eles1

Ok i guess i wasnt clear........ our local group mets up at Buschers shop & get dyno tuned by Tim. ive been there multiple times with the guys......

 

also if u are just stage one......... it might not be cost effictive to get tuned

I see now...

he is one of the tuners & he always comes out for our local group.

 

u can still get a custom tune, but with having it on the AP. so u get tuned & he puts it on ur ap for u thats why u shouldnt get rid of it if u have it.......... u understanding

 

i would nit get tuned by Al from dynoflash. it was a good tune. just can never get a hold of him

Is this a "road tune"? Because I really think I would prefer a dyno tune, and as far as I know, Buscher has the only AWD dyno around...

Maybe I'll just have my AP updated and go back to Cobb's stage 1 programming...

eles1- if u have the accessport already i would say ship it back to cobb & get it updated.

 

why i say this? is Tim from PDX comes in to town..... which seems to be more & more. at a very good price(which would probably be more for ecutek) he can custom tune & store it on the accessprot so u can still switch back & forth.

Who is Tim from PDX?

If I unload my AP, I would probably go with a custom dyno-tune from the guys at Buscher...

Speaking of dyno-tuning, she'll be back up on the rollers at Buschur's in November, at the next PDXTuning tuning day.

Yeah. I'm trying to decide if I should keep my AP or sell it and go with a custom tune. Since my AP won't work with my new ECU (cooling fan issue) unless I return it to Cobb for an update, now may be a good time to switch...

Hey bro!

 

NP - It's hard to navigate a new Forum, but heck, it looks like you've definitely got the hang of it!

 

LERSOC is the Lake Erie Regional Subaru Owners Club - great and friendly bunch of people that spans just about all models of Scoobys (although it's definitely got a heavier trend towards, understandably, WRX/STi/STIs), and sees everyone from dyno-queens to street-racers to AutoXers and road-racers. It'll take a couple of days for your account to get activated by the Admin there, but it'll get done.

 

Thanks for your compliments, but truly, my level of modification is very, very mild compared to many.

 

I did post a thread there that detailed a bit more about my current mods - http://www.lersoc.com/index.php?name=pnphpbb2&file=viewtopic&t=7755 - but 'till you get a chance to log-in there, here's a quick run-down:

 

Aesthetically, aside from my headlamps being re-worked a bit (cleared ambers, CCFL DDEs, painted streaks), the only other thing that sets me off are my super-rice-pimpy JDM "STi" tags.

 

In terms of the interior, with the exception of MOMO floor-mats/grids, e-brake handle, and shift-knob, it's honestly just a bunch of extra gauges and other electronic goodies - otherwise, it's all stock. Heck, even my stereo system is all-stock. Of course, there's also the "baby-seat and mirror" mod, too!

 

Suspension/brakes related, I'm riding on 18x8" Prodrive PFF-7s w/Fuzion ZRis - these were a hand-me-down set that I bought off a LERSOC brother for quite a nice price. In the braking department, the fronts are a set of Rotora 330x24 1-piece rotors, cross-drilled and slotted for that extra bling (I don't race, so I have little durability concern) mated to their 4-pot clampers. Out rear, there's a set of stock-sized rotors, also cross-drilled and slotted Rotoras, to match. I have iON Sport-Spec springs that are coming to me any day now, and will likely install them in July. I've been contemplating front and/or rear sways, but I'm honestly still trying to get to know the car's behavior a bit better, and am thus hesitant to mess with this area.

 

Go-wise, I am almost completely Crucial under-hood. Crucial Up-Pipe and "shorty" Down-Pipe, paired with Crucial port, polished, and thermal-coated stock manifolds and a Crucial coated Injen cross-pipe. A Perrin Short-Ram handles intake duties, and on the exhaust side, after the stock third cat, I'm using a custom 3" "mid-pipe" with a Magnaflow resonator, going to a Lachute Y, with a pair of Blitz Nur-Spec Touring canisters.

 

The ECU-tune is by Al of Dynoflash, via ECUTek. On Buschur Racing's Mustang dyno, my vehicle, as well as brother GTsleeper's, which are of comparable states of mechanical and software tune, are netting about 15 to 20 wHP north of stock STi/STIs. I think that my exhaust and manifold/cross-pipe mods may be giving me a little more now, especially up-top, but my tune was done previous to these changes, and I'll need to get it optimized again. I think that after I get an aftermarket TMIC and BOV, I will most likely return for a re-tune.

:lol:

That's quite a mod list you've got there Allen!!

I seem to remember someone saying not too long ago that he was only planning to change UP/DP and maybe dyno tune his new ride...

According to the service guy at Timmons Subaru in Long Beach, they aren't sure why this problem occurs. He's only had a couple of people come to him with it. He said that because the radio is made my another company they find it easier to just replace the radio with no questions asked.

Great... They replace it with another one just like it. Nice troubleshooting Subaru...

Hey "my locals"

 

U guys thinking of going to Norwalk this weekend? I would like to get a few pass down the track. Just to see what it can do. 4 my own sake. Racing, different cars, party. Let a bro-know.

Not this weekend - too many other things going on... Maybe sometime in the near future. We should get a small group together and head out sometime.

NP brotha.

 

The Buschur crew did mention this time that just getting in pulls would be welcome, too. I believe that they'd tentatively set the price at $75 for 3 pulls.

Yeah, I thought about that. It would be very useful to see what a 100% stock LGT pulls on that dyno, but I don't know if I want to spend 75 bucks on it. It would probably be worth it...

^^Thanks for the info Allen!!

I tried to catch him and swat him with my cane, but he just ran too fast! Nest time, I'll pull out my electric scooter.

Too funny

Hey bro,

 

I think that the raw numbers were quite a bit lower than what *anyone* expected that day. The unofficial LERSOC poll, even before hearing baseline, was around 240-250 wHP.

 

I, myself, though, went in with almost no expectations, either way. Very Bushido, don't you think?!

 

The stock MR certainly surprised all of us.....

Yeah, sounds like their dyno was pulling about 10-20 whp lower than some others I've seen. That's okay since you did the smart thing - taking a baseline pull. You can still see the gains you made and they were significant. I wonder of the UP/DP was helping out at all without the EM on the baseline?? I would suspect not a lot...

By the way, were those raw numbers or SAE corrected? If they were raw, what were the corrected values??

I'll get my graphs up ASAP, but I need to take a couple of pix of them. Will try either tonight or tomorrow night, and I apologize for the delay.

Sorry:redface: , I'm just anxious to see them. I'll watch the "turbo powertrains" forum the next couple of days. I would assume that's where you'll be posting them?

Al played around quite a bit, I think my max boost, at one point, pegged about 18-19. Apparently, she started leaning-out somewhat at around 17 psi, so we all decided it was best to back her off, considering what my personal goals were.

That's interesting. My AP stage1 map peaks up around 16+ psi on a regular basis. I run the stock map most of the time. I think I'll keep it that way until I can get a chance to do some significant data logging. Who knows, maybe I'll sell the AP and go with a custom tune.

BTW, the most funny part of the day was after I had told the MR's owner that Winky is my "old man car," seeing that it definitely was among one of the more "mature" cars there - the fun happened when his friend, who hadn't been listening all that much, later turned to me and said, in all seriousness:

 

"So, that's your old man's ride?"

 

:lol:

That's hilarious!! We were just talking about that on LERSOC a couple weeks ago.

If he would've said that to me, I would have beat his little punk-ass with my walker!!

I was a little disappointed in this:

Winky baselined at appx. 191 and 205 wHP/wTQ, with the Crucial UP/DP plus Perrin Short Ram intake.

Until I read this:

however, right after my runs, an Evo MR stepped up for its reflash, and, stock, put down only appx. 200 wHP and wTQ.

Very cool

Final tune w/ECUTek reflash was appx. 215 (5750 RPM) and 225 (4500 RPM), respectively, at 15 psi boost.

Any reason they didn't shoot for 16-16.5 psi? I think that's what Cobb AP maps target for both stage1 and stage2 boost. Was the 15 psi your request or was that all the further they wanted to push it? Is 16 psi too high in their opinion??

Any dyno-graphs??

Hey bro,

 

All other slots were filled - it's a LERSOC/Evo combined day, and I think the final tally was 3 Scoobys (including me; the other two were WRXs), with the rest of the slots taken up by Evos. Understandable, I think, given that the DynoFlash guys are much better known in the Evo crowd.

 

I know they're also doing a few tunes on Friday evening, but I think those slots are filled as well.

 

Not sure, though, what they'd do about guys who just want to jump on the dyno and get a few quick numbers. Give Jarrod a call at the Buschur main number, he should be able to tell you what's up.

 

I'm UP/DP'ed already - Rog swung by and helped a great deal, and Matt put his hand in for the TMIC re-install and was a "consultant" during the following penetrating-solution "smoking." Brett (bah14, from LERSOC) also stopped by to shoot the shit a bit. The heat-shields are now also back on, after re-tightening of all bolts (no leaks) this past Tuesday.

 

Not looking to get huge numbers - after all, it's only an UP/DP plus an intake, on the stock turbo and TMIC and all. Just looking for some extra everyday fun, and better overall driveability, which seems to be what the DynoFlash guys are about on their more conservative tunes.

 

Cool. If you would, post the numbers here or on LERSOC (or both) once you get them. I'd be interested to see what a custom tune could do with those mods vs. AP stage 2. I still have mixed feelings about my AP...

i live in brookpark, if u ever need anything simple or not give a email. the word at the house is that i work on cars for a living?! what crap, they dont know what i do from 8-6? oh the lady said she saw a black LGT, no wing in brecksville area. anyone on here own?

Nice car

Swing on down to Buschur's in Wakeman this Saturday if you have time...Winky's getting ECUTek'ed by the guys from DynoFlash. eles1 and anybody else, you're invited, too, of course! Winky goes on the rollers at 10AM

Did they ever fill up the other time slots they had set aside for LERSOC members? There were still a bunch open last time I checked...

I was thinking about having some pulls done (no tuning) just to see what my AP stage 1 is doing for me but I think I'll probably have to go out of town this weekend (seems to be happening a lot, lately).

I think you'll enjoy the new EM Are you adding UP and/or DP as well??

This seems like a fine place for a first post.

 

I just tonight picked up my ABP '05 GT Ltd. 5-spd wagon -- the car I've been dreaming of for quite some time, and I thought I'd never get.

 

I got it from Halpert in Painesville, but it came from Byers in Columbus. It was the last one of its kind in 21 states.

 

I live in N. Royalton; I grew up in Beachwood.

 

I bought mine from Gary @ Halpert. Nice, small dealership. What made you decide to make the trip all the way out to Painesville from North Royalton to buy at Halpert?? Availability??

UPDATE: 1:20 PM, 9/12, westbound Mayfield Rd. by Hillcrest hospital in Mayfield Heights, Ohio. RBP "05 LGT sedan, winged.

 

----------------------------------------

 

 

eles1 -

 

Hey bro, did I see you?

 

W-bound Mayfield, over by Hillcrest. You were in the curb lane, on your cell.

 

You didn't see me at all, I was in the wifey's '05 CGM factory-winged Rex sedan, E-bound, inside lane. I barely spotted you out of the corner of my eye, and passed-by going the opposite way, so I didn't see the point in honking/flashing.

 

If that was you, just wanted to say "hi!"

I don't think so... I wasn't in that area and I almost never use the phone while driving. Must be another RBP in town!! I saw a de-badged one just like mine a few days ago on I-90 headed east to Mentor. If the one you saw didn't have badges, that may have been him...

I have tried to go from like 1.5k rpm to 3.5k rpm really slowly in 2nd gear, to see if I can get it to studder under "light" acceleration,

Try "moderate" acceleration, not light, not heavy. I can best duplicate it by shifting into the next higher gear (most noticeable in 2, 3, and 4 for me) and then depressing the accelerator at a fairly rapid pace after you get the engine to 2000 - 2500 rpm. That does it for me almost everytime. I also notice it more when the weather is hot and humid and I have the AC on.

I wouldn't say that, there are a number of posts of "it gets better, but not gone" Count me in that category. This is a computer problem, not a combustion problem. The problem is so much more complicated that it's running rich/lean.

+1.

I would also like to point out that when A/F ratios are at their richest (WOT), the stuttering is typically not present. This is true on stock tuning or aftermarket tuning.

If A/F ratio too rich was the problem, the stuttering should be at its worst during WOT runs when A/F ratios are at their lowest values. That's completely opposite from what actually happens.

Couldnt' resist... , Now I'm done for real!!

I'd prefer to not bicker further in this thread... it contains a lot of good information that shouldn't be diluted with our little "side topic".

dark_rex,

I would be happy to continue our discussion via PM or a separate thread, if you like. I meant to suggest this earlier, but human nature won out and got the better of me...

Thanks.

aluminum only starts to soften at 1600 degrees. it would have to be significantly hotter for it to actually combust. i'm sorry, "at high temperatures" may be right, but very unlikey in your subaru. you will certainly kill the engine long before aluminum angine parts actually burn. as i said, when they heat up, they can become more brittle and pit, chip, or crack.

 

 

 

SIMPLY FALSE? Maybe you should check all the links i've posted below proving you wrong. period! lol

 

 

 

 

Seriously, are you just making this up as you go along? richer?

 

 

stock dyno run.

9.5:1 AFR from 3500rpms to redline.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8578

 

 

final protuned dyno run

13:1 AFR falling to 11.5:1 at redline.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13324&highlight=dyno+charts

 

Stage I AFRs

about 2 points leaner again.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13405&highlight=dyno+charts

 

Dan at Mach IV

with his maps leaning out 2 pts to 11:1

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8604&page=3&pp=10&highlight=dyno+chart+graph

 

would you call going from 9:1 to 11:1 richer? haha.

 

back on topic, as i said, it looks like the people with aftermarket maps are not having studdering problems, so it seems likely the rich stock condition is being remedied with the aftermarket ECUs, and fixing the studder.

 

dR

Wow. You're very persistent, even though your maturity level is rapidly declining.

Aluminum will burn in an oxygen rich atmosphere at temps much lower than its normal ignition point, and temps WAAYYY above 1600°F are very common within the combustion chamber itself. As I said, I've seen it first-hand in both nitrous and FI engines. Perhaps I was dreaming...

As far as A/F ratios go, I've datalogged my Subaru when stock and most of the time the A/F ratio stayed right between 11:1 and 12:1, very close to what it runs @ stage 1. I guess I'm dreaming that as well . Have you ever actually datalogged your car to see what it's doing??

Cobb's stage 1 A/F ratios are between 10.8:1 and 11.2:1, which are comparable to what I've been seeing when I datalog

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/images/ap-lgt-stage1.gif

Amazing how they can get the extra power without leaning the A/F ratios. In any event, it's not near the 14.1:1 that you suggested earlier. That ratio is getting close to dangerous for an NA car.

Regarding the stock dyno graph you've posted, I don't see the A/F ratio dropping below 10:1 at any point. Am I missing something? There's certainly nothing as low as 9.5:1 on that graph!! It's only down at 10:1 for a couple hundred rpm, at most. The horizontal dotted line it's hovering near for most of the range is 10.5:1, as I read it...

One last thing. I have Cobb Stage 1/91 (v1.10 maps) tuning in my car right now, and I can tell you that it most certainly does not completely address the stuttering issue. Trey himself has posted that the stutter is a complex issue that is more closely related to open/closed loop transitions than anything else. Now tell me I'm imagining that as well.

pistons don't "burn" unless you are running TOO lean, or detonating. they don't actually burn though. running too lean risks high egts, preignition and/or detonation which could lead to broken ring lands, crowns, pitting, burnt valves, etc. nothign actually "burns"

Not to get in an argument, but you're wrong. Aluminum most certainly will undergo rapid oxidation (combustion) at high temperatures in an oxygen-rich atmosphere. Steel will also burn under those conditions - but it takes slightly higher temps. Probably not the only failure mode of a poorly tuned FI engine, but a very possible one. I've seen it first-hand...

In most cases, the A/F ratios after tuning are very nearly the same as before tuning. The idea that aftermarket tuners are increasing this, or any other, engine's output by leaning out the A/F ratio is simply false (this was your original contention). The increase in power comes from increased boost and the increased fuel delivery to support it. Period. They may tweak or slightly adjust the A/F, but the power to be gained there is minimal.

"independantly" of the fuelling to achieve target a/f (14:1 or whatever) which inherently is a more efficeint, powerful mix.

14:1 is WAY too lean for an FI engine at WOT. Cobb's tuning is more in the 11:1 range - probably not too far off of Subaru's stock A/F values, maybe even a bit richer. If you don't believe me, check Cobb's website and see for yourself.

I'm jealous, bro! I haven't seen *_anyone!_*

 

I'll be out in your neck of the woods tomorrow at 2PM., E305th and Lakeland - the BP station. A couple of other guys from LERSOC and myself are getting together to swap/buy some parts from each other.

 

 

And yes, Jamie, you can consider this an invite, although I'd definitely say that we won't be doing anything special, and it's not gonna be a prolonged "meet" as one of us three has to be somewhere at 2:30.

 

-A

Dammit!! I went out of town this weekend and just got back an hour ago!! You guys were only a few miles from where I live...

Let me know when you're setting something else up and I'll drop by. I tried to join LERSOC, but I couldn't get my registration to work for some reason.

I know of at least one Regal Blue Pearl GT sedan that can be seen around the east side suburbs on occasion

A guy that I work with bought a black GT sedan a few months after I bought mine. I think he lives in Mentor.

I also see another black GT sedan every so often while I'm driving to work. I see him pulling into Progressive on Rt. 91 in the mornings.

^^^^

Great news!!! Thanks for the update!