off the throttle, might be giving the ECU some fun inputs and it'll be some added protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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