schwinn

I believe VF52 turbo is your only choice for drop-in replacement... other than stock, of course. The stocker can put out a good deal to start with anway, with other surrounding upgrades. Just upgrading the turbo will NOT get you more power - to get the most our of it you need a few other upgrades first... as well as a good tune. Stock tune won't get you far, and could even be unusable even with the VF52.

Corrected link: http://www.fredbeansparts.com/servlet/the-1006/NGK-Subaru-Legacy-GT/Detail EDIT: Also, FYI, specs on the plug http://www.ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=16602 says it's a gap of 0.032"...

I believe SeeYa's determination is still a valid theory, and based on his results, it solves the problem (for him, at least). It's been too cold for me to go out there and play with it some, but that's the strongest theory I see at this point, with at least one "solved" case to show for it. That said, there is also the mention of the pre-alignment on the bushing, which I think was mentioned by unclemat? EDIT: My hold up has also been that I don't want to go through SeeYa's process, as it puts the car (my daily driver) out of use for some time (and is really messy!)... I'm hoping that an "insert" type thing might show up or come about from this...

Gmachine - 5th gear? My car doesn't seem to make the noise in higher gears - only lower ones. I would have suggested trying the dyno test in a lower gear, not a higher one. Also, when strapped into the dyno, the vehicle may be loaded "differently" than how it is on the road... if you can replicate the road-loading (ie, don't strap the subframe, for example) and see if that noise comes back? Cold weather and rear-seat loading seems to be the key... if you can replicate that on the dyno, it would help.

LittleBlueGT - thanks for the clear ID there... I'll check it out. mccorry - Quite true. For me, in slightly warmer weather, it would be worse when the car is loaded up with people (lunch trips during work days, for example, when there are 4+me in the car.) In colder weather (such as the 20-30F we've been having here near Boston) it happens pretty much all the time. Granted, I'm not shy about using the throttle... but it concerns me, so I back off if possible (damn those short highway onramps). Unclemat (and Subietonic) - excellent point, and a simple test. I do have STI springs and JDM Bilsteins, so that makes sense. I'll have to give that a shot. Is there a torque spec on those bolts for when I retighten them? Maybe I'll take a photo of the bushing to see what it looks like before/after... it's gotta warm up a bit more before I do this though - it's friggen cold out there!

Holy crap... excellent writeup. I hope I don't ever have to do this. One thing I'd consider is adding some heating elements on the side-bolsters, at least on the seat... those don't get warmed!

Yeah, the gooping and the 2-days of no driving puts a crimp in that method... seeing that this is my daily driver and only car. When the weather warms up, I suppose I could run on the bike when the car is "curing"... still, I'd prefer an "insert style" device. Do you have a good picture of the bushing/part that we're supposed to attack? (Is it in my picture, by chance?)

Ok, so the rear bushing seems to be the key here... has this changed for newer vehicles, versus older ones? (I see unclemat showed a photo of the SpecB having a "filled in" version... I wonder if this is used on all newer vehicles?) SeeeYa: Your particular fix was to "fill in" the spaces within the bushing? Did anyone find an aftermarket method for performing this, other than simply filling it manually, as SeeeYa did? (ie, any bolt-in poly-insert thing?)

For future reference, here's a link to the post with unclemat's pics on it: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2207450&postcount=658 Had to put the rear wheels on ramps to get a good view of the area. That said, here is the best picture that I took of that area (click to view larger): http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/24/921208/LGTRearSubframe_thumb.jpg The pic is taken from behind the rear driver-side wheel (visible in the photo). If you look at the sway bar mount, you can easily identify the sway bar. If my car had the brace, then I would expect to find it just "behind" the sway bar in the photo, and it would mount to the bolt to the right of the sway-bar mount... which is the rear bolt on the subframe. Am I seeing this all correctly? Based on this photo, I'd say I DON'T have the brace on my car...

PM sent... let us know what you find!

unclemat - As one of the 06 owners experiencing this noise (all the time on these cold New England days!)... I revisited your post #658. Am I to understand that if I look for the extra bracing on my car (PN 20157B) and find it, that maybe this explains the noise on my 06? As you can see, I'm a little slow on the uptake here... didn't notice these differences were mentioned in your post. I guess I assumed that as an 06 owner, I would not have this brace... but I suppose it's possible?

His post here http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1830889&mode=linear#post1830889 indicates that he calls it a "vibration". (Of course, he doesn't mention he's SpecB there, or within his info.) I would agree, mine sounds more like a vibration than a growl... it's not as "smooth" as a growl... you can hear the "spaces" between the "events" rather clearly. (Implying that a "growl" has little or no "space" between the noise "events".) In other words, it sounds more like a high-rate clattering or metal-to-metal noise... hence why my mechanic theorized the subframe was the culprit... though the "#13, Rear arm front bushing" described by SeeYa in his schematic is certainly another possibility, as mentioned before.

Doh... maybe I misread... I thought it was saying 1 of 2 MY06 owners... not specB owners. Bottom line, no I am not SpecB... but I do have the growl on my 06 LGT. I'm going to be getting some high-density rubber pads, about 1/4" thick, and will see if I have the inclination to install them on the subframe mounts during this cold winter weather. I have 2 weeks off from work for the holidays, so I might have an opportunity... we'll see. In the meantime, I'll keep checking in on this post, hoping someone else has more initiative than I do!

I assume I'm the "one of two 06"? If not, then I should be #2 of 3...

I assume that the "suspension piece we shall not name" is the one I mentioned - the ones on the subframe. Based on the drawing linked by SeeYa, the bushings I am concerned with are the ones that are part of #21, located within its 4 corners, just under the item #24 spacer for the Outbacks... As for the potential suggestion here with item 13 could potentially cause this noise as well, I suppose... but I have to say that a twisting subframe seems more likely to me. Either way, as long as it gets solved, I'll be happy! I look forward to the results from other people's experimentation

Exactly... if we can test to see that this is where the problem is, then we can engineer a better solution. I suggested the rubber pad idea, but a fixed-bolt idea might be another way too... barring the NVH issues. I certainly would not want the higher noise on my car, so buying and then not-using those bolts makes no sense for my application, but if anyone wants to test it that way, it would certainly provide a valid point of info. Any takers on the experiment?

I have found that it seems to be aggravated by cold temps, heavier loading (when i have many passengers), higher power output from most of our upgrades, and age of the bushings. I took a look at the back of the car with a very good mechanic friend of mine. After looking a little closer, he pointed out how the rear suspension is on a sub-frame, which is rubber-mounted to the unibody in 4 places (2 front, 2 back). He thinks that the higher power output is causing the subframe to twist enough to bottom out. He suggested that we may consider unbolting the front mount points and inserting a cut-sheet of rubber between the body mounts and the subframe to see if that helps at all. So, all the suspension mods we have seen so far which keep the subframe from twisting left-right will probably not help... which would explain why many people who have tried them have not had much success?

A few more notes on the topic: 1) Bigger brakes do not stop the car any faster. They may give you better pedal feel, and allow you to brake "better", and they will help reduce fade on heavy usage (ie, REAL racing, not street-racing). But a bigger brake doesn't slow the car any better than a stock brake (assuming you can lock up the wheels with the stockers, which most cars can do). Reference this excellent article: http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.html 2) Drilled rotors crack under heavy loads, so they are certainly not ideal for performance applications. Again, this article discusses this in a little more detail: http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html Many quality vendors of slotted and drilled rotors will even tell you that they don't recommend drilled ones for track use. 3) Often, people say that performance vehicles use drilled rotors for performance reasons. Well, I happened to notice a blurb on brakes during the last F1 race I watched, and saw what they use on F1 cars: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/24/921208/F1%20Brake%20Rotor2.jpg Notice no slots, and no drilled holes. Sure, these are crazy expensive "carbon" rotors (as he described them)... but the point remains... they don't use slots OR drilled holes. In fact, they talked about how small these rotors are, and how they use the special materials to manage the heat aspect of the heavy braking they do on the track. (I have the entire ~1.5 minute segment, if anyone is interested in seeing it...) In fact, look at it this way - if you want better braking, you want more pad-to-rotor contact. More holes and slots reduce this contact, and hence reduce braking performance. Sure, you can make up for the difference with a larger rotor, but this isn't the logical line of thinking that most people take up... and it simply reinforces the point that these features don't increase braking performance. I reserve judgement on the slotted rotor question, though I suspect that a quality pad will eliminate the need for that feature as well. But, at least it's not as bad and dangerous as a drilled rotor. As for the "bounty" on the cast-in Porsche rotor... this has been covered many times, but I will admit I don't have a reliable (ie, non-internet-post based) source for this. I'm still looking, though.

Yes - check out the top of the Performance walkthtough forum, or simply click here: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35066

Ditto - never seen that issue on my mod.

Silver LGT Sedan (just like mine!) on 128 south near Beverly, Ma, about 8am today. We pulled up next to each other and gave a nod

I never said where in MA, did I? How silly of me - Gloucester...

After 10 years in MA, I guess I can't call myself a transplant anymore, can I? Do I HAVE to be a Mass-hole?

I don't mind the auto mode at all, really... it generally works well, particularly when it's cold outside. However, I usually go to partial-auto by disabling the A/C completely in the winter (unless I need defogging, of course). However, one little quirk that I have noticed now that it's warmer outside. The interior will be warmer than 70, with the dials set at 70. Outside is around 50. In this partial-auto mode, the controller is so dumb that it thinks to turn on the A/C and recirc mode. Except, that the A/C has been disabled (hence partial auto)... so the car sits there, fans blasting, under recirc... when it could just leave it on vent and cool the car down with the cooler outside air. Now that has to be a bug in the system programming... and pretty glaring one at that! Yeah, I know, I can put it to vent mode myself (and make it another step "more partial-auto"... but the point is, I shouldn't have to. It should know the A/C is off, so it should just default to pulling in outside (presumably cooler) air. Ideally, it should check the outside temperature (or check the temp of the air its blowing) and decide from there... but it doesn't. Pretty lame, if you ask me.

Finally installed mine (4 months after buying it!) and it was an easy installation. Another complement for the wonderful instructions. Jazzy: One thing to note, on my 06 LGT, there were actually 6 screws holding the CD player in the radio (behind the front panel). I have a picture of it, if you are interested... but it's not a big deal.