Engine running cold at high RPMs???

[Marmaduke]

Hello all!

 

Just bought my first Subaru. It's a 1998 Legacy GT Sedan (5speed) with 170,000 miles. I'm having a really weird issue with it...

 

The temperature seems to be inversely related to my RPMs. When they go up, my temperature goes down. After buying the car, I drove it around 120 miles home, and found that at highway speeds 70-80 MPH, at 3400 RPM, the temperature gauge was a little less than a quarter of the way up. When I "punched it" to get around traffic, I could watch my temperature gauge fall to the C almost as fast as the tach went up. Once I got back on country roads, cruising in 4th gear at 35-40 MPH, the temperature gauge sat nicely at halfway.

 

Outside temperature was was 9º F. Adjusting the heater didn't really seem to help (obviously wasn't blowing hot air when temperature gauge was down).

 

I am really puzzled by this. Although mechanically inclined, I am by no means a "gear head". I'm thinking it's either an issue of too much coolant, something with the radiator, or a thermostat issue. Any suggestions on where to start? I know it's a little cold outside, but not cold enough for the car not to run where it should. Also, should I be worried about damaging the engine by it running cold? It was only at the bottom (cold) for maybe 5-8 minutes before at least returning to a quarter temperature.

 

Thank you for any help!

[SBT]

Welcome to the site and glad you could join us.

 

My recommendation: Missing thermostat

[spooln30]

Yeah the thermostat for sure. ONLY UES A OEM SUBARU t-stat. I've had issues with most of the aftermarket brand t stats.

[Stevo F]

Sounds to me like a missing thermostat or one that is stuck open- agree with the others to use Subaru OEM type thermostats)

[Idaho subaru]

No information from the previous owner as to any issues, or recent repairs, or maintenance done? Reasons for selling?

[spooln30]

I'd hate to say this but if the tstat is removed meaning not there then that means one thing. The previous owner removed it because the headgaskets are shot.

[Idaho subaru]

Dude, that's harsh. First time suby owner and first post, I was going to ease him gently into that possibility...

[johnegg]

if there is know t-stat,

the engine will likely never reach operating temp.

 

t-stats work both ways, keeping it cool, not too hot,

and keeping it warm, not too cold.

 

i lost a head gasket on an 01 on the hiway,

the car would over heat at low speeds and cool off at hiway speeds.

mostly due to low coolant levels.

it was surprising to me that 75 mph air in july would keep the engine cool.

 

check the coolant level ,

top it off and burp it.

look for leaks, drips, old hoses and bad radiator cap.

 

the other possibilities are clogged rad, rad fan not working,

turn on the AC, this will activate the other fan.

 

do both fans come on?

[Marmaduke]

I'm really hoping it's not the HGs... Car would have made it 170,000 miles w/o them blowing. Haven't noticed any oil leaks. Coolant looked good. Maybe a little high if anything.

 

I have zero records on the car. I bought it off a lot for $3,400. It was the ONLY Subaru 5speed I could find for under $7,500.00 in my area with a clean Carfax.

 

I'm replacing a 2000 Integra that was totaled. I still have a few thousand left over from the settlement, so I can put some money into it, but obviously want to mitigate that.

 

I dropped it off at a mechanic that I trust this morning. Really hoping it's just a thermostat issue. I already like this car a lot more than my Integra (which was unmolested and with 125,000 miles).

 

I'll let you guys know what the mechanic comes back and says... And the quote...

 

Thank you for all of the responses. I appreciate all the help. You guys are awesome!

[Stang70Fastback]

I'm really hoping it's not the HGs... Car would have made it 170,000 miles w/o them blowing. Haven't noticed any oil leaks. Coolant looked good. Maybe a little high if anything.

 

The headgaskets on my current car made it to... 170k, lol. Good luck!

[Marmaduke]

Just to brace myself... How much did it cost you guys to get them replaced? I've been quoted everything from $1,200-$2,500.

[Stang70Fastback]

This was back when my parents owned the car, and they paid through the nose because our mechanic turned out to be an idiot... somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000. So not only did they pay too much, but now - 100k miles later - the gaskets are leaking again - which shouldn't happen once you replace them. On long (6-hour) road trips, I have to stop once halfway through and use a turkey baster to transfer coolant from the overflow reservoir back into the radiator, lol.

[SBT]

Stang - It's a sealed system so the coolant ought to "draw" back into the radiator on its own. If it's not, I'd check the radiator cap...unless of course, your HGs are done for certain, then nothing is "sealed".

[Marmaduke]

Found the following:

 

Bad thermostat, and lower radiator hose leaking.

 

Upon further inspections he said the cam seals are leaking bad, which would be fixed by a new timing belt/water pump.

 

He said it has a bad CV boot, and needs a new steering rack as well.

 

All in all, I was quoted $2916.00, but he says the car should run for another 100,000 miles.

 

What do you guys think? I'm looking at being $6400.00 for the car at that point. I'll know it'll be good, but that's a LOT of money.

 

Should I cut my losses and sell it, or invest?

 

On the plus side, he thinks the HGs are good.

[IrishLt]

Ehhh, 3k seems kind of steep for that. Timing kit is going for 400-600 if i remember correct. CV boot is like 5$....whole half shaft is 40-100 depending on brand. Rack is 240-270, yard prices would be even cheaper.

 

Idk, I'm looking at this from doing the work myself. So who knows I could be off, but i would have expected a grand less as a median quote. But, depending where you are located also could explain prices.

 

And as far as dumping the car, I bought one on a whim and it's a champ in my mind. These cars drive forever even if they're falling apart. I'd stick with it and by the time you're done you'll have a solid reliable car for a while to come.

Welcome to the forums and good luck.

-LT

 

PS....before anything gets done.....have the HGs actually checked. Hydrocarbons and all that good stuff. Would be pointless to blow a ton of cash on other stuff only to lose your gaskets 10k later.

[Stang70Fastback]

Stang - It's a sealed system so the coolant ought to "draw" back into the radiator on its own. If it's not, I'd check the radiator cap...unless of course, your HGs are done for certain, then nothing is "sealed".

 

It does draw back on its own when you park the car and let it cool down, which is why for daily driving I have no issues and don't have to touch the coolant system. On a long drive, however, after several hours, enough has been displaced to completely fill the reservoir. It usually lines up pretty well with when I need to stop for gas, so while filling up, I spend two minutes with a turkey baster "resetting" the system by transferring the displaced coolant back into the radiator. Basically manually doing what would normally take an hour of cooldown time to do. Otherwise coolant just keeps getting pushed into the overflow tank until it actually OVERFLOWS and I lose coolant.

[SBT]

Where in the world is he getting $2900.00?

 

 

1. Doubt that the steering rack is that severe, but say it is - $245.00 for a RockAuto rebuilt and 2.5 hours labor: ($495.00)
   
2. Whole RockAuto rebuilt axle - $60.00 and 1 hour time to R&R it: ($160.00)
   
3. TB kit (with water pump and cam seals) - $300.00 and 3 hours: ($600.00)
   
4. Thermo $30.00, Hose $20.00, Subaru coolant and conditioner: $40.00 - $90.00 and 1 hour ($190.00)
   
5. Parts = $695.00 Labor, presuming $100.00/hour x 7.5 hrs = $750.00. Before tax: ~$1450.00
   

[Stang70Fastback]

^ agreed. That price seems a bit... ridiculous.

[Stevo F]

I'd get another estimate on the work that needs to be done. I'm not as hands on as I'd like to be for the bigger jobs, but I've got a mechanic friend who charges me $70 an hour (vs. $100- 110 by the local shops) so that saves me a little $. Still I feel your pain- I paid $4,100 for my car last June and have put about $2,000 more into mostly new tires & complete timing belt job. I'm hoping for at least 100K more miles out of it, but since I can't afford a car payment right now, I think the money invested in the car is worth it (even on a 16 year old car). The only thing that concerns me is if it was totaled, I'd probably get no more than $3- $4K from insurance, but I try to drive carefully and not think about that.

[Marmaduke]

I'm located in Central Washington at the moment if that helps. I'm having him do the radiator hose, thermostat, and oil change since it's there, $350.00, and am taking it somewhere else next week for a competing quote/analysis. I'm also getting a quote from a shop in my old town which is two hours away. I definitely do not have the knowledge to do all this on my own. Nor do I have a garage.

 

The $350 seems steep to me... But at least it'll be done and I won't have to worry about drive-ability while I get the rest of this stuff prioritized and worked out.

 

I know I need to put new tires on the car... Before doing that, should I be worried about the steering rack and CV boot? I don't want to drop $600.00 on tires and then jack up the tread.

 

Will this stuff affect the AWD system at all? I bought the car b/c I drive through the mountains a lot, and really wanted the AWD capabilities.

 

BTW, you guys have been AWESOME. Thank you so much for your time and knowledge that you are sharing with me.

[Marmaduke]

I'd get another estimate on the work that needs to be done. I'm not as hands on as I'd like to be for the bigger jobs, but I've got a mechanic friend who charges me $70 an hour (vs. $100- 110 by the local shops) so that saves me a little $. Still I feel your pain- I paid $4,100 for my car last June and have put about $2,000 more into mostly new tires & complete timing belt job. I'm hoping for at least 100K more miles out of it, but since I can't afford a car payment right now, I think the money invested in the car is worth it (even on a 16 year old car). The only thing that concerns me is if it was totaled, I'd probably get no more than $3- $4K from insurance, but I try to drive carefully and not think about that.

 

Who's your insurance? I totaled my 2000 Integra and they paid out, after a $500 deductible, $1500 more than I paid for the car over two years ago.

 

And I knew I'd have to put money into this car. I paid $3400 for it... Wasn't planning on another $3000 before tires though. That'd eat up my whole settlement check, which is NOT what wanted. =/

[Stang70Fastback]

I know I need to put new tires on the car... Before doing that, should I be worried about the steering rack and CV boot? I don't want to drop $600.00 on tires and then jack up the tread.

 

Will this stuff affect the AWD system at all? I bought the car b/c I drive through the mountains a lot, and really wanted the AWD capabilities.

 

BTW, you guys have been AWESOME. Thank you so much for your time and knowledge that you are sharing with me.

 

It is quite possible that the steering rack is not something that you need to replace right away. It might just be leaking a bit, which wouldn't be a huge issue so long as you topped the power steering fluid off every now and then. That wouldn't affect your tires. If it's just got a lot of play and is causing the car to wander around, that could have an effect on tire wear, though I would think that so long as the vehicle was aligned, it wouldn't do much (it would be the equivalent of just weaving around very slightly on the road - might add a slight amount of wear to your tires, but it won't be anything uneven.)

 

A bad CV joint won't cause AWD issues until it snaps. So long as you replace it before you get to that point (and it should be fairly obvious) you'll be fine. That also shouldn't have any effect on tire wear.

[SBT]

Agree with Stang on the steering rack.

 

Play, unless something is seriously wrong with the steering rack and you'd know it just by how it turns/drives, is typically associated with tie rod ends and/or control arm bushings, all else equal. That will affect your tires.

 

And $350.00 quoted is at least a $150.00 - $200.00 pad to do those few things.

 

Oil Change w/high-quality oil and Subaru OEM filter -$60.00

Replace Thermo, Hose and coolant and conditioner - $190.00

 

Is this place call Gouge City?

[Stevo F]

Who's your insurance? I totaled my 2000 Integra and they paid out, after a $500 deductible, $1500 more than I paid for the car over two years ago.

 

And I knew I'd have to put money into this car. I paid $3400 for it... Wasn't planning on another $3000 before tires though. That'd eat up my whole settlement check, which is NOT what wanted. =/

 

Actually I've got State Farm and they did well for me when a tree fell on my brand new '07 Corolla and they paid me $1,100 more than I had paid the dealer. I was going under the assumption they would pay approximate book value. Edmund's lists my car at only $3,200 (I know Kelly overstates their values). So hopefully I'd have similar luck with State Farm if something happened to this one. Actually on the Corolla they used my comprehensive coverage which is $0 deductible.

[Marmaduke]

Agree with Stang on the steering rack.

 

Play, unless something is seriously wrong with the steering rack and you'd know it just by how it turns/drives, is typically associated with tie rod ends and/or control arm bushings, all else equal. That will affect your tires.

 

And $350.00 quoted is at least a $150.00 - $200.00 pad to do those few things.

 

Oil Change w/high-quality oil and Subaru OEM filter -$60.00

Replace Thermo, Hose and coolant and conditioner - $190.00

 

Is this place call Gouge City?

 

$40 for oil change. $320 for thermostat and hose. I'm assuming I'm being charged for their time diagnosing it too. They had the car in, in the morning, and didn't get back to me until noon. It sounds like it took them a while. I did ask that they do a "pre-buy" inspection too. So maybe that's into it. He's going to break the whole quote down for me tomorrow. I'll update you guys with what it is then.