stevetro1 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Well I have my 1998 Legacy GT engine removed and torn down for HG replacement and several other things, two if which are oil leaks at the rear of the engine. The separator plate is obviously leaking and I will replace it with the upgraded metal plate/screws. I also noticed that the rear main seal has what appears to be a small leak at the lower right. I'm reading too much negativity about doing the rear main seal and how sensitive an installation it is that I'm getting scared of causing a bigger leak. Should I do it? If I ensure that it is aligned with the beveled recess as I've read, then how can I go wrong? Without the Subaru tool for seating such a large seal, what technique have others used? I'm thinking maybe a small block of wood and a light mallet. Ideas? On another note - I'm driving myself nuts trying to find the 3M Ultra Pro black sealant for the other areas that call for Three Bond, but absolutely no chain stores near me carry 3M. Is the Permatex Right Stuff Grey as good as I hear so I should just call it a day and get that? Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Rear main seal is a bit of a bugger to get in there, just have to keep the motor steady and yes a block of wood will work just fine, I have replicated the Subaru tool using a 2" piece of schedule 40 and a piece of 1/4 inch plate as a coping (haven't used it yet that will be next month). But as long as you tap it in squarely with a 32oz dead blow it will sink to the bevel. I believe the permatex grey is what is used from subarus oil pans just re-packaged and a 100% mark up..I know that is what they use for the oil pan..I used that stuff for my vapor seal back last December and I still have no leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Permatex utra gray works great for sealing the oil pan. I've used it with sucess. Subaru uses Fujibond which is pretty expensive but nice stuff from what I have heard. A cheaper option than Fujibond is to use Hondabond which is the same stuff but less expensive. You can get either type at their respective dealer. If you are scared to replace the RMS yourself drive the block down to the dealer and have them do it. They will charge you about $55. If the leak is very slight it's recommended by some to just leave it be. I replaced mine to be on the safe side, although I was worried about screwing it up. So I took my dismantled shortblock to the dealer and had them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetro1 Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 As for the Permatex grey, was the Right Stuff version workable given its quick 1 minute setup time? That might be a bit of a challenge on an oil pan. Or is the normal Ultra grey the way to go/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Both of those are anaerobic materials meaning that the setup time starts when you put the two flat pieces together and bolt them down. Ultra gray is what you want for the oil pan and vapor seal. Of you were to lay a bead of that stuff and air cure or it would take a couple hours for it to harden, you should have sufficient time to lay the pan on top of it and line up your bolts and tighten them down before it cures. I would tighten the bolts in a sequence sort of like tightening your lug nuts, top left, bottom right, middle left middle right and so on...I'm not sure if there is a sequence in an fsm but that's just a way to keep any deflection out and keep the torque uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetro1 Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 When you mention "vapor seal", are you referring to the oil separator plate at the rear of the engine? Also, I'm familiar with various anaerobic products, and I think you might be mistaken about the Ultra Grey - this is a cure in the open air product. From the spec sheet: "Permatex® Ultra Gray® Gasket Maker cures on exposure to moisture in the air. The product dries tack free in one hour and fully cures in 24 hours. Cure times will vary with temperature, humidity and gap. " just saying ... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Yeah vapor seal, separator, techs at my local Subaru call it that.. Absolutely was mistaken about that product, the anaerobic is what you use on the oil pan, non hardening gasket maker is what was preferred by subaru for the oil pump. No problem I would rather be called on mis-information than let somebody use it the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I used the normal utlra grey and there was plenty of time to work with it. I don't recall the exact sequence I used for the bolts but I think it was something like pleadestar said. You install the pan with a thin bead of sealant making sure you go around each bolt hole, and finger tighten the bolts, let it sit for an hout, and then tighten the bolts down all the way. The torque specs on the bolts is really low, like 3.7 ft. lbs iirc. I used a scotch brite pad to clean the mating surfaces as well. Just do a thin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 anaerobic means it does not dry unless it is exposed to the air. it creates a seal and stays sticky. this is one reason cleaning the oil separator plate seating face isn't harder than it is. the stuff from the factory is still soft. but it seals. ultra gray is more of a fluid, oil, resistant silicone. it does dry, even without air. but it still seals. what you have to watch out for is using too much. you do not want the excess to ''squeeze'' in to the inside of the engine especiall the oil sep plate. the small bits can tear off and flow in the oil up to the valve rocker assembly. more than one subaru mechanic has found bits of the stuff blocking an oil galley on the rocker arm / cam assembly. so be careful. the hondabond, same (as subarubond) is more expensive. but it is not going to come any where close to doubling the repair cost. frankly i wouldn't redo the oil pan gasket unless there was a reason. they don't leak. folks think they do, but it is always something else, oil sep plate rear or front cam seal. and since i NEVER split blocks i have NEVER re-sealed an oil pan. i have cleaned them up, sanded them, painted them, and replaced the dip stick o-rings. but the only time i ever removed one was when i was selling a short block. but whatever. use the ultra gray, just don't over do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Hondabond is way cheaper. A tube is about $10 whereas Fujibond is $36. If you have a cheap source let us know. Hondabond: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Hondabond-High-Temp-Silicone-Liquid-Gasket/dp/B006YTTV4W]Hondabond High-Temp Silicone Liquid Gasket 1.9 fl oz : Amazon.com : Automotive[/ame] Fujibond: http://www.fredbeansparts.com/index.php/subaru-fuji-bond-sealer.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetro1 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Something to keep in mind when comparing these products (assuming similar quality) which lands in Subaru's favor is cost/oz. The Hondabond above is $10 for a 1.9 oz. tube where the Subabond/FujiBond/ThreeBond from Subaru is $37-$40 for an 8.8 oz. tube and all the Permatex out there are about $7-$9 for a 3.3 oz. tube. Looking at it this way means Hondabond is $46 for the same quantity! BTW, I'm going with the 3M UltraPro Black I found at a local Grainger location for $13 for 3.3oz. tube. Did this since its in the Subaru literature as an acceptable equivalent and it appears higher on the heat side at 600F compared to Permatex at 450F. Seems like a safe bet to me. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 ^Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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