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I'm pretty sure my FLAPS can get most pads available... but for whatever reason, they couldn't get WRX or H6 calipers

 

Amusing story: Since my local shop could not get these calipers, last week I called a local NAPA shop, as well as the Subaru dealership, to get quotes. NAPA told me US$76.99 for rebuilt WRX front calipers, with a US$55 core charge (BTW, can I exchange my LGT calipers for core on WRX remans, or must they be from the same model?) When I called the dealership, I was surprised at how affordably priced the brand new WRX front calipers were: US$94.95/each, would be in stock in a few days if I ordered them. I thought about it for the day, did more research (was trying to determine what EXACTLY I needed for the H6 caliper conversion). Late in the day Friday I called the dealership back to place the order and the polite dealership parts salesman took my credit card info, and was about to pass my call along to the billing lady, when I stopped him and asked about H6 rear calipers, which I did not get quoted earlier in the day. He said, "Looks like they are about $20 dollars cheaper than the fronts you're ordering now, $276.99." My brain immediately came to a screeching halt. "Wait... what?? A pair??" "No, that is per caliper." "Hold on here..." and polite and somewhat bemused disagreement over the price I was quoted for the WRX calipers ensued for a minute, which turned out to be NOT $94.95, as I had written when I took notes during the first phone call - the actual price was US$296.95 per caliper, plus sales tax. Needless to say, I did not order calipers from the dealership on Friday

 

So now, I need to decide how to proceed, such that I can round up all the parts I will need. Options are:

[A] Do nothing. (Bzzt! Wrong answer. I cannot do nothing with a seized caliper.)

Round up used calipers and rotors for the upgrade, via craigslist, etc. (Not really my first choice, but I suppose that is part of the original spirit behind the WRX/H6 Brake Upgrade: bigger brakes for CHEAP).

[C] Use a combination of used calipers and/or brackets, along with NEW performance Pads and Rotors, plus the SS lines I've already purchased.

[D] Use a combination of remanufactured calipers/brackets along with NEW performance Pads and Rotors, plus the SS lines I've already purchased (this is probably my favored option because the brakes would be essentially "all new on a budget" from lines to rotors, but questions remain: Which "brands" of remanned calipers are to be trusted? Will my LGT calipers qualify as cores? What if my kite wiiiinds around a power line? oops, not that question )

Okay so if I were to use the H6 rear calipers. The factory brake lines would work without upgrade or is that for the WRX rear calipers? And wouldn't the H6 Rear calipers be better then the rear WRX calipers?

 

Thanks. This is really helping clear things up for me.

 

I would love to know the best answers to these questions as well. I'm not yet sure.

subscribed! Gonna need brakes eventually....don't forget about e-brake cables and such to make sure they will work with the new rear brakes...

 

Thanks for the input, that is an excellent point. According to this link http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html it should be a straight swap:

INTERNAL REAR HAND/PARKING BRAKE

 

All USDM Subarus with rear discs since 1990 have utilized an internal drum rear hand/parking brake of 170mm in diameter. The rear drive assembly used on the AWD versions of these cars is designated as R160.

 

Some recent, JDM and abroad, WRX-Sti and Impreza models have come equipped with a larger rear drive assembly designated as the R180. I am positive these assemblies have been available since 2001, but may have been available back to 1997. Along with this larger rear assembly, these cars came equipped with vented rotors of either 290 or 316 mm utilizing an internal rear drum hand/parking brake 190mm in diameter.

The upgrades you mentioned, need a 16" rim to clear calipers.

Got lazy and didn't look up stock size for 98 GT.

Hawk HPS pads or similar, will give you more bite and stopping power. Very little difference in cost vs oem. @$95 for front and $80 for rear. If you have local speed shop, they should be able to get it to you for the same price,. Any help to local businesse are a plus.

 

O.

 

16" stock LGT "Snowflakes" should fit, I see them on 3rd-gen LGTs already.

Zues Marine also suggested a pad upgrade for H6 rear brakes in the sticky, EBC Greenstuff. I'm pretty sure my FLAPS can get most pads available... but for whatever reason, they couldn't get WRX or H6 calipers

So I am still trying to figure this out as well. So what did you come up with?

 

Is it:

 

H6 Rear Caliper Brackets

H6 Rear Rotors

Stock Caliper? WRX caliper? or H6 caliper?

And what brake lines?

 

I got lost at which calipers to use for the rear. I always thought it was everything "H6" (Caliper. Bracket, Rotors, Pads)

 

Well, fortunately, I haven't given my "final answer" yet but for the H6 Rear Brake Conversion on a 2nd-gen LGT or Legacy already equipped with rear disks, I believe the following items are required:

 

[A] 16" Wheels (the stock LGT "Snowflakes" are 16-inch but I have not verified for myself that there will be no fitment issues with the upgraded size brakes. I have seen plenty of 3rd-gen 2000-2004 LGT's running around on factory Snowflakes, and this is the car from which the upgraded brakes come from, so I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear here).

Removal of the factory rear brake dust shield (the larger H6 rotors will not fit with this affixed).

[C] H6 Rear Rotors (11.4" rear disk rotors from any 2000-2004 Legacy/LGT/Outback equipped with rear disks, does not have to be an H6 specifically, ALL rear disks were this size).

[D] H6 Rear Caliper Brackets (this is the magic part that allows the H6 conversion to happen so easily, because it fits on the rear knuckle of the 2nd-gen LGT without modification).

[E] ~2000-2004 Rear Calipers (this is one area I am still a little fuzzy on, but according to this link http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html you cannot use your "old-style" 2nd-gen rear calipers in this conversion, you must update to "new-style" calipers. From this link http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14909 a 2nd-gen LGT driver swapped to fully-loaded 2004 Legacy Calipers, apparently without mounting problems or brake line fitment issues. 2002-2004 USDM WRX owners have been doing this conversion as well, but in their case they get to re-use their existing "newer-style" WRX calipers by mounting them to H6 caliper brackets. However, WRX owners have also had to deal with a MY~2004+ caliper change that complicated getting the correct rear pads, see here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=543512 Therefore, I would like to know what is the "best" rear caliper to use for H6 conversion on a 2nd-gen LGT, taking into account Price, Performance, Fitment, Availability, and Compatibility & Selection of Pads. More info from http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html :

The single pot rear calipers can further be divided into either “older” or newer” style. The actual phasing from “older” to “newer” style caliper varied by model. For Imprezas and Foresters, this seemed to occur during MY98. For Legacys and OBs, the “newer” style calipers appeared on MY00 cars.

[F] Pads, which need to matched to the rear caliper/bracket combo. (If you were to use complete 2000-2004 Legacy rear calipers/brackets, the choice is easy - use 2000-2004 Legacy rear pads... but is this ideal? I dunno, I've read that slection of 3rd-gen Legacy parts is not so great, but maybe finding performance brake pads is not a big deal. OTOH, a "Hybrid" (or maybe "Frankenstein" ) Rear Brake consisting of an H6 rear rotor, H6 rear caliper bracket, and WRX rear caliper would maybe open up a world of choices for performance pads... but that choice of pads would be dependant on whether you would be using pre- or post MY2004 WRX calipers. OR, could it be that all 2000-2003 rear calipers are that same (minus calipers brackets, I'm just talking about the "squeezers" here) regardless of model - Legacy, WRX, etc?

Great work. Keep us posted with all the goodies you're doing. I'm waiting for the fans to come in the mail for my 97 gt wagon. Looking forward to getting the car back up and ruining. I'm tired of driving my old volvo.

 

Thanks, I'm also looking forward to getting this car to daily driver status for my wife very soon. We've had the car about two months now and have only put on about 10 miles due to it constantly being under the knife

 

Brake upgrades will be posted in this new thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2nd-gen-lgt-brake-upgrades-wrx-front-and-h6-rear-154702.html?p=3257443#post3257443

Before we start, make sure you've read the Sticky http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/second-gen-aftermarket-parts-and-upgrade-guide-147261.html

Thanks, Zues Marine, Baddog, Frogg, subikid90, and everyone who has kindly provided valuable answers!

 

For those who are unfamiliar with these brake upgrades, I bring you the following link on the WRX front brake conversion:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bk-wagon-brakes-151516.html

 

...and these links on the "H6" rear brake conversion:

http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html

http://wrxinfo.com/how_tos/Brakes/H6brakes.htm

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f94/subaru-legacy-h6-rear-brake-upgrade-5177/

http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14909

 

After taking care of the headgaskets on my wife's newly-acquired '98 LGT 4EAT Wagon (see original thread here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/just-purchased-98-lgt-wagon-coolant-positive-hydrocarbons-151027.html ), it is now time to deal with the brakes.

 

First off, the front driver's side caliper on this USDM LGT Wagon is seized. The car will drive, but the wheel gets hot due to the pads dragging. So this caliper needs changed, no matter what.

 

Second of all, the brakes all around are just generally worse for the wear. Front Passenger side (not seized, but not very pretty, either):

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4456

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4461

I might as well upgrade since I'm going to all this trouble.

 

Thirdly, the brakes are way undersized from the factory, especially for a "GT" car, IMO. I'd like to improve the brakes by upgrading to larger 11.5" 2002-2004 WRX front brakes and 11.4" 2000-2004 "H6" Legacy rear brakes.

 

Fourth, I have already purchased quality Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines to install along with the caliper/pad/rotor changeover. (Due to a miscommunication with my seller, I am still awaiting delivery of the second of the two rear lines, hope to have it early this week). I'll be using ATE Super Blue brake fluid; for years I've been pretty happy with it in my Scirocco 16V, and it is stocked just down the street from me at my Euro/import FLAPS.

 

Fifth, I need to decide whether to go stock or performance with the pads and larger rotors. I am leaning towards performance items if the price difference is marginal.

 

Six - I need to be able to mount the factory spare on the "H6"-converted rear axle in the event of a blowout. From discussion in the sticky thread, it sounds like it shouldn't be a problem, but I have not verified it for myself yet.

 

More to come...

i think u just need the 02-04 wrx rear caliper......not sure if the 98 ones would work...

 

So does this mean it would be better to build a sort of "hybrid" rear H6 caliper setup on a second-gen LGT? In other words:

[A] WRX rear calipers, plus

H6 caliper brackets, plus

[C] H6 rear rotors, plus

[D] any of a variety of WRX rear pads to choose from, thus the advantage of choosing WRX calipers

 

OR

 

...are all the calipers the same no matter WRX or H6, and only the brackets are different? If so, then finding a complete H6 caliper with bracket would seem to be easier than trying to find calipers from a WRX to go along with brackets from H6, if indeed the WRX calipers and H6 calipers are actually the same part.

 

Sorry for all these questions, I'm just trying to wrap my brain around which car came with what part, and which Lego clicks together with what other Lego

Ran the car in the driveway for a good half hour, made sure the lower radiator hose got a little warm, with the temp needle rock steady a bit below the halfway mark. Took the car for a short drive on the highway to get it up to speed (got to romp the gas finally) and it ran like a champ. Lots of 2.5 power!

 

I think I'm calling this headgasket job DONE I'll have to put the car through a "torture test" of hills and twisties with the A/C running to make sure it's really got everything sorted, but I think it is good to go.

 

Next up, BRAKES, big time. The front driver's side wheel got HOT in just a couple miles with that seized caliper, the other side was fine. I'd really like to do a WRX front/H6 rear conversion. Those stock front brakes are tiny (especially for a "GT") IMO.

Elevated! That is how I refilled the coolant yesterday:

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4454

 

I picked up a brand new radiator just to rule things out (I prefilled the transmission cooler lines with some Redline ATF - man that stuff smells bad lol). Same new thermostat that I tested the other day. Same Evans coolant that I drained a few days ago, and my delivery of some more arrived from UPS as I was refilling. It took quite a while to fill the system. With the radiator burp screw open (included with the new radiator, looks like I wasted ten bucks at the dealer a couple weeks ago for a new one), I was filling from the upper radiator hose into the engine water pipe:

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4455

 

Eventually, the radiator became full from this technique, and I reattached the upper hose, and added a few more ounces into the radiator cap opening and overflow bottle. Since I was very careful collecting the coolant I had drained a few days ago, I needed very little from the new delivery of coolant. I then capped the radiator and closed the burp screw to start the engine (otherwise coolant shoots out when the waterpump surges when cranking). With the engine running, I opened the burp screw again and let the car run for awhile to warm up. I occasionally ran up the throttle and A/C to put a little load on, as well as deliberately restarted the car a few times to "surge" out any air pockets that might remain.

 

One thing I noticed while the engine was warming up - with the burp screw on the radiator open, you can look down to see coolant inside where the upped hose comes in, but I didn't see coolant "flowing" by, it was very still. Eventually I closed the burp screw, a little pressure built up in the system, and when I checked later, hot coolant would gush out the hole when the burp screw was loosened... so at that point, either hot coolant was *flowing* through the radiator, or pressure buildup alone was forcing coolant out the hole (or some combination of both).

 

The temp gauge settled in the middle, there was great heat in the cabin, and after at least 20 minutes of idling and light revving, the radiator and lower hose finally became warm, telling me that the thermostat probably opened okay (I don't think that ever happened on prior attempts, certainly not the times when I was checking the lower hose). It took quite awhile, and I was getting concerned when I was seeing the temp gauge in the middle (but the lower hose was still COLD), but eventually I felt relieved about it when I was certain there was flow through the T-stat.

 

Still need to road test it, but I hope I've got this overheat problem licked.

Anybody using (or know of) upgrade/performance pads and rotors for the "H6" conversion (when using fully converted complete H6 rear calipers), or are we limited to stock/OEM options?

...and although they call it "H6" (as in an H6 Outback), it really is the same rear brakes for any 2000-2004 Legacy that was equipped with rear discs. It is explained in one of my quotes in post #175 above.

Yeah I am pretty sure the caliper bracket is there to support the bigger rotor and caliper.

 

I will let someone else chime in. But I am 95% sure you will need to use the new caliper.

 

More research seems to agree with what you say:

http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html

 

REAR CALIPER ATTACHMENT

 

All Subaru rear calipers ultimately bolt to a heavy-steel rear backing plate, which in turn is bolted to the rear knuckle. This backing plate has a thin steel dust shield, appropriately sized for the rotor, spot–welded around its perimeter.

 

1. Subaru single pot rear calipers are sliding type calipers, and utilize a caliper bracket to hold the pads and attach the caliper to the backing plate. This caliper bracket could also be viewed as an adapter, which adapts calipers to different sized rotors and vice versa. The single pot caliper attaches to the caliper bracket and the caliper bracket bolts to the backing plate via 5.75” spaced mounting holes. The single pot rear calipers can further be divided into either “older” or newer” style. The actual phasing from “older” to “newer” style caliper varied by model. For Imprezas and Foresters, this seemed to occur during MY98. For Legacys and OBs, the “newer” style calipers appeared on MY00 cars.

 

UPGRADING THE REAR BRAKES

 

The first thing to do if you want to upgrade is to determine what you have already. Once you have determined that, you can follow the info below to figure what parts you need to get which upgrade. For my purposes I am considering the 266x10mm/single pot rear brake setup (“older” or “newer” style caliper,) the baseline from which to upgrade. If you have rear drums, do a quick search will get you the info needed to prepare for the rear discs options listed here.

 

“H6” upgrade (a misnomer, but nice and short.) Gains: Moving to a larger (290mm) solid rotor yielding moderately better heat dissipation and more angular advantage for the caliper. If you have the “older” style caliper you will need to replace calipers, caliper brackets, pads, and rotors. If you have the “newer” style caliper, you need only replace the caliper brackets and rotors (retaining your calipers and pads.) Regardless of the caliper you’ve got, you will also need to bend or remove the dust shield or replace the entire backing plate (probably not worth the effort.)

 

for how to do the above mod go here:

 

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=814

 

So, will my new stainless brake lines for '98 LGT work with 2000+ Legacy rear calipers?

Part of the upgrade is the caliper no?

 

Hmmmm... that is an interesting point, as none of the "conversions" I read about were second-gen legacies. They were 2002+ WRX's and Foresters. They used the existing calipers with the upgraded brackets.

 

Here is a second-gen Legacy conversion that used a whole caliper swap:

http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14909

 

But this is why I thought I could use my old caliper:

i went with WRX brakes all around, MASSIVE upgrade. the only thing i would do different is go for the H6 rear brake upgrade (just requires a different rear rotor and caliper bracket from the WRX bits)

But I wouldn't mind all-new calipers since I am doing the fronts as well. But I have already invested in stainless brake lines, so I don't want to change anything that would require different brake lines yet again.

Also on the H6/2000+ Legacy Rear Brake upgrade... I use the rotors and caliper carrier/bracket from the 2000+, but NOT the actual caliper, correct? I think I read that the 2000+ calipers use different brake lines? So, even if I wished to freshen up my old rear calipers, I would need to stick with the '98 version?

 

If so, for rear H6/2000+ pads, I would use based on which model?

1998 Legacy (to fit my '98 calipers)?

OR 2000+ pads (to fit the H6/2000+?rotors/carriers)?

OR ???

So, about the "H6" rear brake upgrade (really any 2000+ Leggy/Outback, I understand)...

http://wrxinfo.com/how_tos/Brakes/H6brakes.htm

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f94/subaru-legacy-h6-rear-brake-upgrade-5177/

I won't have to find a different spare tire, right? My existing spare will still fit over the rears, and if I have a front blowout, I move the rear wheel forward, and put the spare on the rear. I think that is what someone has told me here in these forums.

Sweet, sounds like a simple upgrade.

And in this thread, fwa2500 shows photos of the WRX Brake Upgrade setup including hubs, control arms, etc. Are these parts also neccessary?

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bk-wagon-brakes-151516.html

On OpposedForces.com for WRX there is a notation for brackets/carriers for both 15-in. and 16-in. Do I need to ask for something more specific than 2002-2004 WRX?

http://opposedforces.com/parts/impreza/us_g11/type_21/brake_system/front_brake/illustration_1/

Yep, that's what I was talking about as well. Thanks!

Today I drained the coolant and removed the new aftermarket thermostat (I believe it is a Kuzeh) for testing. I placed both this new T-stat as well as the old OEM one in a pot of cold water on the stove, suspended from touching the bottom of the pan, along with a kitchen thermometer. I turned on the heat and watched until they BOTH opened, right about the same time. I believe the new T-stat to be operating correctly... UNLESS cold water from the radiator is enough of a downer to keep it closed when the engine is otherwise hot.

 

I also removed the radiator. I didn't seem to find any internal clogs, as water flowed through it quite easily when backwashed with the garden hose. I noticed that the fins seemed quite dirty, however, even after hosing them down. Just to be sure - and for preventive maintenance - I ordered a new one from my FLAPS, it should be in store tomorrow.

 

Started looking at the brakes in earnest today, seems the front driver's side is seized, as expected. Planning on a WRX 11.4" upgrade with performance pads and rotors.

wrx brake swap question:

 

Do I need anything else besides calipers, rotors and pads? and what yrs?

the caliper brackets are needed to.. any 02-04 will work

"Brackets" otherwise known as "carriers", right? If I were to order all-new WRX upgrade parts for my LGT, I would ask for:

 

2002-2004 WRX 11.4" Front Rotors, Left and Right

2002-2004 WRX 2-piston Front Calipers, Left and Right

2002-2004 WRX Front Brake Pad Carriers, Left and Right

2002-2004 WRX Front Brake Pads, Left and Right

?

Whatever the cause of overheating, I am glad to have done the headgaskets.

 

Yes, my new T-stat could only be installed in the correct orientation. I have more coolant ordered, should be delivered next week. That is one pain in the arse about the coolant I use, there are no longer any local vendors that I know of. I used to be able to pick it up at a Mazda/Rotary racing shop in Portland, but they stopped stocking it due to shipping expenses.

 

Once I have the coolant here, I am going to do the following things:

Drain and collect coolant.

Remove newly-installed T-stat, and temp-check it alongside the old dealer T-stat in a pan of heated water.

Flow-check empty radiator with a water hose.

Replace whatever defective component(s) necessary.

Refill system with front of car elevated.

Check for proper operation.

 

I'd rather keep from adding water to the cooling system if at all possible, it is considered a contaminate when using NPG+

Yes, the inside of the coolant overflow bottle was coated with the same black pasty gunk as seen in the photo of my gloved finger on the previous page. It was throughly cleaned and sparkling before reinstallation after headgasket replacement.

You can see them in a little better detail in the photo gallery here:

http://www.camroncamera.com/p13166574/h3f1b0eee#h3f1b0eee