burnfirewalls Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Working on my USDM 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback and I've come across a significant amount of body rust. Given that, I am trying to determine what rust is on primarily cosmetic pieces (wheel wells) vs. rust on pieces that will have a structural impact. I haven't been able to get a good sense of the underbody, frame and chassis, not enough to understand the rusted pieces that I'm seeing. It seems that I am probably just being paranoid with it since Booger's only a 1999 and many folks have older Subies, but I'd like to learn more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooln30 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Take some pics and post them so we can get a better idea. The usual rust on the rear quarters isn't a problem untill it works its way towar the strut tower area then it's a problem. So you probably want to have it taken care of the correct way by cutting out the rust and welding in fresh stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemingway Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Pics would be helpful for an evaluation. Every panel serves a dual purpose: cosmetic and adding to the overall structural integrity and rigidity of the vehicle. Some are more important to the structural integrity (pillars and rocker panels) than others (hoods and trunks). Hard to say in your case without pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Will post more pics tomorrow, but here's from yesterday. Both the driver and passenger's side rocker panels (the piece that runs beneath the door) have rotted through close to the rear wheel well. They seem to be holding up much better near the front, I'm guessing because of the water infiltration from the wheel well rust in the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I saw that picture on the other thread, just different angle. That rust has gone pretty deep, Looks like its getting to your wheel well which is spot welded to the rear frame rails. If you can pull out your trunk carpets and trim pieces and snap some pictures you could be helped further. Take out your rear seats as well, I see on the rust on the dog leg section on the rear door opening. Since the rockers are a sectional part I wouldn't be surprised to see it underneath and inside the pinchwelds. Being paranoid about things like this is not a bad thing, you don't know how much that rust has advanced, if it gets to the cars structure like frame and strut towers as mentioned before, it could be very dangerous on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 I will go about getting those pictures this weekend. Any idea what may have allowed the rust to advance this badly? Is it simply that the previous owners didn't keep an eye on it and treat it before it spread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Could have prior damage that wasn't fixed properly,coupled with the fact you live in Rhode island. I have seen many subarus with the rust where it is on your car but not so advanced for a 99...after you pull up your carpeting and seats look around for welds that don't look factory, missing seam sealer, krinkles in the metal from previous accidents....basically shit that is out of sorts or different quality that you would expect from a manufacturer. You could carfax it and see if there was any reported accidents prior to your purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 If you can take a picture of the rear body without the bumper cover and impact absorber, and look at the bottom of your liftgate inside the spare tire well and make sure you have the honeycomb style sound deadeners. You might have to remove the bumper beam to look inside the frame rails with a flashlight to see prior damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooln30 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Wait....is that a pic of the rust on your car or just an example of one rotting away at a junk yard? Sorry to say it but she's a lost cause, so just drive it untill the wheels fall off, literally. That rust is pretty bad and if its rusted that much on the outside chances are the wheel tubs are rusted as well. Sticking money to correctly fix that via welding in New quarters, rocker panels, and probably wheel tubs isn't worth it and would cost more to fix than the car is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooln30 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Our Subarus are known to rust in the rear quarter panels and yes if not fixed the rust just spreads as they say "like cancer". There's no way to treat rust, well you can slow it down by grinding the spot down to bare metal and apply a rust inhibitor. But that isn't a 100% fix only cutting out the rust and welding in fresh metal would fix it long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Removed the seats and trim on the interior driver's side wheel well, attached are the better of the pictures that I took. Seats and pieces are still out since I am going to check the passenger's side, although it isn't as bad at first glance as the driver's side. I appreciate the advice, because body condition seems more art than science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 That amount of rust is on both sides? That's quite a bit and I'm sorry to say it too, we don't know your money situation or whether you have other vehicles, but that one is soon to be unsafe. Just like anything it can be fixed but you would be better off looking for one for sale in the southwest with the cash you would be spending at the bodyshop which would probably be north of $4000 bucks if you wanted a partial re-spray from the b-pillars back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 I do have another vehicle, thankfully. Would a bodyshop be able/willing to stabilize the frame/body joins from a safety perspective but leave the cosmetic issues alone? What I'd really like is a fresh set of joins on that fender/frame intersection beneath the door, by the rocker panel. Patches and visual bodywork I was already planning on doing by myself. Also, because I don't have a good grasp of body structure - what are the specific pieces that make this unsafe from a rust perspective? I'm trying to get a sense of that in case I do need to find another one in the next few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 If you look up toward the top of the strut tower you can see the rust is bubbling the paint just under the strut mounting area. There isn't any stiffenening at the strut just 18ga.material the strength that comes from keeping your car up is only the strut and the other suspension components like the trailing arm and that is bolted to the frame...so once the rust has weakened enough the strut will push through the tower and your car will be on the floor. Subarus just like most cars are a unibody type structure, that means every piece of of sheetmetal welded together corresponds to one unified structure. I'm a pretty experienced bodyman and I can't speak for any others but I think any body shop that does quality work won't touch your car unless its to bring it back to pre-rust condition.basically they are going to either source a rear half of a rust free car or purchase brand new repair panels and completely repair it. Its a matter of safety for you and the public in which you commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Crap. So my mental model of structure vs. cosmetic probably died back when the unibody was invented. Thanks for all the advice. I'm not currently driving the car since I have all the metal exposed. The next step is probably to setup an appointment at a body shop just to get the bad news in writing. I moved from Chicago to Rhode Island. Next step: someplace with less humidity and road salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 The good news is that at least you have a spare parts car should you decide to find another one like it good motor, drive line and interior parts are worth keeping around or sell them to finance another outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 A lesson for others who find this thread: pleaidestar is very wise about subaru body rust Removed the passenger side interior trim today to discover that even though the passenger side looks better externally, it's worse internally. And I see why that area is so important, with all the welds and joins in that relatively small section. Urgh. Here's a short video that I recorded of the damage: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgGogk9b2Y]1999 Subaru Legacy Outback - rear fender rust - YouTube[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 In the shop now for an estimate, so we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I hope you here good news, a Subaru coming off the road is like a funeral for enthusiasts. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnfirewalls Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Shop confirmed that both strut towers are done with, and a list of myriad other problems, including brake lines. Deemed it unsafe to drive. In fact, while taking it for a final spin in a local parking lot, one of the brake lines burst so I limped it home in 1st (tested that I had low-speed braking before calling a tow truck.) Very glad I was three blocks away from home. So that's the end of Booger the Subaru's life on the road. Thanks for the advice & help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemingway Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Sorry to hear that ... but perhaps Booger can live on as a transplant donor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Yeah man, tough break..^ for donor parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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