camroncamera

The rears were Centric; the fronts were NuGeon: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3271083&postcount=62

I'm happy with the upgrade - and I feel it's safer to have all the stopping power I can get... it's my wife's daily driver, after all. I bought the car with a seized caliper, so I never really had it on the road to test the stock setup. This is not the "absolute ultimate brake upgrade" out there, but it can be a great bang-for-the-buck solution. If you have a GT or Outback, and if your front calipers are in good condition, you only need to change the mounting bracket and rotors, and not the front calipers themselves. Saves some $$$ for easy upgrade. If you have an L or Brighton, get genuine Subaru calipers... I don't recommend the cheapy remans like I got. The rear H6 brake upgrade is slightly more involved, but not too bad. The stock discs just seem so small to me, especially the rears. I still intend to install a MC brace at some point.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE those GT-B wheels, wish we could get them in the States! Those are 17" wheels, and *should* clear just about any Subaru brake upgrade. YMMV, don't tale my word as gospel, etc. etc. lol

Cool, let us know how things turn out!

Funny you should ask; the quick answer: They are great to have and I am glad I did it. No problems with the lines coming loose, though shortly after they were first installed I noticed that I was leaking brake fluid at the brake line/caliper connection on one of the rear brakes, even though they were torqued to spec. Tightening them a bit further solved that problem for the next two years. And then... On Monday evening we were meeting up with my wife's family for an early dinner before heading to a Blazers game. During our drive to my sister-in-law's, I noticed an unusual vibration... when we arrive, we notice an awful stink coming from the rear of the car, and it takes all of two seconds to notice that the driver side rear wheel is HOT. Everyone goes into the house, while I limp the car to a nearby Les Schwab tire shop. Fortunately things are pretty slow there, so they were able to have a look right away. They determined that the caliper was sticking. They lubed the mechanism, took it for a short test drive, had another look, and decided that I could get home ok, but that the caliper still was not releasing as much as it should. No charge. So I drove back to the in-laws, and we arranged to ride together to the game in their van after dropping the Subaru back home (which seemed to dive normally on that trip). The Blazers lost. Yesterday I dug out the paperwork on the brake parts purchases, got ahold of the nearby parts shop to arrange a free warranty replacement of the remanufactured caliper, and switched it out (I reused the pads and left the rotor alone). I torqued to spec the line connection to the caliper, and bled the caliper once my wife was home from work to depress the brake pedal while I operated the bleeder valve. Took it for a test drive and everything was performing great. But, once again, the torque spec proved insufficient to keep brake fluid from leaking at the union. I cleaned the leaky fluid and tightened the connection a bit more, but did not test drive it again, as it was quite late. I'll probably take it for a spin later today and check for leaks again after I drop off the old core caliper at the parts shop. The take away: Do this H6 brake upgrade. Use well-made stainless lines, but not cheap ones made overseas. Torque-to-spec your brakes lines to your calipers, using new washers, but check for leaks and expect to tighten a bit further. Use genuine Subaru calipers instead of cheapy remanufactured ones from overseas - this is what burned me. Great info on the issue of genuine vs. reman calipers here: http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-repair-seattle-brake-caliper-woes/ If you absolutely must use remanned calipers, carefully paint them with caliper paint prior to installation, or they will take on a rusty appearance within weeks. Right after I first installed the brakes I saw this video, courtesy of All Wheel Drive Automotive from Seattle: It is possible that certain years WRX rear calipers are a better choice for this application... I have not fully investigated this, but you may find more info here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/why-called-h6-brake-upgradei-185293.html?t=185293

Myself, I've yet to install one, but maybe someone else here who has done it will chime in.

Nameless contacted me yesterday to confirm the length of my rear brakes lines, I figured someone else must have made an inquiry. I suggested to them to make a hybrid rear line for the H6 upgrade: long one-piece line like a Gen-2 Leggy, but with the curly Gen-3 style hard caliper fitting to fit the H6 caliper notch. Good luck! BTW I'm hearing good things about using a master cylinder brace, I want to add one myself. Apparently makes the biggest difference in pedal feel, which is obvious when you see with the naked eye how much movement there is at the master cylinder.

If you haven't done so already, be sure to replace your oil separator plate - the original one is plastic and is probably cracked and the sealant has deteriorated. I've heard that is it common to mistake an oil leak at the rear of the engine for a rear main seal (which very well could be in good condition) when it actually turns out to be a leaky oil separator plate. The revised part is metal and is supposed to have much better longevity.

I think you guys were recognizing my tongue-in-cheek humor , but just in case it is not entirely clear from the photo, my "Premium Subaru Rear Main Seal Installer Special Tool" is exactly what monkeyposeur says - a $2 PVC drain fitting from Home Depot. The diameter was a perfect match for the seal, and several carefully placed whacks with the rubber mallet put it into place pretty well. It is very important *not* to press the seal all the way to the bottom stopping point; it will be too deep and you will leak oil (or so I'm told). The seal must be just slightly above flush with the block.

If I end up getting one I will probably shoots some pics and make a few notes. Here is a recap of Baddog's install back on page 413 of the "What did you do to your 2nd Generation Subaru today?" thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/did-you-do-your-2nd-generation-subaru-todayi-130047p413.html

If your question is for me, I would say pedal feel is "fine", though not tremendously snappy. It still takes a fair amount of pedal effort to clamp things down. Definitely not like my Scirocco lol. The recent discussion about the aftermarket master cylinder brace got me curious enough to examine the master cylinder in operation this morning. Had my wife pump the bake pedal with engine both on and off while I observed the MC, and in both cases the the vacuum booster clearly flexes under the stress, I'd say about 1/8" or so. I may be adding a master cylinder brace to the to-do list.

Glad to hear things worked out for you! I don't have a cool ratchet like yours, but sometimes my breaker bar with the flex head gits-r-done. Or the BFH10K. Too bad my WRX/H6 Upgrade Thread isn't so much a tidy "how-to" instead of the "how-the-F-do-I?" that it ended up, lol.

It's not too hard, you'll need a Phillips screwdriver to remove the sunvisors and forward dome light assembly, and a small, curved prying-implement to get behind the interior trim panels (I used a tack remover like this, since that is what I had handy at the time). You could probably manage with some flathead screwdrivers, but having a tool that has a bend in the end will save you some frustration. Personally, I will be getting a dedicated trim remover set for future projects. You'll also seed some basic needle-nose pliers to grab the plastic tubing to stretch it back over the nipple, a hair dryer to heat up the tubes to give them some stretch, some heavy-duty clear silicone adhesive, and a small zip-tie for each tube to seal and fasten them back into place. Plan on having the project take a few hours, maybe even leave the headliner front corners down overnight to make sure the tubes are securely fastened after the adhesive cures. The next day you can carefully pour water into the drip tray of the sunroof to verify that everything drains correctly. Don't forget to make sure the tubes are clear of old, dried mud and debris, or that the rear drain tubes are still in place (less common for the rear tubes to come disconnected, but I have heard of it happening).

Our LGT wagon has been running great. It is now my wife's daily, and she is very happy with it. No more instances of overheating. I think I still have a leak in the sunroof area, so I will be checking on my earlier repair there - the front passenger footwell is getting soaked again. :/ Just got some new custom Weathertech floor mats. Getting antsy for some warm spring weather so I can buff and polish the paint. Waiting on delivery of the JDM tails from a certain forum member (hi Zeus!) The 4EAT shifts a little rough from 1-2, which I hear is normal, and sometimes under moderate throttle it shifts a little slow from 3-4 (getting on the freeway, etc.). At some point I will be doing a drain-and-fill with some Redline ATF. Seems the reading on the ATF dipstick is somewhat high, even when the tranny is nice and warm. Tranny fluid was regularly serviced by the dealer with the original owners, so I'm not too worried about it yet. Pretty happy with the brake upgrades. We've gotten used to the "pedal feel" I was wondering about a few posts back. Lookatmyrust was absolutely right here... the remanned calipers - even though they were pre-painted by the remanufacturer - are starting to cosmetically rust up. :/

In actuality, the brake caliper piston sizes are exactly the same as stock with this swap. The front WRX 2-piston calipers are identical (except for the taller mounting brackets) to the LGT 2-piston calipers.* The rear H6 1-piston calipers are not identical to the rear LGT 1-piston calipers, but are similar in overall size. I believe the H6 rear pistons are the identically sized as stock, however. It is the rotor size increase that is the primary aspect of the WRX/H6 upgrade. Nonetheless, an improved master cylinder would be a welcome upgrade. *When using MY2002 WRX front calipers, as I did.

Thanks!

I've just checked the service records on my wife's LGT. The original owners had the master cylinder replaced in late '99 under dealer recall, at about 30K. The car now has 110K.

Well, everything makes sense now, LOL. Thanks for looking into it. WESTcoast, would it be okay if I asked you to make a quick edit to your post in the Second Gen. Aftermarket Parts and Upgrade Guide thread to include full H6 rear calipers and brackets in your list of necessary supplies for this rear brake upgrade? Just to keep the information consistent and help avoid confusion for the next guy. I really valued the information you provided in these threads! This is your post: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3259551&postcount=188 Thanks!

I'm think the dealer replaced the master cyl a few years back for the original owners, I will have to review the service records to be sure.

Ya know, I drove the LGT last night to Freddy's, and I think I was making a mountain out of a molehill. The effort to push the brake pedal just isn't that big of a deal. Yes, it is more effort than the Corolla, but if Toyotas are known for touchy brakes, then the Subaru is probably fine. I may re-bleed all fours soon, just to be sure.

So. This "pedal-feel" thing has been bugging me. Keep in mind this is my first Subaru, and that even though I've had it over two months, it's been constantly under the knife. I'd driven it maybe 5 miles total on the original brakes. The pedal feel sucked then, with one seized caliper piston in front. Now that the brakes are ALL-NEW (from fluid, SS lines, calipers, pads, to larger rotors) and that we are starting to dive it regularly, I'm finding that the car stops great, but that there just seems to be so much pedal effort to slow the car down. Is this normal? By comparison, my little Scirocco 16V (also with performance brakes and SS lines) pedal effort and control is very easy. No surprise there. But my wife's 2000 Corolla CE (which our Subaru is intended to replace) is also easy to work the pedal, and stops just fine in normal driving (but also keeping in mind that is is a relatively small car as well). And believe me, there is no chance that our Corolla could be mistaken for a performance car In the end, the brakes on the LGT were installed without haste, and were carefully bled free old brake fluid, and free of air bubbles. This was performed in correct order (Front Right - Rear Left - Front Left - Rear Right) as according to FSM. Engine was off. But after I started the brake swap, I quickly discovered a FAIL in my methodology: I had removed all four old calipers from their brackets, leaving them connected to the original brake lines, and sitting atop jack stands so as not to dangle from said lines. So far so good. Going in FSM bleeding order, I disconnected the old Front Right caliper and rubber brake line, and connected the new Stainless line and new-remanned caliper on the bracket, in position with new pads over the rotor, and began the bleeding process on this brake. With my Dad lending a hand this day, he pumped the brakes and I operated the bleeder screw until I saw clean, new brake fluid, free of air bubbles. I then moved to the second brake, Left Rear. In the midst of repeating the above process, I discovered my Methodology FAIL. Can you guess what it is? I had not had the foresight to block up each old caliper after they had been removed from the brackets. Thus, when the new brakes were being pumped and bled, I blew out two pistons of the two remaining old calipers which had been sitting free on jack stands (but still connected to the original rubber brake lines), leaking plenty of brake fluid on the garage floor, and introducing who-knows-how-much air back up into my brake lines with the release of each brake pedal stroke. D'oh! It was at this point I changed my methodology; I disconnected all the remaining old lines and calipers, installed all the remaining new stuff, and STARTED OVER with the brake bleeding on all four calipers, in FSM order. Trying to be careful, I bled off as much air and I could find, plus "plenty" of clear fluid afterwards. (Is "plenty" enough?) Once everything was buttoned up and the car went out for the first time to break in the bakes, the car stopped great, but I noticed the "pedal effort" that I was hoping would be helped more by the SS lines. I'm wondering if I should re-bleed everything again. Should I be worried that air might have got sucked way up into the lines from the initial bleeding attempt with the blown pistons? OR, is this brake effort totally normal - SS lines and all? Never does the brake pedal go to the floor or anything when braking, it just seems like it takes more effort that maybe it ought to, and the pedal is still a little spongy.

I definitely considered it (even bought caliper paint) but decided that I wouldn't be able to improve the finish over the enamel that came on them already. Looked to be a pretty good coating (definitely not bare metal) so I left them be. If they turn orange in two weeks, well, I can pull 'em off, paint 'em, reinstall 'em and re-bleed 'em

Pads front:$36 Pads rear: $32 EBC Slotted/Dimpled WRX rotors, pair front: $208 EBC Slotted/Dimpled WRX rotors, pair rear: $190 Remanned WRX semi-loaded calipers/brackets, pair front: $130 (minus core) Remanned H6 semi-loaded calipers/brackets, pair rear: $130 (minus core) Brake cleaner, 2 cans min. total: $6 WA 8.2% sales tax on above: $60 ==========Running total: ~$790.00 ATE Super Blue brake fluid (I already had some on hand, but probably $15/can) Nameless Performance DOT-approved SS Brake Lines, set of 4: $110 Final tally ~US$900

For clarification with regards to 2nd-Gen Legacy brake lines on H6 rear calipers: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5571_Edit_01_Text.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5580_Edit_01_Text.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5590_Edit_01_Text.jpg . EDIT 2018/10/30: The caption over the above photos suggests using "H6" style brakes lines, however this would not be possible because I long ago learned that actual Gen-3 Legacy/Outback rear brake lines are 2-piece and very short, IIRC. 2nd-gen Legacy/Impreza rear brake lines are the only realistic solution. I later solved the notch alignment issue by installing Impreza rear calipers on the H6 mounting brackets, instead of the actual Gen-3 Legacy/Outback H6 calipers, as depicted below:

Install: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5539.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5537.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5540.jpg Plenty of clearance on the WRX front calipers with the 16" snowflakes: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5541.jpg Make your life easier, just thread a couple bolts into the old rotor release sockets, and the old rotors will be off in no time. http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5564.jpg Remove the rear dust shield with a 5/16" drill bit through the spot welds (be sure to cover the parking brake mechanism from drill debris on the upper spot welds): http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5573.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5577.jpg When fitted through the brake line notch on the back side of the H6 caliper, the 2nd-gen SS brake lines do not have the proper bend and/or length to reach through the strut mounting tab (nor would the stock rubber lines)... http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5581.jpg ... but by bypassing the notch in the H6 caliper and feeding the lines forward (as they would on the original Legacy caliper) the lines route through the strut support tab and to the hard line fitting just fine. Is there a long-term risk of the banjo fitting working itself loose from the caliper via suspension movement? Let's hope not! http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5590.jpg Space saver spare fits over the H6 rear brake upgrade just fine (but does NOT completely clear the front WRX caliper): http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5589.jpg Wide shot, installed: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5626.jpg Close-ups, upgrades installed and broken in: http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5630.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5633.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5599.jpg http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/camroncamera/IMG_5602.jpg .