help with a build plan?

[Wheelerboy12]

Im Saving to get a legacy outback by summer, I spent the last three weeks doing extensive research here and on other forums before I even made an account and started posting annoying questions like HOW DO I MAKE A SuBARU FASTERRR, and I’ve come up with what i think to be a pretty solid build plan, but theres some holes that i would like some help filling, any input would be great, and if something else i have is wrong, or something else would work better let me know, I’m just trying to make sure i get this right the first time, so I don’t have to make posts like “I put a cold air intake on why am i not a race car?”

 

So here we go

 

My plans:

 

1994-99 Legacy outback with a 2.5L and a 5 speed

White or bright red.

 

First off before I even think of buying an “upgrade” part I will be maintaining everything with oem parts (unless theres an aftermarket upgrade for it, AKA poly bushings instead of rubber)

Things that fit in the performance maintenance parts imo are

-Full polyurethane bushings for the suspension and trans mounts (Whiteline stuffs)

-brakes

 

After its in good running shape and well maintained i’ll begin the upgrade process with suspension. Theres no need to go faster until the car can handle. I want to be proficient driving it how it is before I add more speed. You know, dont make the car faster till you can drive it at its limits. Then up the limits. Down below is a list of my suspension/handling upgrades, and even what my base alignment will be.

 

-Front sway bar/endlinks

Whiteline 22mm Adjustable BSF19XZ

Whiteline Extra Heavy Duty KLC31

Whiteline Front Endlink Bushings W22259

 

Rear sway bar/endlinks

Whiteline 22mm Adjustable BSR19XXZ

Whiteline Extra Heavy Duty KLC26

Whiteline Rear Endlink Bushings E22260

 

Poly bushings

Whiteline Front Control Arm Front Bushing W51709

Whiteline Front Control Arm Rear Bushing W51710

Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings 25mm

Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings 30mm

Whiteline Rear Diff Cradle Bushings W91380

Whiteline Rear Diff Outrigger Bushings W91379

Rear Control Arm Inner & Outer Bushings W61382

Whiteline Rear Trailing Arm Front Bushing W61381

Whiteline Rear Trailing Arm Rear Bushing W61383

 

Bracing

Whiteline Front Strut Tower Brake KSB660

Whiteline Rear Strut Tower Brace KSB590Q

 

For springs and I will be using KYB struts and coils out of an 06’ STI (yes thats very specific, thats because my friend drives an 06’ STI… we’ll be seeing more of his parts down the line...even his turbo…)

 

Eventually ill end with these ----> Apexi N1 EXV Coilover Kit Subaru WRX 2002-2007 / STI 2004

 

For my alignment i will start out with the below and tune from there

Front camber: -3

Rear Camber: -3

Front and rear toe: 0

and 0 thrust angle

 

I have not made a tire choice, any recommendations on tires would be awesome.

 

Ok so here comes the interesting/fun/fast part (this is where 90% of the holes in my plan are, so input would be awesome)

 

To start, all I will be doing to the car while its N/A (remember i mentioned the sti turbo?) is:

 

Cold air intake

Exhaust

lightweight pulleys

and a lightweight flywheel.

 

I am not expecting much power maybe 30hp total, just enough to make it a little bit of a better DD (mountains and such) and the exhaust is mainly just to promote the suby rumble lol

 

This is where it gets fun

I’m going to buy an EJ22E, pull the heads, strip it down and rebuild the short block, and begin collecting parts. (see below for parts) Once I finish collecting said parts I’m going to pull out my EJ25D and strip it down and I’m going to rebuild the heads. I am going to swap the heads around, right about now i bet most are thinking oh another EJ25D with EJ22E heads, well no, its the other way around, I’ll be dropping in the EJ22E block W/EJ25 heads and selling the EJ25 block W/EJ22 heads (I figure this is the most cost effective way to do it, seeing as the popular upgrade is high compression with EJ22 heads I think I’ll be able to recoup more then I spent on getting the EJ22, which is why I decided to start with a EJ25 legacy instead of just getting the 2.2 off the bat, that and the fact that it will probably be a year or two after owning it that I’ll save up the money for boost and I don’t think I would be able to put up with the EJ22 that long haha)

 

Boost parts (this is where i need a little help)

-Upgraded clutch

-Sti 6 speed or WRX 5 speed whichever i find

-custom up and down pipe and custom exhaust

-560 CC STI injectors

-STI turbo I want to run 12psig maybe even more

-STI top mount, or a front mount, Haven't decided

-Pretty sure I’ll need some sort of fuel pressure regulator that will raise pressure with boost

-walbro 255LPH fuel pump

This is where my research kinda halts and I need some help

Mainly, what should I use for the ECU? A piggy back? if so what kind?

and im sure im missing a few things so any help would be awesome!

[twisty]

 

 

For springs and I will be using KYB struts and coils out of an 06’ STI (yes thats very specific, thats because my friend drives an 06’ STI… we’ll be seeing more of his parts down the line...even his turbo…)

 

i have a set of 06 STi struts and springs in my back room waiting for install on my 95 wagon. the rears fit right on, the front struts will need to be either modified or replaced to fit, the bolt holes are a bit off from the 2nd gen. struts

[monkeyposeur]

You'll also need a notched crossmember for the downpipe to clear.

 

I wish I knew more about piggyback systems so I can't help you out there. You can get a rising rate fuel pressure regulator on ebay for $40. Of course a standalone for em would be an option and then you could have a lot more tuning capabilities than hoping a piggy back system will work. Sometimes the ecu will 'learn' its way around a piggy back but like I said I don't have enough experience to recommend anything. If you are only running 5-6 psi you could probably get away with just the stock ecu and the rrfpr.

 

For my build I am using a 02 WRX ecu, 205 heads, and wrx intake mani with a wiring harness merge. I chose that route because it seemed the least complicated, lol.

 

I'm not sure if the 560 STi injectors will fit in your fuel rails so you'll have to look into that.

 

For internals on the 22e an inexpensive way to go would be STi rods (can be had for cheap on NASIOC), and some Wiseco .020 OS pistons, but those will set you back about $450 and you'll have to factor the cost of machining the block. You'd have a lower comp ratio 8.1:1 or so which would help avoid detonation. A Phase 2 22e shortblock will have the #5 thrust so you can drop in an STi crank and have better oiling capacity.

[Wheelerboy12]

i have a set of 06 STi struts and springs in my back room waiting for install on my 95 wagon. the rears fit right on, the front struts will need to be either modified or replaced to fit, the bolt holes are a bit off from the 2nd gen. struts

 

My understanding was that STI struts after 05 won't work due to the bolt pattern swap from 5x100 to 5x114, witch is why I am only using the springs And KGB struts, and then eventually the apexi coilovers for an 02-07 WRX.

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[Wheelerboy12]

You'll also need a notched crossmember for the downpipe to clear.

 

I wish I knew more about piggyback systems so I can't help you out there. You can get a rising rate fuel pressure regulator on ebay for $40. Of course a standalone for em would be an option and then you could have a lot more tuning capabilities than hoping a piggy back system will work. Sometimes the ecu will 'learn' its way around a piggy back but like I said I don't have enough experience to recommend anything. If you are only running 5-6 psi you could probably get away with just the stock ecu and the rrfpr.

 

For my build I am using a 02 WRX ecu, 205 heads, and wrx intake mani with a wiring harness merge. I chose that route because it seemed the least complicated, lol.

 

I'm not sure if the 560 STi injectors will fit in your fuel rails so you'll have to look into that.

 

For internals on the 22e an inexpensive way to go would be STi rods (can be had for cheap on NASIOC), and some Wiseco .020 OS pistons, but those will set you back about $450 and you'll have to factor the cost of machining the block. You'd have a lower comp ratio 8.1:1 or so which would help avoid detonation. A Phase 2 22e shortblock will have the #5 thrust so you can drop in an STi crank and have better oiling capacity.

 

Thanks for the reply! I though I had the cross member up there somewhere ehh whatever, and as for management I only mentioned the piggy back as an option, the guy that inspitlred my build used the ecu from a 92 legacy ss (Im pretty sure, if I wasn't on my hone I'd just pop over and Check) but he was limited at 8 psi due to the maf so in trying to find a way around it so j can run from 10-15.

 

As for internals when it comes down to it if I have the extra money I might consider going that route, but my plan was just to run stock internals with a high quality rebuild.

 

As for the NA portion of my build am I accurately guessing my power gains at about 30hp with the mods I mentioned?

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[Wheelerboy12]

Man you sure can tell the difference from when I'm on my phone and computer haha, my phones making me look like an illiterate idiot haha

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[monkeyposeur]

You won't be able to use the 22T legacy ecu unless you have a 1st gen wiring harness which will require a harness merge as far as I understand. If you go that route you could consider using a 20G ecu and have Rob from bbslegacycentral chip it. You would need to know your exhaust specs and use a jecs MAF among other things and with the Robtune and 20G ecu it will set you back about $500.

 

I would be weary of boosting a 22E with stock internals beyond 6 psi without a standalone or tunable ecu. The pistons won't handle much det and the higher compression ratio of the 22E is going to be a little risky at higher boost levels.

 

A crossmember from a first gen turbo legacy will be a bolt on affair. If you use a WRX crossmember you will need some additional bits of which I don't know the specifics.

 

Do you have a link to the build you mentioned?

[Wheelerboy12]

Yea its over on nasioc I'll find it And post it, And he used a 1.8 harness merge

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[Wheelerboy12]

Well I won't go the legacy ecu route, what about a wrx like you? Would that be a good fit?

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[Wheelerboy12]

You won't be able to use the 22T legacy ecu unless you have a 1st gen wiring harness which will require a harness merge as far as I understand. If you go that route you could consider using a 20G ecu and have Rob from bbslegacycentral chip it. You would need to know your exhaust specs and use a jecs MAF among other things and with the Robtune and 20G ecu it will set you back about $500.

 

I would be weary of boosting a 22E with stock internals beyond 6 psi without a standalone or tunable ecu. The pistons won't handle much det and the higher compression ratio of the 22E is going to be a little risky at higher boost levels.

 

A crossmember from a first gen turbo legacy will be a bolt on affair. If you use a WRX crossmember you will need some additional bits of which I don't know the specifics.

 

Do you have a link to the build you mentioned?

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2316748

 

That's it. I'm looking to take his base start and test the boost capabilities on it, he seems pretty confident it would run up to 15 reliably, now I'm not taking it to heart, but I've always been one to test limits with cars so I'm going to go for it haha

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[monkeyposeur]

A WRX ecu is a great way to go but unfortunately you need the matching 205 heads and intake mani, coolant crossover pipe, crank gear, engine wiring harness, etc. to run that setup you need almost all of the wrx parts except the block. However, the wrx ecu is tunable so you can gain total control over the timing, fueling trims, turn off cels and stuff. And apparently with the 02 wrx ecu you can install a toggle switch so you can switch between two different maps allowing you to run a conservative tune that you program but flip the switch and use your balls out devil be dammed map, lol. But 205 heads in good condition without spark plug cracks are hard to find for a reasonable price whereas 25D heads are plentiful and have great flow. 22t ecus can be found fairly easily on bbslegacycentral.

 

I looked over mike mikemeyagis thread and recognized him from bbs. He's a badass in my opinion. He knows his stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to do a build like his. That was interesting how using the 25D heads and the 22E gives you a great 8.1:1 comp ratio for boost.

[Wheelerboy12]

A WRX ecu is a great way to go but unfortunately you need the matching 205 heads and intake mani, coolant crossover pipe, crank gear, engine wiring harness, etc. to run that setup you need almost all of the wrx parts except the block. However, the wrx ecu is tunable so you can gain total control over the timing, fueling trims, turn off cels and stuff. And apparently with the 02 wrx ecu you can install a toggle switch so you can switch between two different maps allowing you to run a conservative tune that you program but flip the switch and use your balls out devil be dammed map, lol. But 205 heads in good condition without spark plug cracks are hard to find for a reasonable price whereas 25D heads are plentiful and have great flow. 22t ecus can be found fairly easily on bbslegacycentral.

 

I looked over mike mikemeyagis thread and recognized him from bbs. He's a badass in my opinion. He knows his stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to do a build like his. That was interesting how using the 25D heads and the 22E gives you a great 8.1:1 comp ratio for boost.

 

Yea I'm not sure I'll be doing the WRX ecu, at that point I would just go with my original plan of buying a wrecked wrx/sti and swapping but this seemed so much cooler! and its nice to know I picked a reliable source to follow, would I have to do any harness mods for a 22t ecu? hmmm ill have to look into my options some more, im looking forward to getting my suby! its so exciting to me how interchangeable these cars are!

[monkeyposeur]

Yes, you will need to use a first gen harness or a 1.8 harness like mikemeyagi used to run a 22t ecu. But keep in mind a wrx ecu can run a 2.0, 2.2, or 2.5 block with 205 heads. You can even run D25 heads (not 25d) if you plug the avcs cams and modify the placement of the cam sensors.

 

If you re feeling adventurous then go standalone and you can run whatever head block combo you can think of. I weighed alot of my options and realized that I just needed to make a decision and stick with it, lol. So my path might not be the best but at some point you have to decide what route you want to take and go within. I might change my mind down the road. My advice is to not be in a hurry and do braking & suspension mods first and you know that already, lol. Check the classified on NASIOC all the time and strategically bargain you will come across some great deals.

 

First step get your Subie and get it running its best and you will have some knowledge and experience to guide you later. My build may just be a pipe dream but it gives me something to think about, lol. Fortunately my 1st gen SS Is already turbocharged so when I am able to wrestle it away from my wife I get a little turbo fix to tide me over.

[Wheelerboy12]

Yes, you will need to use a first gen harness or a 1.8 harness like mikemeyagi used to run a 22t ecu. But keep in mind a wrx ecu can run a 2.0, 2.2, or 2.5 block with 205 heads. You can even run D25 heads (not 25d) if you plug the avcs cams and modify the placement of the cam sensors.

 

If you re feeling adventurous then go standalone and you can run whatever head block combo you can think of. I weighed alot of my options and realized that I just needed to make a decision and stick with it, lol. So my path might not be the best but at some point you have to decide what route you want to take and go within. I might change my mind down the road. My advice is to not be in a hurry and do braking & suspension mods first and you know that already, lol. Check the classified on NASIOC all the time and strategically bargain you will come across some great deals.

 

First step get your Subie and get it running its best and you will have some knowledge and experience to guide you later. My build may just be a pipe dream but it gives me something to think about, lol. Fortunately my 1st gen SS Is already turbocharged so when I am able to wrestle it away from my wife I get a little turbo fix to tide me over.

 

The 22t ecu seems like a good fit, my only concern is I don't want to be limited to 8psi like he is, would I be able to upgraded the maf so it will allow me to go higher?

 

And could you point me in the direction of some info on harness swaps?

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[twisty]

My understanding was that STI struts after 05 won't work due to the bolt pattern swap from 5x100 to 5x114, witch is why I am only using the springs And KGB struts, and then eventually the apexi coilovers for an 02-07 WRX.

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

 

nope, the holes dont match up to our suspension on the struts. i read that you could oval holes to make it fit, butthe amount it would require that isaw was more than i want to do. i think it would compromise the stability of the connection. if you do try to fit them, let me know how it goes for you, im curious if its just my set up now.

[monkeyposeur]

Brydon from rs25.com did a great write up on a harness merge with every step documented with pics here: http://www.rs25.com/forums/f128/t141937-brydon-teaches-you-merge-harness.html

 

There are also a few guys that will merge your harness for you if you ship them the two harnesses but it is $800-1000 for the service. Expensive, but they know what they are doing.

 

I'm not completely sure why he maxed out his MAF at 8 psi. Maybe because the 25d heads flow so much better than the 22T heads? I'd have to go and look at what MAF he used. A robtuned 20G ecu allows a lot of boost but requires a JECS MAF, which are easy to find as they were also on a lot of NA 1st gens.

 

The stock 22T MAF isn't limited in that way. Stock boost on the 22T is 8.7 psi and plenty of people turn up the boost to 10-12 with supporting mods. Beyond that you have to install a FCD (fuel cut defender) because at higher boost the ecu will cut the fueling supply for safety reasons. However a FCD is fairly easy to solder together and there are great instructions on bbslegacycentral.

 

Something to consider with an engine swap is the legality of the swap and if you will be able to pass safety and emissions. In my case my car is a 95 which was a transition year between OBD1 and OBD2 so I only have to pass the sniff test which it will easily enough. But some states require a visual inspection of the bay, cat location, etc., and that is where some people run into trouble unless you "know a guy".

[Wheelerboy12]

Brydon from rs25.com did a great write up on a harness merge with every step documented with pics here: http://www.rs25.com/forums/f128/t141937-brydon-teaches-you-merge-harness.html

 

There are also a few guys that will merge your harness for you if you ship them the two harnesses but it is $800-1000 for the service. Expensive, but they know what they are doing.

 

I'm not completely sure why he maxed out his MAF at 8 psi. Maybe because the 25d heads flow so much better than the 22T heads? I'd have to go and look at what MAF he used. A robtuned 20G ecu allows a lot of boost but requires a JECS MAF, which are easy to find as they were also on a lot of NA 1st gens.

 

The stock 22T MAF isn't limited in that way. Stock boost on the 22T is 8.7 psi and plenty of people turn up the boost to 10-12 with supporting mods. Beyond that you have to install a FCD (fuel cut defender) because at higher boost the ecu will cut the fueling supply for safety reasons. However a FCD is fairly easy to solder together and there are great instructions on bbslegacycentral.

 

Something to consider with an engine swap is the legality of the swap and if you will be able to pass safety and emissions. In my case my car is a 95 which was a transition year between OBD1 and OBD2 so I only have to pass the sniff test which it will easily enough. But some states require a visual inspection of the bay, cat location, etc., and that is where some people run into trouble unless you "know a guy".

 

Thanks for the link I'll check it out.

 

As for the maf he said that it was a hitatchi maf that was limited to 8psi

 

I think I'm going to go with the 22t ecu because it seems like the easiest most direct route to take. Should I find a 22t from a sedan that had a 5 speed though? Since the wagons did not come 5 speed.

 

As for legality I have no worries at all. I live in Oregon so we can pretty much do whatever, I could chop this bitch completely in half and weld on a mini truck bed and no one would care, an added benefit is I live in a emissions free county so he problems there either haha! Witch means boost on!

 

I'll really appreciate all the help man!

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[blankdeluxe]

Thanks for the link I'll check it out.

 

As for the maf he said that it was a hitatchi maf that was limited to 8psi

 

I think I'm going to go with the 22t ecu because it seems like the easiest most direct route to take. Should I find a 22t from a sedan that had a 5 speed though? Since the wagons did not come 5 speed.

 

As for legality I have no worries at all. I live in Oregon so we can pretty much do whatever, I could chop this bitch completely in half and weld on a mini truck bed and no one would care, an added benefit is I live in a emissions free county so he problems there either haha! Witch means boost on!

 

I'll really appreciate all the help man!

 

 

ECU's are the same for 5 speed or Auto. One of the pins is just grounded on the 5 speed. So any one of those will work but you won't really have tuning options with that setup.

[Wheelerboy12]

ECU's are the same for 5 speed or Auto. One of the pins is just grounded on the 5 speed. So any one of those will work but you won't really have tuning options with that setup.

 

Hmmm... what about a mega squirt stand alone? I found a few on amazon for 300..? What harness would I need? And what else would I need with it?

 

I'd be interested in learning how to tune myself if I were getting a mega squirt (mainly cause I'm cheap so if I can't do it I learn it rather then pay for it)

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

[blankdeluxe]

Hmmm... what about a mega squirt stand alone? I found a few on amazon for 300..? What harness would I need? And what else would I need with it?

 

I'd be interested in learning how to tune myself if I were getting a mega squirt (mainly cause I'm cheap so if I can't do it I learn it rather then pay for it)

 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 5020T using Tapatalk

 

I'm planning on doing the Greddy Emanage Ultimate for mine. Its a little more expensive then megasquirt but I have heard really good things about it. You could also look into the Emanage blue if you wanted to save some cash. And your still going to have to merge it into your current ECU either way, there isn't a plug and play option for us. But a FSM and a wire diagram for the piggyback should give you plenty of info to tie them together. I'm also going to try and tune myself as much as I can just cause I like to learn how it works and I like to tinker.

 

Right now I'm running a vf11 a 5 psi with no engine management and I hate that I can't fine tune anything. I try to stay out of boost as much as possible right now just to make the motor last til I can monitor everything better but its just so fun to drive once that turbo spools. If you need any help along the way just let me know.

[monkeyposeur]

I've heard good things about Megasquirt's customer service. I'd shoot them an email or give them a call.

[camroncamera]

Yes, you will need to use a first gen harness or a 1.8 harness like mikemeyagi used to run a 22t ecu. But keep in mind a wrx ecu can run a 2.0, 2.2, or 2.5 block with 205 heads. You can even run D25 heads (not 25d) if you plug the avcs cams and modify the placement of the cam sensors.

 

If you re feeling adventurous then go standalone and you can run whatever head block combo you can think of. I weighed alot of my options and realized that I just needed to make a decision and stick with it, lol. So my path might not be the best but at some point you have to decide what route you want to take and go within. I might change my mind down the road. My advice is to not be in a hurry and do braking & suspension mods first and you know that already, lol. Check the classified on NASIOC all the time and strategically bargain you will come across some great deals.

 

First step get your Subie and get it running its best and you will have some knowledge and experience to guide you later. My build may just be a pipe dream but it gives me something to think about, lol. Fortunately my 1st gen SS Is already turbocharged so when I am able to wrestle it away from my wife I get a little turbo fix to tide me over.

 

I know there are stickys and build threads to follow, but it would be awesome if the experienced turbo guys designed and shared a sort of interactive web flowchart and spreadsheet of components required and the source cars they came from, work involved, general costs, simplicty/complexity, performance gains and potential, gotchas, etc. of the various approached to turboing the Legacy (or N/A performance increases, for that matter) as a way to visualize, choose, and prepare a build. Sortable columns (listed by performance, cost, complexity, etc.) might be a fun way to explore these approaches.