Questions for those with the JDM 20mm sway.

How does it feel? There hasn't been many reviews on it. How does it handle in wet and snow? Does it reduce the understeer? How about the lift-throtle issue in a turn?

It definitely tightens up the handling, but it is not a HUGE difference. I'd say it's a 'must-do' considering the ease of install and price. As for lift-throttle OS - I haven't had an issue but I don't drive the car as hard as some. YMMV.

It's more of an initial bite into a turn... very few people can tell the difference from upgrades on passive suspension. Unless you are driving to the tire's limits and balancing the grip at that point, then you will notice a HUGE difference than stock.

 

Keefe

I was hoping for more replies considering how big the original group buy was. I just don't want to increase the problem where you get tail happy in a turn if you let off of the gas.

patience, young grasshopper. Some of us probably were busy working (like we should be) and haven't seen the thread yet.

I'm waiting for a warm weekend day to install mine, won't be long now.

Sorry, I'm in the process of buying one now so I was just making sure of my decision. I'm on the East Coast so I have to remember about those on the west coast. I get on between patients. What's your opinion on adjustable endlinks to with the bar and to put on the front OEM bar? That's what my tuner/dealer/service guy recommends.

I cant tell you what the bar alone will do because I put a few things on at once (if I had time and resources I would have done them one at a time). But I can say that the stock endlinks are small compared to AVO and very small compared to Perrin. I personally could not justify the cost of the Perrins so I went with AVO. See pic below, AVO vs. Stock.

What's the advantage of the AVO endlinks over the stock ones? Sorry if this is a noob question. Still learning.

I have a 24mm front and 22mm rear whiteline sway bars on the car at the moment. The rear helped quite a bit with understeer but made some snap on overstear at the limit before the front was installed. Now the car tracking is much improved and it feels more solid and controlable, even on stock endlinks. You might try a large front bar if you want to feel more planted. You might want adjustable bars (i think most of them are) since you can change things up to match your preferences as time goes on.

the whitelines aren't adjustable are they?

Yes they are. The front can be set to 22 or 24mm while the rear one can be set at 20 or 22mm. There is a version of the whiteline bar meant for the 2.5i that is not adjustable so be carefull not to get that one.

If you need help ordering one, you might try topspeed in atlanta GA where i got mine. Jason porter is the guy to talk to. He is very friendly and willing to help out with any problems you might have. http://www.topspeedsales.com/ I would call rather than email as he gets backed up with email at times.

What's the advantage of the AVO endlinks over the stock ones? Sorry if this is a noob question. Still learning.

 

First - I have the 20 mm JDM RSB but have not installed it. It arrived about three weeks before my car did so I've wanted to both break in the car and get a good sense for how well the stock suspension responds to driving inputs.

 

That, coupled with so much rain lately and my MG and BMW project cars taking up "dry" room right now, means that it's still waiting for the install. Now that the car is broken in, I'll probably put it on next weekend since it looks like another downpour is scheduled for this weekend.

 

Second - I bought AVO front and rear adjustable endlinks because I have planned all along to install STI Pink springs. The Pinks will lower the car so I'll need to shorten/re-adjust the ASB (F/R) endlink preload as the car is lowered. I will also (eventually) install the JDM GT-B Bilstein suspension so, again, I'll want to adjust the endlink geometry to fit.

 

The other advantage to the adjustible endlinks is that you can dial-in additional ASB preload, just by lengthening the endlinks and adding further balance to the suspension.

 

SBT

I've got the 20mm rsb, along with the AVO endlinks and bushings, but have not had a chance to install them yet. I was trying to plan ahead for pink springs as well.

 

Subietonic - your post count is freaking me out Do you find it beneficial to leave the endlinks a little longer? (Off topic - what year is your MG?)

 

Thanks,

Chris

I was hoping for more replies considering how big the original group buy was. I just to want to increase the problem where you get tail happy in a turn if you let off of the gas.

 

tires contribute more of that action than the sway bar itself since I can get a stock GT to do that already with just better tires. The RE92s do not have the grip capacity to control the car 60/40 weight split like that. You would probably have to drive slower to feel the lift-throttle steer. You can get some stickier tires to really get the front end to bite the asphalt and allow the rear to swing out under lift-throttle steering. Again, the world's biggest sway bar isn't going to help if you can't get your front end to pivot (which is really relying on the outside front tire as your pivot point) because that's where the weight transfer comes into play. Basically you have to balance the grip between all 4 tires. A larger sway bar helps distributes the load from outside tire to the inside tire. If the load is too great for the shocks and springs, the inside will just lift off the ground since the sway bar is so stiff and it wont bend, and this is where you need to understand that you need a pivot point (the front tire) and puposely lose traction in the outside rear tire.

 

I hope that helps you understand a little bit of what really goes on with the car during lift-throttle steering. Sway bars are a double-edge sword. The good side to them is that they transfer the loads from the outside tire to the inside tire, keeping the entire axle as straight as possible (hence no rolling) at the same time, if it's too big or too stiff, it takes out the independence of the suspension where sometimes it's nice to have all 4 tires touching the ground rather than than 3, 2, or even 1 tire on the ground. Sway bars only work if the opposing end of the tire is counteracting by sticking down on the ground. You can exceed the suspensions' limits if you over drive the car regardless of what parts you have on the car.

 

It's very critical of what sizes you need in a sway bar to make the car do what you want. A friend of mine who drives an STi disconnected the front sway bar and runs a 22mm rear instead. He can really make that front end of the that car pivot. Some autocrossers love to just have a larger front sway to keep the car from corner diving when trail-braking. Dont worry if you don't have a "matching" set from one company. Buy what you need to make the car perform to your liking as everyone has different driving skills and styles.

 

Keefe

I have the Pirelli PZero Nero M+S tires. Now the tires have much more grip but the turn in feels reduced because of the increased grip. How will increasing to the JDM 20 mm rear sway effect my set up? Should I upgrade front and rears with perrins or whitelines instead of just the rears? This car is a daily driver. No track, no auto-x. I won't lower the car with STI Pinks (it barely clears concrete curbs now).

Yes they are. The front can be set to 22 or 24mm while the rear one can be set at 20 or 22mm. There is a version of the whiteline bar meant for the 2.5i that is not adjustable so be carefull not to get that one.

If you need help ordering one, you might try topspeed in atlanta GA where i got mine. Jason porter is the guy to talk to. He is very friendly and willing to help out with any problems you might have. http://www.topspeedsales.com/ I would call rather than email as he gets backed up with email at times.

 

MrCofee, have you used Top Speed yourself?

 

How are they? Is this somone I can hand over my Legacy GT or WRX to and have them do the suspension mods, alignment and tuning and expect a great result?

 

BTW- can't beleive the luck, they are just 20 miles from my place.

 

Thanks,

 

Jonathan

I got my sways from Jason at Top speed but ended up installing them myself since I had to come back early to ohio for the semester. Jason is well known over on Nasioc as he used to be the subaru performance parts guy for 2 dealerships in GA before starting Top speed. He is very friendly and extremely knowledgeable. I plan on having him put in my catless uppipe and possibly dyno the car this summer when i get back to atlanta and have no worries at all. There are subi meets in his area of atlanta where you could say hey and get to know him. I know a lot of people like to get to know people who will be working with their cars so by all means take that route if that is more comfortable for you. Between he and doug, another very knowledgeable gentleman that works there, they can do most anything you could want suspension or engine management wise. If you do call him, tell him will in ohio says hey.

 

Hope this helps

Will

I have the JDM rear bar which Zenonk installed for me with the AVO endlinks (and I also have pinks, so I can't give my opinion based purely on the bar alone). I can say that I have yet to notice a difference in handling relative to when I had the stock bar and pinks installed. I have pushed the car as hard as public back roads and my skill level reasonably allowed, and even on the stock tires, this car has tons of grip and corners fairly flat and neutral. I did not encounter lift throttle oversteer on the couple of occasions when I overcooked an entrance into a (2nd or 3rd gear) corner and had to back off a bit (at least not such that the rear of the car was in danger of breaking loose).

 

lift throttle oversteer on public roads, IMO, is only an issue if you have severely misjudged what you are doing. in such a situation, I could believe that that the JDM rear bar, or any larger rear bar, would slightly enhance the possibility that the rear of the car would come out accidentally. but you would really have to be driving foolishly for that to happen. I mean, let's be honest - who here has spun out on a public road (and not learned a lesson)? THe only time I had an issue with lift throttle oversteer that I did not purposefully induce was with a RWD car on a dirt road. that was a little scary.

 

all of which is to say, I would not be worried about getting the jdm rear bar, or that bar in combo with stiffer springs. as the others have mentioned, upgrading tires and other things as well will continue to change the cars handling characteristics - likely in the direction of hgiher handling thresholds, but smaller margin for driver errors.....

so you're not seeing any difference in handling pre and post JDM bar? was it worth it?

I can't discern any difference, no. it may be that there is some increased roll resistance at levels that I simply don't drive hard enough to detect (that's my caveat).

 

I think the endlinks were worth it, based on what people say about beefing up components plus the adjustability with the car lowered. The bar isn't that much money, so I don't feel bad about having spent it. would I buy it again? let's just say it would not be at the top of my list.

 

note also that you may get different results with a larger rear bar - the cusco or whiteline - effects may be more noticeable than the JDM.

 

also, if I had not done the pinks, I very definitely would have gotten the rear bar anyway, as people say it does make a noticeable improvement with the stock suspension....

 

hope that helps.

thanks

I can say that I have yet to notice a difference in handling relative to when I had the stock bar and pinks installed. I have pushed the car as hard as public back roads and my skill level reasonably allowed, and even on the stock tires, this car has tons of grip and corners fairly flat and neutral.

 

I had lots of bodyroll with my legacy even at low speeds which stiff front and rear sways helped clear up for the most part. I think you having pinks might be throwing another variable into the mix since, on an otherwise stock suspention, myself and others who have driven my car have noticed far less body roll and significant changes in stearing. I would be curious to drive a legacy with pinks only verse a car with only stiff sways. Anyone near columbus ohio with just pinks on an 05 who wants to go for a drive

 

lift throttle oversteer on public roads, IMO, is only an issue if you have severely misjudged what you are doing. in such a situation, I could believe that that the JDM rear bar, or any larger rear bar, would slightly enhance the possibility that the rear of the car would come out accidentally.

 

With just a 22mm rear sway bar on the legacy and no upgraded front, i could easily get power on overstear. With some rain or snow or simply high speeds i could feel some lift throttle overstear if i really pushed the car. Nothing bad, agreed, but something to keep in mind none the less if you are only doing the rear sway of the car and no other suspention mods. It's more pronounced over 90, but how often do you hit turns at those speeds on the street.

 

Glad to hear the pinks are working out well for you. I might go down that path at some point and it's good to hear positive results.

yeah, I'm liking the pinks, but upgrading struts will be a consideration as well. I agree that the bar is a great first step, bringing good results. I wd have been better off putting the 150 for the bar toward some used jdm bilsteins, but it's not a big deal. I'm giving myself another full year to get the car to exactly where I want it to be. as a side note, at some point I've gotta go to a parking lot or something and purposefully induce lift throttle oversteer on dry pavement. good experiment....

I have owned a MY04 WRX, and now the MY05 Legacy GT. What I have experienced and what I have read are true about subaru suspension. Subaru's understeer is the biggest problem in handling. I have replaced both cars rear swaybars. That and tires is all that is needed. I always bring this back up when I read about people and suspension mods; replacing the front swaybar with a bigger diameter is going to help the cause of understeer. Front controls rear as rear helps control front. Also I have yet seen evidence stating that the "solid" endlinks help. I had them in my WRX and could not tell any difference. I also had a lower chasis brace; that was a slight improvement. Another myth is the tower brace bar; crap in my opinion. Maybe in cars in the 60s/70s but not in todays cars. There is little to no movement in the towers themselves. Conclusion: Subaru needs to place factory spec B swaybars on their rides along with better rubber. PERIOD.