ESP Dyno

I know, I know. I don't get out much.

 

I also heard about a new phone. They call them "cordless" and you can walk around the room with no cord! Can't wait to try one.

BTW, if anyone is wondering what to do with your automatic steering wheel I have two words for you: Radio controls! I just installed some for a customer a few weeks ago and had no idea they would bolt in. Best $75 I have spent in a while.

I used an 08 driveline so mechanically lots interchange. But not sure about the wiring differences. I know the clusters and BMCs are different.

Not sure. My Accessport is for the 5EAT car so I wasn't sure if it would still work if I went to the manual ECU or reflashed the ROM to a MT.

 

But honestly, you would not know the car was converted except for the PND321 on the cluster.

 

Total swap cost about $1600 with all the factory stuff. But plan on adding the extra $700 or so for a good clutch and WRX flywheel.

 

If I were to charge a customer for the swap, I would say about a day or slightly more of labor so maybe ~$800 or slightly more in labor to swap it all over.

Car has been running great too. Just have no cruise and the little canbus error on the odometer but I have been just enjoying the car so I am probably going to deal with it for a while. One thing I finally wrapped up today was rewiring the neutral position switch. I used to have it hooked up as it is in the manual ECU diagram however, I found the auto ECU would bump the idle each time I shifted in and out of various gears. I also had a hesitation when shifting as the auto also would do something odd with the ignition timing as the car passed through neutral on a quick shift.

 

I rewired the ground out the neutral position switch to the Ebrake warning light ground. Therefore the car will think it is in neutral w/ the ebrake on when starting (enabling me to keep my remote car starter) but the ECU doesn't see the neutral position when shifting gears. The car runs perfect.

 

Rick,

Did you manage to get the cruise working?

On the timing retard logging, we can see it but from what I understand this is not defined in the AP software to be able to change it.

 

With the TCM connected, I had more problems than it would be worth to get the tranny to think its in Neutral. But, I could certainly try to hook up the the clutch switch and monitor the timing retard at the shifts again. I believe I could also just put 12volts to this pin on the ECU which might serve the same purpose but still let me use my remote starter. In the auto schematic, this pin has voltage all the time as there is no clutch switch to break it.

Finally, got the car squared away on the dyno. The tune did vary quite a bit from when it was an automatic. In fairness, I jumped up a size on the turbo too, so I'm not sure on the top end exactly the reason for the changes, but there were a good amount of changes made to the low load areas of the map. The timing map required some changes down low to improve the surging I was feeling at low RPMs and light load.

 

Also, if I am correct, it would appear the automatic ECU wants to pull a little timing on the shift as a means to save the transmission. It seems to still be doing this a little when I manually shift the car on the road. Trying to see if I we can work this part out.

 

All and all, you would not know the car was originally an automatic, other than the PRND indicator still on the cluster and the lovely up and down arrows on the steering wheel.

 

I'll just have to find a use for these in my spare time, like maybe rewire them into the stereo to control the volume or something

Not sure on the tranny, but the rear diff I used as a donor for my 3.90 gears was out of an early non-turbo legacy. The housing was identical to the WRX housing I used for the LSD unit. So should be good there. I used my turbo 5EAT rear axles.

The p0700 is the tcm error code you get when the tcm is disconnected. It goes away when you disable the code. The P0600 is the can bus error code, with the TCU plugged in my car didn't idle right and felt very jerky.

 

Interesting...This is the phenomena I am experiencing now. Didn't want to read into into it too much until I get it on the dyno. Kinda feel like its down on power too. No other codes in the ECU.

 

I do not have the clutch switch wired in as I am using my automatic car starter. Can only starts in Neutral. It takes a little getting used to, but I figure its better than finding it in my neighbor's yard if I leave it in gear and hit the button.

Yeah, me too.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the CAN transceiver and receiver is in the cluster, correct?

 

Rick, are you still running the auto cluster like me? I wonder if we swapped that out, the CAN system might not look for the TCM.

Rick,

 

I reused my rear axles on the wagon. I removed them and they were exactly the same as the ones I got from the manual car in the salvage yard. Are you sure they were different?

 

I made the cross member slightly different, I'll post a couple pics. The channel is completely overkill but I had it laying around.

 

Also, we are going to throw the car back on the dyno next weekend, but I did notice the car is a little sensative on the shifts. It seems to bog slightly. I am going to see how different the manual and auto maps are...I would imagine it was never really full throttle at low RPMs as the tranny would always downshift.

Yeah, I have it disabled with my AccessPORT which shut off the CEL and the cruise light is not longer blinking, but it still doesn't work. I wonder if the CAN error is screwing with it somehow.

From the info I have found, I think the CAN computer and the immobilizer are in the cluster. Wiring to the cruise control seems to be the same for AT and MT cars. Unfortunately, just to try it out, I think I would need to bring the car in to the dealer to have the cluster setup for the immobilizer.

 

At that point, I think I would end up with other issues as the manual ABS module is different (I have one and plugged it in just to see what happens and I get an ABS light from it that I don't have with the AT one installed).

 

Fun, fun, fun...

My swap if finally done (well sort of)...

 

The mechanical and most of the electrical is complete and the car has been up and running for a week or so. I am hoping to start a new thread with all I have learned. I do still have no cruise and a CANBUS error code but right now I am just enjoying the car.

 

The quick version: Mechanically, the swap was pretty straight forward. All the parts from the donor car went right in. One exception: The automatic car actually has a different reinforcement welded in the tunnel. The manual cross member does not bolt up to it. I used the automatic cross-member and fabbed up an adapter piece to connect it to the rear transmission mount. Otherwise, the manual transmission, shifter, rear end, driveshaft, starter, pedal assembly, master and slave all bolt right in. All mounting provisions are there with plastic plugs in them from the factory. I reused all of my automatic front and rear axles!

 

Electrically, I still have more to do. For now, I am using the automatic ECU and still have the auto cluster installed. I grounded the pin at the ECU to identify it as a manual. I am currently not running the clutch switch, but with the neutral safety switch hooked up, the car needs to be in neutral for the starter to engage. II choose to do it this way as I have an automatic car starter that amazingly still works with this setup. I bypassed the park interlock wiring so I could get the key out of the ignition (kind of important). I also hooked up the reverse lights.

 

With this setup I have the transmission controller unplugged. This sets a error with the can system as it seems to be looking for the module. It shows up on the odometer as "ErrHC" and this sets a P0600 code and causes the cruise light to blink. I shut off the code in the ECU and no more warning lights. Cruise currently does not work and the error on the odometer is still there. Hoping to swap the cluster once I find a manual one to see if that takes care of these last remaining items.

Can you check to see if the front axles look the same for the auto and the manual once you get into the swap? My research says they are the same so I only grabbed the rears. Also, I forgot about the starter too...Thanks.

I have all the parts that I think I will need. Just trying to find the time to do the swap. I bought an 08 LGT 5MT so the final drive ratio is 3.90 vs the 4.10 found in the popular limited slip rear end. So I have a rear diff from an 02 Legacy that has the 3.90 ratio and 04 WRX limited slip rear and I will need to merge the 2 together. I am hoping to get the gears set up other the next week and do the full swap the week after. Car should be up and running for the Wicked Big Meet if all goes as planned. I'll post my findings.

 

Like Rick, if it were just the mechanical swap, it would be done, but I am bracing myself for the fun wiring issues that will follow.

 

BTW, I worked with my rep at Clutchmasters and they have put together a custom Stage 3.5 clutch for me to try out. Supposed to hold more than the Stage 3, but much better engagement than the stage 4. We will see. I am hoping it will be a good option for those looking the mid 300 range at the wheels.

Thought about this. But the only problem is I think the rear axles will be a bear to find. Not many 07 and up Spec B's hanging around the salvage yards Any idea how much the custom axles are?

www.car-part.com

 

But it only gives you about half of what's available according to my salvage yard guy.

 

There are two 05 LGT 5 speeds in RI for $1200 to $1400 with around 50K miles. They have the matching rear diff too. Not sure if they ship.

I am having trouble finding a 3.90 rear with LSD to mate up to this 08 tranny. Someone already grabbed the set for sale on EBAY. This kind of stinks as this tranny is cherry with only 14K miles and I have access to all the other parts I might need to do the conversion. I would prefer the 3.90 over moving to an 05 tranny with the 4.11 rear.

OK,

 

I am trying to pull the trigger to get this rolling. I have sourced a 5MT tranny out of an 08 LGT sedan. Problem number one: The rear diff is gone. I have found another one from an 05 but for some reason my parts locator is giving me a 4.11 ratio on the 05 and a 3.90 ratio for an 08? Can anyone verify this?

 

Also seems the front axles are the same for auto and manuals according to the locator.

Leonardo,

 

Thanks for the links. I am on the fence as to which way to go. The 5 speeds are cheap and I can rebuild them here if I hurt one.

 

And then again, that Spec B setup you found is fairly rare. It would be perfect if it had the LSD front diff.

 

I am running a lightly built motor with a custom rotated Bullseye turbo setup so this is certainly the possibility of grenading the 5 speed.

 

Decisions, decisions.

Its an 05 Wagon. But I need to make to make sure the swap would work before I parted with it.

Very tempting...

 

I was only looking at $2000 for all the 5 speed parts to do the swap.

 

Anyone know what a 5EAT with an IPT valve body and cooler would go for? 60K miles and AMSOIL fluid.

Man, I was hoping I just hadn't searched hard enough:)

 

Well, I have access to an 08 LGT sedan with 14K miles. I could source whatever parts I could use from there but not sure what will be compatible with my 05 wagon. I know the BIU is different for the wagon too. Are there big tranny differences from year to year? I am hoping the clutch, slave, master, pedal box, rear diff, driveshaft and axles would work. Not sure about the cluster, either.

OK, I know the mechanical stuff can be done but the only thing that really concerns me is the wiring. So here is what I have found...After comparing the 05 manual and 05 auto PCM diagrams and doing some searching on here:

 

Pin 34 on connector B134 identifies the vehicle as manual or auto. Rumor has it that this pin just needs to be grounded (or ungrounded) to switch between the two.

 

Pin 9 on connector B137 is the nuetral switch input. Only problem I see here is, according to Alldata, the manual is looking for 12 volts when in nuetral, and the auto is looking for 0 volts in nuetral, 12 volts the rest of the time. No idea whether this would work.

 

Clutch switch would need to be wired into pin 1 on connector B134

 

Backup lights look like they could be wired into the same spot at the OP connector

 

I can't find the vehicle speed sensor input so no idea on this one.

 

Also, I would really like to know if the body control modules are the same for manual and automatic cars.

 

There are 2 different ECU part numbers for manuals and autos so something has to be different between them. Just not sure what...