Responses to going upscale...from Autoweek

[flat4fantasy]

[url]http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=06650667[/url] (08:30 July 14, 2004) Experts predict uphill battle for Subaru's effort to go upscale in U.S. By DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News CHERRY HILL, N.J. -- Fuji Heavy Industries' bosses in Japan must be dreaming. The little carmaker's executives are demanding that Subaru draw even with Audi and approach BMW in U.S. brand prestige within five years. That's quite a shift for a brand that once advertised itself as "inexpensive and built to stay that way." In fact, hardly anyone thinks Subaru can pull it off. Yet Subaru of America Inc. executives are working hard to compete with European luxury brands rather than emulate Toyota, Honda and Nissan. Subaru already has distanced itself from other Japanese automakers by selling only all-wheel-drive vehicles and getting rid of inexpensive small cars. Sales nearly have doubled from just over 100,000 vehicles in 1994 to more than 200,000 sales expected this year. But despite pressure to go upscale and earn bigger margins, Subaru executives here say it will take time. In addition to offering better equipped products, Subaru's upmarket strategy includes: >>> New advertising that focuses on the brand. >>> Additional exclusive dealerships and upgraded showrooms. >>> New styling that debuts next year. >>> A new logo. But even with the 2005 Outback and Legacy, which debuted in May, analysts say Subaru models are a long way from luxury products. "They have become the sole Japanese maker that doesn't want to become Toyota, and that is a good place to be," says Steve Saxty, a partner in Powerbrand Associates, a New York consulting firm. "But they have to find a product range that a more demanding customer would want to pay a premium for." Jeff Schuster, executive director of global forecasting at J.D. Power and Associates in Troy, Mich., says Subaru is embarking "on a difficult road." "They are not thought to be a luxury brand today," Schuster says. "They are more of a niche player and will take more marketing and products to move up." Rick DeSilva, president of Liberty Subaru in Oradell, N.J., says moving upscale is the right strategy. He calls it a natural progression in his market, a wealthy suburban area where Subaru sales have been strong. Former Subaru of America CEO Takao Saito, who returned to Fuji Heavy in Japan in June, says Subaru aspires to be a prestige brand. But he says the push to be premium and more profitable comes mainly from the parent company. Fuji wants it sooner rather than later. But Saito sounds more realistic. "Within five years we will not reach BMW, but we will be closer to … Audi," he says. Subaru's positioning is not as high in the United States as it is in markets such as Switzerland. "Perhaps Fuji does not understand the difficulty of moving upscale in the United States," Saito says. For example, he says, Fuji pushed for Subaru of America to take its name off the rear of cars. But U.S. management convinced the Japanese bosses that it was too soon and that the logo is not as well known here as in other markets. Analyst Susan Jacobs, who tracks the luxury-car market at Rutherford, N.J.-based Jacobs & Associates, has doubts about Subaru's ambitions. "The market is too crowded for Subaru to easily move to a more premium positioning for its product," Jacobs says. "There are too many other brands that already have a stronger premium and luxury brand position that will be competing very aggressively for affluent buyers. "You have to have scale more than product. You have to be upscale in your dealerships and be consistently communicating your brand on the marketing side." Subaru executives say that's just what they're doing. The company is upgrading its network of 581 dealerships. Under its ongoing Signature Facility program, about 40 percent of Subaru's dealers have renovated their facilities. Subaru says by year end it will have 210 exclusive dealerships, compared with 147 in 2000, and 175 separate showrooms, compared with 130 four years ago. By 2006 Subaru expects that 76 percent of its dealerships will either be exclusive or have separate showrooms, up from about two-thirds today. Subaru also is working on its image. It launched new print and TV advertising this spring with the debut of the Outback and Legacy. The ads focus on the brand as well as the product, says Fred Adcock, executive vice president of Subaru of America. Meanwhile, the logo has been modernized. The six-star cluster badge now has a silver rather than gold background. "As we transition to having the (new) brand and dealer signs - all of those touch points for the consumer - then we will build awareness," Adcock says. The Outback sedan and wagon, which debuted in 1996, "saved Subaru," Adcock says. The Forester followed in June 1997. An SUV with room for seven passengers will be launched next spring. With the new Outback and Legacy and new SUV, Subaru plans to reach 250,000 units in annual sales by 2006, up from 186,819 last year. Sales through the first six months of 2004 are down 4.1 percent compared with last year, to 88,227. Performance is key to the product strategy. In 2002, Subaru launched the rally car-inspired Impreza WRX. Last year, it added the Impreza STi, with a 2.5-liter turbocharged four-cylinder 300-hp engine. Both models have been more successful than Subaru expected. The automaker sold about 24,000 WRX models in both 2002 and 2003. The STi has exceeded its target of 300 a month. Sales range between 500 and 600 per month, Adcock says. Subaru is "the most overengineered among the Japanese," says George Peterson, president of AutoPacific, a consulting firm in Tustin, Calif. He says Subaru has one of the most sophisticated awd systems on the market, and other systems, such as its antilock brakes, also are among the best. Subaru's quirky looks will soften in the future. The new Outback and Legacy mimic European styling and have upgraded and more stylish interiors. But premium features such as navigation or upscale entertainment and communications systems are not available. Those features will appear on the upcoming seven-passenger SUV being designed by Subaru's new chief designer, Andreas Zapatinas, who has worked at Alfa Romeo, BMW, Fiat and Pininfarina. The SUV will debut a family look that will appear on all future Subarus, Adcock says. The design will be sleek and European and signal a dramatic shift in Subaru design, he says. And the SUV will cost more than Subaru's current range. The price will be above the Outback, which starts at $33,970, including transportation. Still, AutoPacific's Peterson says the seven-passenger SUV isn't enough for a brand to be considered premium. "All manufacturers need a seven-passenger in their portfolio," he says. The new Outback and Legacy are better than the cars they replaced but not sophisticated enough to be considered premium, Peterson says. "The Legacy is an update of the previous one," he says. "They have not had an all-new car for quite a while. If they want to go after Audi, they need a new vehicle from the ground up."

[rao]

Welcome to the harsh realities of the market. I thnk the silver background on the logo will make all of the difference :wink:

[Salty]

Seems trivial, but they will never be a luxury brand with a frameless window and what feels like a lightweight steering wheel. They need more heft to go luxury.

[IwannaSportSedan]

If subaru is trying to take on audi pound for pound, and approach BMW, not only is that difficult but perhaps not a good business decision. I think a good place would be to nestle in between basic car companies like chrysler, ford, chevy, toyota and honda, and the Audi, infiniti, lexus, BMW, and MB premium nameplates. Lexus, infinity, and to a certain point Acura are trying be BMW. Subaru will just be another brand trying to topple the king of the hill. Acura has a nice market placement. it has prestige to the name, but it isn't as hell bent at being BMW at all costs. You can never win, because your target is always moving. I'm not sure BMW is a great target anymore, due to it's weird styling moves. Subaru with an image upgrade could, and I think, should be shooting for an Acura like market placement. Premium without being ultra expensive, and not looking like yet another puppy nipping at BMW's heels. Contrary to the article, I think the Legacy and Outback are spot on to where Subaru should be going. 18k-38k market segment, straddling the new car average price, which is somewhere north of 23k. Market that "overbuilt" aspect. "High Quality that is within reach" If they need a 7-seat SUV at the top of the price bracket. make it an upgrade on the Outback VDC, like the Forester is an on an impreza outback sport wagon. I do agree with the article that there are some creature comforts that the Legacy/outback could pick up. Auto up-down on all windows, seat/mirror/etc memory, quality options for nav and audio. The car is mechanically 100% on spec, but could just use that extra boost of available options (mostly electronics) to seat it firmly in that market segment.

[SC GT]

[quote name='flat4fantasy']"They have become the sole Japanese maker that doesn't want to become Toyota, and that is a good place to be," says Steve Saxty, a partner in Powerbrand Associates, a New York consulting firm. Subaru is "the most overengineered among the Japanese," says George Peterson, president of AutoPacific, a consulting firm in Tustin, Calif. He says Subaru has one of the most sophisticated awd systems on the market, and other systems, such as its antilock brakes, also are among the best. [/quote] I love these two quotes. They embody the reasons why I am now a huge Subaru fan.

[Dr. Zevil]

interesting article.. too bad that american's really care about what BRAND they buy and not necessarily how they perform. I hope Subaru makes it. I think that they are heading in the right direction, but shouldn't get to overzealous.

[racerdave]

[quote]"The Legacy is an update of the previous one," he says. "They have not had an all-new car for quite a while. If they want to go after Audi, they need a new vehicle from the ground up."[/quote] And WTF is this? I thought the chassis, suspension WAS all new from the ground up. Maybe it's because the styling it too evolutionary??

[7stars]

The way Subaru can get into the luxury market is by building a luxury SUV. Not a station wagon on steroids, but a copy of a RX330 or Toureg. VW has been slowly going upscale, with expensive trim Passats. You don't even hear it being compared to an Accord or Camry anymore. They failed miserably with the W8, but the Toureg was a huge hit, due to its design, size, and features.

[scubie02]

Eh, I've thought VW was more upscale than the garden variety Japanese brands for awhile. They always have all the most thoughtful features, and it always takes the japanese companies years to catch up, even *gasp* Infiniti and such. My 99 Jetta had auto up AND down on the windows, tilt AND telescoping steering wheel, all the airbags, the pistons instead of hinges in the trunk etc so no crushing or loss of space--many of these things even the japanese premium brands still don't have now. And VW's have TORQUE, something many japanese cars fall down on (high hp, not so great torque). They are also sharp looking cars with great interiors. All those things having been said, the downfall of VW/Audi is the dang reliability. Thats why I got rid of mine the moment the warranty was up. It was enough of a pain to have it in the shop when someone ELSE was paying for it, but if *I* had been shelling out for it, I'd have been pretty PO'd...

[outahere]

[quote name='flat4fantasy'] Subaru is "the most overengineered among the Japanese," says George Peterson, president of AutoPacific, a consulting firm in Tustin, Calif. He says Subaru has one of the most sophisticated awd systems on the market, and other systems, such as its antilock brakes, also are among the best. [/quote] From what I have read from various sources, the Subaru manual transmission is far from "overengineered". And whereas the auto trans cars may have a sophisticated AWD system, what is "sophisticated" about the AWD system in the manual trans cars?

[rao]

[quote name='outahere']From what I have read from various sources, the Subaru manual transmission is far from "overengineered". And whereas the auto trans cars may have a sophisticated AWD system, what is "sophisticated" about the AWD system in the manual trans cars?[/quote] Here we go...... Whether the manual tranny in prior Subaru's is good or not is an argument that will never end. The manual transmission in the Forester XT and Legacy GT has a different case (and supposedly "thicker" gears, which I haven't seen confirmed anywhere), which shuld cure whatever shortcomings there were. What was basically happening is that thegear carriers were moving apart from each other under heavy loads (like way beyond stock power levels wth sticky tires) and that is a rcepie for trouble and the second gear usually went becasue it is in the middle of the set. A stronger case will solve that problem. The center diff in the manual transmission cars is simple, cheap and it works, why change it unless you are lining up for a WRC event? The reference to the "sophistication" of the awd system Subaru uses (which is made up of off the shelf parts, BTW) shows that even a lot of people in the industry don't kow waht they are talking about and listen to the marketing messages too closely.

[Dr. Zevil]

Subaru keeps it simple.. but is founded on solid engineering. That's the beauty, they don't overcook thier products. keeping cost down on MSRP and repair prices. Although the tranny in the WRX was not everything is should have been, it's not horrible or anything. I can't wait to feel the action in the GT though.

[flat4fantasy]

[quote name='racerdave'][quote]"The Legacy is an update of the previous one," he says. "They have not had an all-new car for quite a while. If they want to go after Audi, they need a new vehicle from the ground up."[/quote] And WTF is this? I thought the chassis, suspension WAS all new from the ground up. Maybe it's because the styling it too evolutionary??[/quote] I think this was just from a contributor, all the Legacy is a complete redesign, so he just doesn't know what he's talking about...FWIW, I tend to see a lot of people who have a "stigma" of what a Subaru is...and these people do not know the genuine in's and out's of the "newer" Subies. And what Sportsedan said, Subie needs to definately just stick in that class. They are not and realistically cannot compete with the likes of Audi/BMW. Stay "upper-class" Japanese, and they'll do just fine. Peace, Dave

[Th3Franz]

I almost wonder if Subaru needs to create a new brand if they want to go upscale. Kind of like what Nissan did.. I just hope Subaru aims to offer cars that can compete with BMW and Audi, yet still cost less.

[crapy]

i dont know much about inifiniti until the G35s and FXs arrived, and i think these 2 cars really helped Nissan/Infiniti to be famous; consequently, being accepted as competitor of BMW, MB, Lexus, and even porsche ( the SUV). rememver nissan had financial problem some years ago? but once they have changed the new global marketing dude, every problem got solved... i'm saying this becox i believe Subaru can apply the same (kind of) strategy or theory. to become luxury within 5 years isnt impossible, but Subaru really need to create a better image: like what they did in japan. at least, hire someone else to get subaru.com looks better. (subaru.com is insanely ugly, imo). i also agree that subaru should modify their logo a bit: like ignoring the background color (blue), and with the silver stars only. some outstanding concept car is also possible, which infiniti does a great job on it. Subaru has an image of cheap but powerful performance for a long time; now, the B4 is trying to lift up it's image of Subaru to become upper class. if u have watched the japan ad of B4, u will see it's really trying hard to be luxury, somehow.

[MtnSub]

My wife had a fully loaded Audi A6 Quattro Wagon from 200 to 2002 and she hated it. If all of you or the general public think this is a luxury car, it is because of interior design, a complete list of gadgets and years of marketing, not substance. Do people really see Audi in the same class as BMW and BENZ? A weak wana-be cousin maybe. It drives me crazy to read that Suby cannot move up to Audi land. BMW land no, but the new Leg is one degree away from Audi. Yes market perception will take marketing $ years. Assuming the new Leg GT and OBXT are real quality Subaru’s with great performance, Suby has done the hard part. They have created a car that can start changing their image and back up their advert campaign claims. Adding the toaster, microwave, auto-up down, high grade carpeting etc is easy, no challenge, just more build cost. I bought the first year Lexus RX300 and let me tell you it had really cheap materials that did not hold up, rough finish edges and missing features. It was very comfortable and reliable, it was launched at the height of SUV Crazy and it was very successful. The later Lexus RX300s had much nicer interior trim, quality and all features, even the turning radius went from 43.7 ft. to 37.4 ft. I am sure Suby can upscale interior finish, materials and features over next few model years. IMO, Lexus, Infinity G35, Acura, Audi are lux group below BMW/BENZ. If Suby focuses its resources to dominate the market niche it created with top performance and more luxo interiors, they can be the Lexus, Infinity, Audi of their niche. Don’t try to be toyota or BMW. Setting BMW as a goal to shoot for is great, but I am sure Fujitsu really wants more unit sales at higher prices and higher margins. That is the real goal and Suby can achieve that without being seen as equal to BMW in five years. Dominating and expand niche market by being the best product and value is a realistic goal if they don’t leave their core strengths.

[outahere]

[quote name='Th3Franz']I almost wonder if Subaru needs to create a new brand if they want to go upscale.....[/quote] They have, it's called Saabaru. :wink:

[Ridgeracer]

[quote name='IwannaSportSedan']If subaru is trying to take on audi pound for pound, and approach BMW, not only is that difficult but perhaps not a good business decision. I think a good place would be to nestle in between basic car companies like chrysler, ford, chevy, toyota and honda, and the Audi, infiniti, lexus, BMW, and MB premium nameplates. Lexus, infinity, and to a certain point Acura are trying be BMW. Subaru will just be another brand trying to topple the king of the hill. Acura has a nice market placement. it has prestige to the name, but it isn't as hell bent at being BMW at all costs. You can never win, because your target is always moving. I'm not sure BMW is a great target anymore, due to it's weird styling moves. Subaru with an image upgrade could, and I think, should be shooting for an Acura like market placement. Premium without being ultra expensive, and not looking like yet another puppy nipping at BMW's heels. Contrary to the article, I think the Legacy and Outback are spot on to where Subaru should be going. 18k-38k market segment, straddling the new car average price, which is somewhere north of 23k. Market that "overbuilt" aspect. "High Quality that is within reach" If they need a 7-seat SUV at the top of the price bracket. make it an upgrade on the Outback VDC, like the Forester is an on an impreza outback sport wagon. I do agree with the article that there are some creature comforts that the Legacy/outback could pick up. Auto up-down on all windows, seat/mirror/etc memory, quality options for nav and audio. The car is mechanically 100% on spec, but could just use that extra boost of available options (mostly electronics) to seat it firmly in that market segment.[/quote] Thats exactly what I was thinking too.

[jk]

they'll never be upscale with re92 tires.

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='MtnSub']My wife had a fully loaded Audi A6 Quattro Wagon from 200 to 2002 and she hated it. If all of you or the general public think this is a luxury car, it is because of interior design, a complete list of gadgets and years of marketing, not substance. Do people really see Audi in the same class as BMW and BENZ? A weak wana-be cousin maybe. It drives me crazy to read that Suby cannot move up to Audi land. BMW land no, but the new Leg is one degree away from Audi. Yes market perception will take marketing $ years. IMO, Lexus, Infinity G35, Acura, Audi are lux group below BMW/BENZ. If Suby focuses its resources to dominate the market niche it created with top performance and more luxo interiors, they can be the Lexus, Infinity, Audi of their niche. Don’t try to be toyota or BMW. Setting BMW as a goal to shoot for is great, but I am sure Fujitsu really wants more unit sales at higher prices and higher margins. That is the real goal and Suby can achieve that without being seen as equal to BMW in five years. Dominating and expand niche market by being the best product and value is a realistic goal if they don’t leave their core strengths.[/quote] I have to agree with you about not leaving their core strengths. Too many companies try to move around in the market, and lose what brand equity they had, by diluting their product. (did that sound MBA enough? I am no MBA.) I am sorry to hear about your wife's experience with Audi. I can't say it is the first I am hearing. There is an aspect of Audi that Subaru will not be emulating, I hope. Read on... Audi, Infiniti, and Lexus are trying to be full lux brands. The 30-50k bracket is NOT the only one that these brands play in. Audi reaches into the 80k-90k range with the A8 and A8L. Infinity has the Q45, M45, and QX45, and now their big SUV based on the full size Nissan SUV. Lexus has the LS even above the IS and ES. All of these brands are trying to cash in against the German and Jaguar marketshare. They are all trying to BE BMW or MB, with their tiered model lineup. Maybe they fall short, but they are trying to compete mostly model for model. Hell, even Cadillac is trying to get in that game, with the STS, CTS, STX, and Escalade. EVEN IF subaru wanted to go toe to toe with the A4, by putting in a host of new electronic features, and creature comforts in the Legacy/Outback, and come out with an SUV to compete with the plethora of behemoths on the market, that still doesn't mean they can be a "Luxury brand" You can't claim to compete with a brand, just because your top model compares to their bottom model. And I just don't see Subaru coming out with a car to compete with the A8, the 740BMW, the E or S class MB, or even the Lexus LS and Infiniti Q45. I don't think that is even a wise choice. The VW Phaeton is trying this right now, and it is arguably up to the task, but the VW brand image is ensuring that Pheatons are just showroom jewelry. They aren't selling. As I said before... All of the Japanese re-branded lux lines, Infiniti and Lexus in particular, are trying to go toe to toe with the German premium brands that have owned the market for decades. Subaru is destined to be an "also ran", if they try to do that. I mean that in the past tense, because they will go bankrupt trying. That is not a cheap, or forgiving market. I think Subaru, and Acura (already there), and perhaps Mazda, should concentrate on building interesting, unique, and desireable cars for the folks who can't swing a BMW-class payment. If they do that, they won't have to worry too much about the tauruses and camrys of the market. those are boring marketshare tools, for PointA-PointB people. but the Legacy, TSX/TL, and the old Mazda Millenia/new Mazda 6 are much more interesting, a little bit nicer, more powerful, and more fun to drive, for less money on outset and in upkeep than the lux brands. Something that interests people who know something about cars. I am 26, Married, without children so far, out of Credit card debt, and just bought a house. I cannot afford a BMW or the Audi's maintenance, but in a year or two, when the current vehicles are paid for, I could very well be looking at a new or nearly new Legacy GT. The fact that the Legacy GT is overbuilt and reliable is a necessity, and that it is faster than some Audis and BMWs is gravy, and makes my choice that much easier. I am just one part of the market that Suby/Acura/Mazda should be mainly focusing on. Families with similar means, and other folks who want affordable ingenuity and performance are the targets, as well. Again, this is my opinion, but I think chasing down BMW is a mistake for Subaru. Suby should do what it does best, and it is really coming into it's stride now.

[MtnSub]

We are on the same wave-length IwanaSportSedan. Subaru could go financially and spiritutally bankrupt trying to be BMW. I say "could" because it all depends on what Subaru means or what metric Subaru has set for being like BMW in finve years. We are all reacting to what we think the press statement meant about being like BMW and do not know exact std set. If being like BMW means being recognized as the best built, best performing, driver oriented car in Subys niche market, with upscale packages, that may be a realistic goal. If like you mentioned, Suby tries to emulate BMW/Audi with a luxo sedan and overweight, monster SUV etc., they are doomed. I am betting that Subaru intends to do Audi like image building(remember 60 minutes Audi attack) to increase brand awareness and reset higher market position so they can send more people to dealers and sell more Ltd models and LL Beans. I think Suby will be very happy with more unit sales, higher prices and a modestly expanded mkt share. It will be fun to watch this unfold. The print and TV adverts, tip of iceberg, are very interesting. Can't wait to see how they back all this up. New GT is a good start.

[scubie02]

I don't think subaru should necessarily shoot for MB, but Infiniti or Acura seem like they are within shot to me to some degree. And it would take time for subie to move upscale, but its not impossible. I'm just not sure they;d ever move into MB turf. But traditional views do change over time, albeit slowly. Traditionally to many people Audi was never seen on the same level as BMW/MB, and I think by many stil isn't. They had fwd cars that were rebadged and upscale VW's. But now after time and decent interiors and more quattro models at least, to some people anyway they have more prestige. But traditionally to many they had more of an acura image--nice fwd more affordable alternatives. Hell, even BMW wasn't really seen as the equal to MB traditionally to many people, which is why they carved out somewhat of an individial niche by being the "more sporty flavored" german car. Lets face it, BMW interiors are nothing great. They had to find their niche. Lexus has done a good job of moving towards MB, since their cars take more of a MB approach--luxo emphasis over sport. And they are reliable to boot. Infiniti shoots for BMW with the performance but not as nice maybe emphasis, and Acura shoots more for Audi since they are fwd, though as with Lexus Acura is the Audi with fwd, great interiors, but some reliability thrown in. That sort of doesn't leave as much for Subaru. Each othe the german brands has their japanese emulator wanting to displace them, and they are doing better and better jobs (particularly Lexus). But subaru does have its place and CAN move upscale to some degree. Like I said, in my area Subaru alrwady has some respect--many of the upper crust types drive Subaru's, and even more would if they moved upscale a bit--Audi quattro's are also poplar, though not as much so as subaru's because of reliability. If the Legacy goes a bit more upscale, as it is, it will definitely steal Audi sals here from those who want more reliability but weren't willing to settle for the former pedestrain look of the legacy. I think the new Legacy is definitely poised to steal sales though from VW and Audi quattro's here.

[jk]

re audi: who among you remembers the "unintended acceleration" flap? audis supposedly developed minds of their own and drove ahead through people's garages, etc without human intervention. it was all nonsense, but audi's reputation was in the toilet and for a while audi's were a real value deal, because they couldn't raise their prices. they've come a long way out of that hole, but that journey shows what can be done. i could afford a more expensive car than a subaru, i suppose, but it's not WORTH it for me, when i can get performance and reliability at subaru prices. i own 2 wrx's, a wagon for my wife, a sedan for me, and they're fun, reliable, and get me home in the snow. a legacy would offer the same benefits with more comfort, quiet and room. what's not to like? (i wouldn't be considering a legacy if not for the turbo.) i think there's a niche for a vehicle with those qualities. the bmw or audi that i might prefer, the 330xi or the s4 simply aren't worth the extra bucks.

[Throttlejockey]

[quote name='jk']re audi: who among you remembers the "unintended acceleration" flap? audis supposedly developed minds of their own and drove ahead through people's garages, etc without human intervention.[/quote] Funny you should mention that. I had an 84 Audi 5000 and didn't manage to have any problems with mine. The gas pedal was so close to the brake I can see how it happened. Through the years I has an Audi 100 after that and recently got rid of my 99 A6 Quattro. The Audi interior was nice, auto up, down windows and rear heated seats. It was a beautiful car but it was a sled and didn't handle well at all. The A6 was the only one that didn't have any electrical issues when I got rid of it. The other 2 always had some king of quirk though. I also had a 93 Acura Vigor that was an excellent car that i bought off lease, that was a nice car and i sold it with 135,000 miles on it and it ran like the day I bought it. The GT doesn't have all the foo-foo things my A6 did, but the fit and finish is just as good, as far as I'm concerned.

[scubie02]

[quote name='jk'] i could afford a more expensive car than a subaru, i suppose, but it's not WORTH it for me, when i can get performance and reliability at subaru prices. i own 2 wrx's, a wagon for my wife, a sedan for me, and they're fun, reliable, and get me home in the snow. a legacy would offer the same benefits with more comfort, quiet and room. what's not to like? (i wouldn't be considering a legacy if not for the turbo.) i think there's a niche for a vehicle with those qualities. the bmw or audi that i might prefer, the 330xi or the s4 simply aren't worth the extra bucks.[/quote] Yeah, I sort of had the same experience. When I bought my wrx I had actually been shopping BMW 3 series, MB c class, etc. Wanted a small sporty upscale sedan. But I stopped at a subaru dealer just for the heck of it one day to try out the then new (for us) wrx, just because I had heard so much about it over the years. No, getting in the interior wasn't as nice as the Mercedes (though to me BMW interiors have never been so hot either--"leatherette"? I said to the guy "leatherette--that would be like what, pleather? You're saying for $35k I'm getting vinyl? Funny, I've been buying cars long enough to remember when they started coming with cloth and it was a big step up from vinyl...") anyway, the interior wasn't as nice, but we started it it up and took it on out...then I hit the accelerator and got the big grin. I took it up some hills and through some twisties and in a somewhat incredulous manner said to my gf "is it just me, or is this thing much faster and has nicer seats than the other ones we just drove...", and she enthusiastically agreed. When I saw I could get that level of performance for that much cheaper I bought the wrx on a whim. Then I had the awd through a few winters. Then the new GT came out and I had a chance to get the performance plus a bit more of the upscale sedan I had originally been looking for, and its awfully hard for me to justify spending the money on a BMW to get a slower car for the money wth vinyl seats that's going to suck in the winter... Now thats not really knocking those cars--if I had all the money in the world and had multiple vehicles and such to drive at different times of years then I'd love to have some of those other cars, even if they were a bit frivolous. But in the real world my subaru is a great choice.