Norskie

That's too general of a statement. Most mechanicals seem to have improved; things like head gaskets, CV joints etc seems to be getting better, as well as lower maintenance requirements (timing chains vs. belts). Fit and finish maybe not as good the Legacies/outbacks/impreza, on the other hand our BRZ is outstanding. Maybe not as good as Toyota/Honda, but far better than the Europeans (at least mechanically, not do much fit/finish). With the recent improvements in Kia/Hyundai, Subaru will need to up their game. But I will grant that Subaru has lost it's niche appeal and is appealing to the masses with generic products. Like Harley Davisdon, trying to sell a lifestyle (outdoorys, green, "love") will only go so far when competitors have better products.

Wagons have always done well in Europe. CUV/SUV do better here. I suspect Subaru doesn't have a financial incentive to go through the regulatory hurdles and cannibalization of Outback sales just to sell a handful here.

Oh no, Audi made the worst cup holders. http://www.s93828994.onlinehome.us/ebay/005983/76.jpg My 1998 A4 had ones like that. I think they only thing it could hold was a half-empty can. Everything else tipped out. It would be better to NOT have a cup holder, than to have that shitty Audi thing that promised to hold your beverage only to fling it everywhere later. So here's the story .... Back in 2000 I test drove a 1998 A4 (light grey cloth seats) and they let me borrow it overnight. So I did. Next morning, take myself and my coffee mug to work in that Audi. Mug fit snugly in the holder. First corner (and a sedate one, too) and my mug (which was semi-sealed) was tumbling across the passenger seat, flinging coffee all over the seat cushions, door trim, window, you name it. Go back home and start to mop it up, but there's an obvious stain. Get upholstery cleaner, which worked, but there was an obvious 'ring' where I did the cleaning. Solution: Clean the WHOLE seat. With lots of water, and try to mop it up, but by the end of the work day it was still a wet seat. I did end up buying the car and it was great until it hit 100k and off CPO warranty and everything started to fail and cost thousands to fix (typical Audi!). But rest assured, my wife and I continued to get suckered into using the cup holders and spilling crap everywhere.

Our Legacy has < 10k miles on the Goodyear Assurance tires. Our WRX has 50% of life left on X-Ice tires. BY FAR the WRX is a better winter car, it has more traction and control than the Legacy, despite the worn snow tires. The WRX snow tires are 235mm wide vs. the Legacy's 225mm all-seasons and they're STILL better in the snow. We have new Conti all-season's for the WRX (245mm) which are OK for tiptoeing in the snow but not much more. On our Outback, when both sets of tires were worn, I figured "let's try the newest best all-season performance tires" ... Conti ECWS or something, maybe I can manage without also buying snow tires? They got good reviews from the BMW owners I know in Chicago. Nope. First snowfall and the wagon was fishtailing around like it had RWD. In my experience there is absolutely no question that snow tires are effective. I can only speak from my personal experience, which is 32 years of driving in MN, OR and Norway. I'll take FWD+Snow tires over AWD+All season tires any winter, given the same wear of tires. Stopping and turning is more important than going forwards. In Norway there's no choice. Law mandates when to run which tires. In the Oregon snow zones it's either AWD+Snows or chains and chains suck. The majority (95%?) of my neighbors in southeast MN don't have snow tires, and they manage OK. We don't get much snow here (maybe 60 inches a year?), no mountains, and roads are plowed salted and sanded before 7am. FWD+A/S's are fine ... it just means being more selective when and where to travel and driving appropriately. Driven sanely, the Legacy is fine in the snow but at the first hint of slippage the TC/VSC/CVT brings down the hammer on anything fun. Next winter it will have snow tires, and I suspect that the hammer will just be more effective in reigning in the fun.

I cannot upvote this enough. It's annoying that Subaru promotes an "all weather vehicle" and compromised it like that. Selecting the cold weather package should automatically include a bigger battery and better tires. The Bridgestones on our OBXT were atrocious in all regards .. wet/dry/warm/cold/snow/wear/noise etc. What were they thinking ... Fortunately I bought a CPO Legacy which came with new and better tires which have so far been sufficient in this mild winter (and the WRX with snow's is our backup for really crappy days). But next winter, with A/S tires slightly more worn, will require snows on the Leggy too. Side note - even our BRZ has mediocre tires from the factory. A little too fast on the clutch uptake chirps the tires (and then brings down the TC hammer).

Agreed. Since we have snow tires on the WRX and a very mild winter so far in MN and new A/S on the Legacy we decided to skip snows on the Legacy this year. I prefer to get lightly used snow tires in the spring. 2017. Now that I think about it, it's nothing like a GT, and we no longer have our OBXT, so this probably isn't the right forum. That's a good point. My understanding is that the 2017 CVT power split is 60/40, the OBXT 5MT's (and our WRX) is 50/50, the 535 was 40/60. The OBXT was terrible in that regard; on A/S tires it was like driving a RWD. It took one snowfall to convince me to get snows for it. While I wouldn't be averse to such a course, our Legacy's DSC kicks in way earlier and more severely than our WRX, to the point where I can't do anything but steer and maintain throttle, and hope it makes the right decisions. I suspect taking this car on a winter driving course will have the DSC shut down any antics before I can learn much (at least with DSC on). For example, at low speeds, in the OBXT, WRX or 535, coming around a corner and experiencing understeer, I give it more throttle, the front's hook up and pulls me back on track, while the DSC blinks furiously. Try that in the Legacy and the DSC kicks in, limits acceleration, and car plows wider. But it is slowing down, and it eventually recovers and brings me back on track, assuming I have enough of a shoulder/road to recover before going in to the ditch (or a neighbor's lawn). I should try it later with the DSC off. Another aspect of winter driving ... and this may be a non-M/T thing, rather than specific to the Legacy .. is that whenever I'm at speed and lose traction I push the clutch and steer my way back to control. RWD, FWD, AWD, it has always served me well to remove any hint of engine braking from the tires, and ask to use all their traction to steer. With the CVT I'll need to be very careful with the throttle to not add or remove power when steering.

... and I'm going to guess you clicked on this link to tell me to buy snow tires. You wouldn't be wrong to do so, but that's not really the issue. It's not like it ever gets stuck. It just isn't predicable. I can't get it to do a nice controlled 4-wheel slide around a corner ... the stability control kicks in way early and applies the brakes, scrubbing speed. Nor can I disconnect the engine from the wheels and just steer through a slide. I'm not yet sure whether to blame the overly-aggressive stability control or the CVT. Maybe it's both. The Outback, WRX and 535 were all AWD+MT and while much older, were way more fun and safer in the snow. The outback had no driver aids besides ABS and was by far the most responsive, controllable and predictable on slipper surfaces. The 535 was pretty good too but it always tries to reign in the fun ... for just "point and drive" the 535 did just that with very little fuss. The WRX, being newer with TC and VSC etc, is kind of between the two. Don't mind me, I'm just venting / observing / lamenting.

You only need to look at other brands with 'lifetime' fluids to understand how spectacularly they fail when they go over 100k. There's also the issue of not being able actually check the fluid ... when our A6 started leaking out the prop shaft seal @ 80k, we had no clue how fast it was leaking or how much was left because there was no way to check the fluid without lifting the car and removing the fill plug. There was no drain plug ... the entire pan had to come off, to measure the amount of fluid left. If it were a slow leak we wouldn't bother fixing it, but since we had no clue we had to drop the unit and replace the seal. I asked my SA when we bought it. He said "yup, change the fluid, but we have no guidance from SOA how frequently, so let's consider 60k". He also said it's not really a DIY operation because they need some computer tool to cycle the internal pumps and get it all out.

Do the LGT brakes fit under 16 inch steelies?