Changing overall wheel diameter/AT transmition

[Ghost Dog]

Hi guys, I'm Guido from Argentina.

 

I'm sorry if this was asked a thousand times, but I couldn't find anything with the search.

 

I own a 98 Legacy 2.5 GX sedan, the one that comes with stock Momo steering wheel, and all the bells and whistles.

 

The thing is I find the car a little rough, and ridiculously low.

 

My car has 205/50/16" Michelins, and every time I asked a mechanic about upsizing wheels, I get a deffinite NO. One Subaru specialist (not authorized dealer) told me I could go to 205/55 with no issues at all (except for the slight missreading of the velocimeter). Other people have told me it can really screw up the transmition, the ABS system, and all kinds of bad stuff.

 

Then I started reading and investigating the lifting trend, and I see so much people throwing 215/70 and all kinds of huge tires on their legacys and outbacks, and I'm a bit lost.

 

So the question is basically that, whats the deal with upsizing wheels??

I'd appreciate input from people who have actually done it.

 

I'd really like to put some 205/60 16", to get a little more ride comfort, and a tad more clereance.

 

Thank you very much

Cheers

 

 

[Headtrauma89]

As far as I know, as long as all 4 tires are the same, you shouldn't have issues. The problems happen when people mismatch tires/wheels. They all need to be the same circumference (within 1/4 inch) or the transmission and differential will not be happy.

The speedo may be off a tad depending on the size difference too.

[Stang70Fastback]

I would say you probably don't want to do anything particularly drastic for several reasons:

 

1. There isn't that much space between the top of the tire and the lower spring perch.

 

2. A larger diameter tire has the effect of "gearing up" the drive-train. Larger wheels will reduce the effective power of your vehicle. It will be slower to accelerate, and get worse mileage as a result. If you were in a manual, I'd say increased clutch wear would be a side-effect, but yours is an auto.

 

3. Your speedometer will read low, which is illegal.

 

4. Your brakes will be less effective.

 

5. Your ABS system may not function quite right.

 

6. Your handling will become less responsive with the taller sidewalls which deform more before loading up and allowing the tire to respond.

 

That said, if this is just for off-roading/weekend/whatever use, or if you don't particularly care about all of these effects, then go for it. Nothing is going to EXPLODE or be permanently damaged by making these changes. So long as the tires fit and don't rub the fenders or anything else, the only long-term effect will come as a result of the slight stress increase you are putting on the drive-train due to the gearing up. It's basically like riding your bike down the road, but doing it in one gear higher than you are comfortable with. No permanent damage, but you will have to work a bit harder, and you might wear yourself out a bit sooner.

[johnegg]

in the US, 205/55/16 are stock size for the 96 - 99 GT.

 

but there is not a lot of room top go larger than that, as mentioned.

 

the gear ratio is not much of an issue,

since the auto trans has a 4.44 final drive ratio like the outback (205/70/15 tires).

 

BUT if you install outback struts on your car,

it will ride about 2 inches higher,

and you can install outback size tires.

or some size in between.

 

but as mentioned, the speedometer, velocimeter, will be off.

but there is good chance that it reads fast now.

especially if the tires are smaller than stock.

[Ghost Dog]

Hi, thanks for the answers guys.

 

My car is pretty similar to te GT, but is actually a GX.

I think GX in the US was the basic version. Mine is GX but its actually the one with the sporty look, it's pretty low stock, and it has the bumper low lip, fog lights, etc.

I posted a picture but I don't know wihy it doesn't show.

 

205/50 is the original size, says so in the door sticker, so I guess 205/55 wouldn't do much harm, although it wouldn't give much clearance either...

 

The speedometer is already off by aproximately 7km, as in most cars. Don't care much about that, I monitor my speed with GPS, and I dont't drive fast so it's not a concern.

I DO care about the ABS working properly.

 

I'm thinking of getting a subtle solutions 1" lift kit, and then, throwing in some 205/55. or 205/60 at the most.

I think that would give me a more reasonable ground clearance without too much compromise.

 

I appreciate your comments!

 

PS: If I had an outback or a SW, I would go fully monster truck on it, but lifting too much a sedan just looks silly.

 

 

 

 

 

http://postimg.org/image/3n2ssjng9/

[spooln30]

I have a 99 LGT with the stock 205/55/16 for summer and have the Outback 205/70/15 set up with winter tire for the snow. Many have said they would rub especially the rear but I have no rubbing on the rears or front spring perches and the winter tires are brand new. I know for a fact it is the GT suspension.

You say yours is lowered so I know for sure the Outback set up wouldn't work. I enjoy the softer ride mine has with the 205/70/15's they absorb our crappy streets here in Milwaukee. On the flip side the handling is sacrificed a little.

[spooln30]

Is that's a pic of your car? It's not low at all and it's basically a USDM GT. You should be able to fit a 205/60/16 in there without any rubbing. Btw even with the larger overall diameter tires my Speedo isn't off much. When at 55 mph my GPS read 53mph and obviously the faster I go the more it will be off.

[lockmedic]

I think the Subtle Solutions kit is basically spacers for the top of the struts, so you won't get any extra clearance for tires going that route. . . doesn't move the spring perch relative to wheel centerline, just lifts the whole body up off the top mount of the strut.

[Kennyfvholla]

I would screw around trying to lift the car on spacers or whatnot and trying to get the alignment right. I agree with spool. That car is, for intents and purposes, the same as the USDM GT. It is not low in any way except for the tires. I say 205/60R16 is the way you should go. You should have no rubbing issues on the fenders or spring perches.

 

BTW, I want your car... It's gorgous.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for the replies

 

That's an actual picture of my car. I know it doesn't look low in that pciture, because the camera angle is pretty low too. For people who like low cars, it's probably quite high, but believe me, the exaust, the carter, and front bumper, touch the ground much more often than I want. I'm actually having some noises right now beacuse I hit recently driving a shitty dirt road.

 

I'm sure I could fit up to 205/60 without rubbing. My main concern is not the rubbing but damaging the transmition.

[Ghost Dog]

I would screw around trying to lift the car on spacers or whatnot and trying to get the alignment right. I agree with spool. That car is, for intents and purposes, the same as the USDM GT. It is not low in any way except for the tires. I say 205/60R16 is the way you should go. You should have no rubbing issues on the fenders or spring perches.

 

BTW, I want your car... It's gorgous.

 

The car in your avatar looks pretty similar to mine, is that a GT?

[johnegg]

so I guess 205/55 wouldn't do much harm, although it wouldn't give much clearance

 

about 3/8 of an inch

or about 10 mm

 

the rub worry may be in thew front when turning all the way left or right.

[spooln30]

Well if you think about it, the drivetrain is the same in a LGT as a Outback so running a larger overall diameter tires won't hurt it at all. BUT you must run the same size on all four corners. Like I stated above, I run 205/70/15 without issues with my trans or diffs.

[Ghost Dog]

Well if you think about it, the drivetrain is the same in a LGT as a Outback so running a larger overall diameter tires won't hurt it at all. BUT you must run the same size on all four corners. Like I stated above, I run 205/70/15 without issues with my trans or diffs.

 

 

And do you notice a great difference in acceleration/shifting?

 

I'd love to see a picture of that GT

[spooln30]

No it feels exactly the same performance and shifting wise and my MPG's have pretty much stayed the same but this time of year when they switch to that winter blend crap of a gas everybody suffers gas mileage. The only thing I've noticed over the two winters with this wheel/snow tire set up is the handling. It's not super sloppy, it's almost the same as the 205/55/16, it's just a tad more lose in harder corners. This could be contributed to having softer snow tires and the taller side wall but it doesn't stop me from taking them aggressively. Safely of course. LOL.

Running these larger overall diameter tires they do fill up the wheel wells better and they kinda make it look lowered. I'll shoot some pics later today and post them if your interested. I wouldn't normally up size almost 2" but I got the wheel/tire set up for a really great price. $225 for the set of four rims/tires and the winter tires were damn near brand new. The guy I bought them from said he only put 600 miles on the tires when his headgaskets failed and sold the Outback with its another wheel set with all season tires. With having a 205/55/16 with performance summer tires and switching to a larger side wall tire it rides so much better. It's not as harsh when going over crappy streets or those damn potholes my city doesn't like to fill. EVER!

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks Spooln30!

Yes, I am intrested in seeing some pics if you have any, appreciate it.

 

I do feel, besides the ride comfort/height issue, that the 205/50's don't quite

fill the space there, and it looks a little strange. So after installing the lift kit this will be even more so. So I guess I'll have to go to 205/60 for it to look normal.

 

I'm from Buenos Aires (although I'm living in Uruguay right now), so believe me

I know what you're talking about when you mention crappy streets.

[spooln30]

Ghost here's a pic of my LGT with the stock LGT suspension and Outback wheels/winter tires.

[spooln30]

Yes the 205/70/15's fill the gap perfect but next summer I will have a new wheel set with tires. I am going with a Xxr 530 17x8.25 +20 or +25 offset with 225/45/17 but I will also be lowering it with a set of coilovers. This way I don't have to worry about the tires rubbing on the bottom spring perches. Plus I have have any ride height that will be needed for that tire size. I make a mistake in a earlier post, I don't have 205/5516's anymore. In the middle of this past summer I put on a set of 225/50/16 on the stock LGT wheels. My 205's weren't worn but they sucked in the rain and I had 4 brand new Hankook V12's on a set of MK3 Supra wheels so I though mines well try these and they fit without any issues. It handles tons better due to the wider thread and are about a 1/8" taller overall. Probably due to the 225 being mounted on a 6.5" wide wheel. It's not much difference in height at all.

Btw why are you installing lift kit? If you go on tirerack you can see the specs for a lot of different tires. I looked up my winter tires in the size I have on the car now, 205/70/15 and they have a overall height of 26.3". So just pick a size thats close to that 26.3" # but don't go any taller. Mine barely clears but as you see in the pic it fills the wheel well gap perfectly. Remember not all tires in the same size will have the same overall diameter. Here's are three options you might want to look into.

205/60/16@25.7

205/65/16@26.5

215/60/16@26.2

But like I said this won't be the same Overall diameter with every brand. GL.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks, that's some useful info!

 

I want to install the lift kit to get some ground clearance. I feel the car is so low, it's

almost "handicapped" for anything rougher than a perfect smooth city street.

I wnat to travel to patagonia and other rocky/mountain places, and I can't do it the way it is. I can't take advantage of the car and its AWD capabilities if I'm constantly touching the ground, makes no sense (which makes me wonder why the heck would anyone want to lower the car even more!)

 

That regarding the lifiting.

 

Regarfding the tire size, it's both for more ride comfort, and a tad more clerance, even if it is very little, between both things I might get the car the way I want it to be.

 

Your's looks bad ass by the way!

[spooln30]

I like how the gap on mine if filled but these are my winter only wheels and tires. I gain almost 2" of ground clearance with the wheels in this size. For me it's way too much side wall as I love to take corners quickly. Can't wait till next year and to get my new wheels and tires. Mind you if you do go with a tire with an overall diameter of 26.3 you might have to clearance the rear struts lower spring perches. Everyone said I would with the Outback set up but I didn't have too. Not going to work with everybody via different tires with different thread depths. GL.

[Ghost Dog]

Ok, so I've been checking the web you suggested and I found some interesting options,

like for expample Goodyear Efficient grip 205/60-16", which are 25.7" total diameter, so it's still quite less than tha max 26.3" you suggested, so I guess that could work just fine.

[spooln30]

Where you live do you get snow fall cuz those Goodyears are going to suck in winter weather for sure. With that 205/60/16 you less than 1" taller its probably 3/4" or .75mm taller so you probably won't notice a huge difference with a softer ride or filling the gap. I would look for a 215/60/16 tire. Most will be around the 26" mark and should clear the struts easily.

[spooln30]

Duh you live in Argentina so most likely no snow for you. LOL. Yeah if you don't want to go too big the 205/60/16 should work good for what you need it to but remember since you mentioned a lift kit coming maybe a larger tire would look a little better. GL.

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah, well actually I'm living in Uruguay right now, but it's the same latitude as Buenos Aires and no snow here.

Argentina DOES have snow all over patagonia in winter of course, but I live around the Buenos Aires area and no snow around there.

I would absolutely go for 215/60 if I was absolutely positive about not having any non-desirable consecuencies like ABS failure, strut rubbing, weird ride, etc

 

I'm such a pussy hehe, but tires are so damn expensive here, and my Michelins are almost brand new so it's a big expense for an "experiment"