Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-2

[NiteOwl561]

Need to finalize my turbo selection. Sure the answers are out there somewhere, but haven't had luck finding them, so a couple of questions:

 

My Car: 05 LGT 5MT - Catless Up, Catted DP, after market CBE, stock intake box with performance filter, Walbro 255LPH, OEM injectors, EBCS, stock TMIC.

 

Car is a daily driver, looking for spirited drive, will not be doing track days and no drag strips.

 

1) BNR EVO III 16G compared to a 16G XT. What are the differences?

2) BNR 18G v BNR HTA68 (I understand stock injectors need upgraded). Will the EBCS and a pro-tune be enough to off set the spool lag, or better to stay 16G, for the type of driving experience I'm looking for.

 

Thanks, hopefully Bryan from BNR can weigh in with his vast experience. I've read a lot of good things regarding the quality and dependability of the BNR Turbos.

[mmmmspecb]

Need to finalize my turbo selection. Sure the answers are out there somewhere, but haven't had luck finding them, so a couple of questions:

 

My Car: 05 LGT 5MT - Catless Up, Catted DP, after market CBE, stock intake box with performance filter, Walbro 255LPH, OEM injectors, EBCS, stock TMIC.

 

Car is a daily driver, looking for spirited drive, will not be doing track days and no drag strips.

 

1) BNR EVO III 16G compared to a 16G XT. What are the differences?

2) BNR 18G v BNR HTA68 (I understand stock injectors need upgraded). Will the EBCS and a pro-tune be enough to off set the spool lag, or better to stay 16G, for the type of driving experience I'm looking for.

 

Thanks, hopefully Bryan from BNR can weigh in with his vast experience. I've read a lot of good things regarding the quality and dependability of the BNR Turbos.

 

16G. On stock injectors this would be the only choice.

[SBT]

Properly tuned the 68HTA is not going to lag much, if at all. Yes to > injectors, Yes to > FP, Yes to >IC, Yes to EBCS (but not required).

[LegacyGTurbo]

My turbo blew so I'm contemplating between getting a used VF46 or a brand new entry level BNR EVO 16G/TD05H.

 

(Thinking out-loud)

What advantage and disadvantage would i get if a used turbo versus a brand new turbo?

 

USED VF46

PRO

- Less expensive / Cheap

- If it doesn't blow up again, then it would be a good buy.

- This guy i know is selling his turbo for $350 for a used VF46. It had about 56K miles on it when he upgraded his turbo. I don't know if that's a good buy or not.

 

CON

- Don't know the longevity of it. I'm afraid it might blow up again considering turbos seem to blow around that range of miles.

- Don't know if the previous owner abused it or not

- No warranty. As Is

 

Brand new entry level BNR EVO 16G/TD05H - I'm assuming this will be a direct bolt on replacement of my VF40.

 

PRO

- Brand new. Nothing to worry about

- Warranty

- upgraded turbo with wastegate actuator

 

CONS

- $750 - a bit out of my budget but i might have to fork it.

 

Any thoughts? Help me make a better decision.

 

Thanks for reading.

[thefultonhow]

My turbo blew so I'm contemplating between getting a used VF46 or a brand new entry level BNR EVO 16G/TD05H.

 

(Thinking out-loud)

What advantage and disadvantage would i get if a used turbo versus a brand new turbo?

 

USED VF46

PRO

- Less expensive / Cheap

- If it doesn't blow up again, then it would be a good buy.

- This guy i know is selling his turbo for $350 for a used VF46. It had about 56K miles on it when he upgraded his turbo. I don't know if that's a good buy or not.

 

CON

- Don't know the longevity of it. I'm afraid it might blow up again considering turbos seem to blow around that range of miles.

- Don't know if the previous owner abused it or not

- No warranty. As Is

 

Brand new entry level BNR EVO 16G/TD05H - I'm assuming this will be a direct bolt on replacement of my VF40.

 

PRO

- Brand new. Nothing to worry about

- Warranty

- upgraded turbo with wastegate actuator

 

CONS

- $750 - a bit out of my budget but i might have to fork it.

 

Any thoughts? Help me make a better decision.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

You will need an oil line and a tune for the 16G too. Keep those expenses in mind.

[LegacyGTurbo]

You will need an oil line and a tune for the 16G too. Keep those expenses in mind.

 

How much is that gonna cost?

 

Sorry guys, i'm not so much of a Tech Head like some of you guys are. I'm just a average joe with a Subaru Wagon with a turbo charger. I'm not into all these crazy upgrades that you guys do so i do apologize if Im such a NOOB.

[thefultonhow]

How much is that gonna cost?

 

Sorry guys, i'm not so much of a Tech Head like some of you guys are. I'm just a average joe with a Subaru Wagon with a turbo charger. I'm not into all these crazy upgrades that you guys do so i do apologize if Im such a NOOB.

 

Oil line is $175. Tune could be as low as $175 or as high as $1200, depending on how you do it. The easiest way is to get a dyno tune with a Cobb AccessPort -- that's the $1200 option (although it is possible to do it for $800ish, depending on the kind of deals you can score). The cheapest way is to use your own laptop and a VAG-COM cable off eBay to do an e-tune with someone like Infamous1 or Cryo, but if you say you are not a "tech head," that may not be the best option.

[LegacyGTurbo]

Will This turbo work for my Wagon to replace my VF40?

 

Source Link: http://www.fastwayracer.com/Forced-Induction-Turbo-Chargers/c1_2/p2637/Universal-GT2876R-Turbo-Charger/product_info.html

 

Specs:

 

Brand new GT2876R turbo charger.Max up to 480HP.

Inlet: 4.0 Inch.

Outlet: 2.5 Inch.

Turbine Flange: T25 Flange.

Downpipe Flange: T25 5 Bolts Flange.

Type of Bearing: Wet Float Bearings.

Cooling Type: Water and oil cooled only.

Exhaust Trim: .86AR.

Turbine Wheel Diameter: 46.75MM/53.80MM.

Compressor Trim: .70AR.

Compressor Wheel Diameter: 57.89MM/72.95MM.

Instruction is not included. Professional installation is highly recommended!

Item exactly the same as picture shown.

http://www.fastwayracer.com/images/TC-GT2876R.jpg

 

Which one of these turbos will be a good stock OEM replacement for my VF40?

http://www.fastwayracer.com/Forced-Induction-Turbo-Chargers/c1_2/index.html

 

And yes, I already saw this thread. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bolt-up-turbocharger-upgrade-vol-1-closed-119177.html

 

But it doesn't give me any other options besides BNR turbos.

 

Any suggestions besides BNR turbos that would bolt up directly w/o any further upgrades?

[thefultonhow]

You're going from the frying pan to the fire here. Here are your options, in increasing order of cost:

 

1. Rebuilt VF40. You can get one with a 0 mile CHRA from someone out west, but I don't remember who off the top of my head.

2. VF52. Stock turbo in the 09+ WRX. Requires the tune, but not the oil line. This can actually be more expensive than 3 if you get a new one ($1100).

3. 16G (BNR or otherwise). Uses stock housing and stock fueling. Requires tune and oil line.

4. Bigger stock housing turbo (e.g. BNR 18G, BNR 20G, BNR HTA68). Requires injectors, fuel pump, probably exhaust mods and intercooler to do it right, tune, oil line, etc.

5. The turbo you posted. Requires high-dollar exhaust parts, high-dollar rotated intake, custom FMIC, etc. as well as everything listed above.

6. Bigger rotated turbo. Same deal as 5, but more power.

[LegacyGTurbo]

Oil line is $175. Tune could be as low as $175 or as high as $1200, depending on how you do it. The easiest way is to get a dyno tune with a Cobb AccessPort -- that's the $1200 option (although it is possible to do it for $800ish, depending on the kind of deals you can score). The cheapest way is to use your own laptop and a VAG-COM cable off eBay to do an e-tune with someone like Infamous1 or Cryo, but if you say you are not a "tech head," that may not be the best option.

 

I probably have missed this part somewhere while reading.... but why would i need a new oil line? Can't i just use the old one?

 

And it's about $800 just to do a stock tune? Seriously?

I was thinking it was a swap turbo for turbo and get back on the road.

[LegacyGTurbo]

You're going from the frying pan to the fire here. Here are your options, in increasing order of cost:

 

1. Rebuilt VF40. You can get one with a 0 mile CHRA from someone out west, but I don't remember who off the top of my head.

2. VF52. Stock turbo in the 09+ WRX. Requires the tune, but not the oil line. This can actually be more expensive than 3 if you get a new one ($1100).

3. 16G (BNR or otherwise). Uses stock housing and stock fueling. Requires tune and oil line.

4. Bigger stock housing turbo (e.g. BNR 18G, BNR 20G, BNR HTA68). Requires injectors, fuel pump, probably exhaust mods and intercooler to do it right, tune, oil line, etc.

5. The turbo you posted. Requires high-dollar exhaust parts, high-dollar rotated intake, custom FMIC, etc. as well as everything listed above.

6. Bigger rotated turbo. Same deal as 5, but more power.

 

 

Hmm then where and how can i get a rebuilt VF40 with ZERO miles on it? I hope it's not gonna cost an arm and leg hahaha....

 

Like i posted earlier, found a USED VF46 for $350 but it's a risk not knowing what the previous user has done with it.

 

With that said, something tells me that i SHOULD buy a New or Rebuilt/Remanufactured turbo charger that will bolt up easily w/o any further Modifications. I just want to get back on the road again so that i don't have to rely on public transportation. hahaha

[thefultonhow]

I probably have missed this part somewhere while reading.... but why would i need a new oil line? Can't i just use the old one?

 

The stock oil line does not flow enough oil to properly lubricate the MHI CHRAs that BNR uses.

 

And it's about $800 just to do a stock tune? Seriously?

I was thinking it was a swap turbo for turbo and get back on the road.

 

As I said, there are less-expensive options. E-tune with open-source is the least expensive at $175, but requires a bit of technical aptitude, and a laptop with a working battery, and a fair amount of time. The $800-1200 is for a dyno tune with a Cobb AP.

 

Hmm then where and how can i get a rebuilt VF40 with ZERO miles on it? I hope it's not gonna cost an arm and leg hahaha....

 

I think this is the site I was thinking of:

 

http://www.6starspeed.com/reihivftusul.html

 

 

With that said, something tells me that i SHOULD buy a New or Rebuilt/Remanufactured turbo charger that will bolt up easily w/o any further Modifications. I just want to get back on the road again so that i don't have to rely on public transportation. hahaha

 

If your turbo blew, don't forget to replace the oil cooler (the piece the oil filter screws onto). Also, did you drive on the blown turbo at all? If so, you may want to start setting aside funds for an engine rebuild (although engine failure is not guaranteed if you didn't drive on it more than a few miles).

[LegacyGTurbo]

The stock oil line does not flow enough oil to properly lubricate the MHI CHRAs that BNR uses.

 

 

 

As I said, there are less-expensive options. E-tune with open-source is the least expensive at $175, but requires a bit of technical aptitude, and a laptop with a working battery, and a fair amount of time. The $800-1200 is for a dyno tune with a Cobb AP.

 

 

 

I think this is the site I was thinking of:

 

http://www.6starspeed.com/reihivftusul.html

 

 

 

 

If your turbo blew, don't forget to replace the oil cooler (the piece the oil filter screws onto). Also, did you drive on the blown turbo at all? If so, you may want to start setting aside funds for an engine rebuild (although engine failure is not guaranteed if you didn't drive on it more than a few miles).

 

 

Unfortunately i did drive it but it wasn't too long and too far. I'd say i probably drove it for about an hour. I was lucky i made it home safely. But i'm not sure what the condition of the engine is as of right now. How do i check it to make sure it's still good before i install the new turbo?

 

I was able to start and run the engine the next day so I'm hoping that the engine is still ok.

 

I was able to safely remove the turbo and was able to start the engine just to check. I didn't run it long though. Just for a few seconds just to see how it sounded like.

 

I think this is the site I was thinking of:

 

http://www.6starspeed.com/reihivftusul.html

 

I just called them and they only service Non Broken turbo Shafts. And they do not have any remanufactured VF40/46s available.

 

If your turbo blew, don't forget to replace the oil cooler (the piece the oil filter screws onto).

 

how do i replace that?

 

There will be more questions to come along so please be patient with me.

 

But so far, I appreciate all the information so far.

 

Thank You

[thefultonhow]

Unfortunately i did drive it but it wasn't too long and too far. I'd say i probably drove it for about an hour. I was lucky i made it home safely. But i'm not sure what the condition of the engine is as of right now. How do i check it to make sure it's still good before i install the new turbo?

 

I was able to start and run the engine the next day so I'm hoping that the engine is still ok.

 

I was able to safely remove the turbo and was able to start the engine just to check. I didn't run it long though. Just for a few seconds just to see how it sounded like.

 

An HOUR? Good luck with that. Start saving for a rebuild.

[LegacyGTurbo]

An HOUR? Good luck with that. Start saving for a rebuild.

 

Ok so i should haven't have done that. My bad. But How do i check it to make sure it's still good before i install the new turbo?

[thefultonhow]

Ok so i should haven't have done that. My bad. But How do i check it to make sure it's still good before i install the new turbo?

 

You could theoretically drop the oil pan and check whether there are any shavings in there. Maybe take off the valve covers and check for scoring on the cams too. Neither one of those is an easy task, though, and if not put back together right, will result in oil leaks.

 

Also, make sure you clean the OCVs (on top of the heads at the front corners of the engine) and remove the banjo bolt filter.

[islandborn]

Cobb themselves charge about $400 for a tune....

[thefultonhow]

Cobb themselves charge about $400 for a tune....

 

In my area, IAG and Agile both charge $600 and require an AP. TurboXS charges $450 for an AP tune (I'm going there in 47.5 hours!) and more for open-source. Not sure how much Mach V charges. DPS does open-source road tunes, which I guess is an option if you're on a budget.

[LegacyGTurbo]

You could theoretically drop the oil pan and check whether there are any shavings in there. Maybe take off the valve covers and check for scoring on the cams too. Neither one of those is an easy task, though, and if not put back together right, will result in oil leaks.

 

Also, make sure you clean the OCVs (on top of the heads at the front corners of the engine) and remove the banjo bolt filter.

 

I'm assume dropping the oil pan and check for any shavings in there would be the easiest of the 3 huh.

[thefultonhow]

I'm assume dropping the oil pan and check for any shavings in there would be the easiest of the 3 huh.

 

Three? I only mentioned two things -- oil pan and valve covers/cams. You want to clean the OCVs, replace the oil cooler, and remove the banjo bolt filter no matter what.

[m sprank]

Pull the pan and clean it. Pull the OCV's and clean them. Pull the banjo bolt filter and clean int (does not have to be removed). Highly unlikely you would find anything under the valve covers, but you can always pull those and clean them too. Replace the oil cooler. Flush out the motor with at least 15qtl of fresh oil. Then you get to pray that there is no internal damage and no left over metal debris. Edited May 1, 2013 by m sprank

[doccrowley]

15 gallon oil flush? did you mean 15 quart flush?

[LegacyGTurbo]

15 gallon oil flush? did you mean 15 quart flush?

 

hahha... wow that's a lot of Oil to put in. Can the engine even hold that much oil? haha....

 

Speaking of the Banjo bolt... i just pulled it out and this is what it looks like. Do you guys think this is clean or should i replace it anyway?

 

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q174/truthyaj/Subaru%20Legacy%20Issues/banjobolt1_zpscef06939.jpg

 

I called and talked to Bryan at BNR and she said that i should replace the OCV. But here ya said

 

Pull the OCV's and clean them.

[thefultonhow]

hahha... wow that's a lot of Oil to put in. Can the engine even hold that much oil? haha....

 

Oil capacity is approximately one gallon (4.2 qts, to be exact). So 15 gallons is 14-15 oil changes.

 

I can't tell whether that's a lot of small particles on the banjo bolt filter, or whether it's clear and that's just oil.

[grovlet]

You could theoretically drop the oil pan and check whether there are any shavings in there. Maybe take off the valve covers and check for scoring on the cams too. Neither one of those is an easy task, though, and if not put back together right, will result in oil leaks.

 

Also, make sure you clean the OCVs (on top of the heads at the front corners of the engine) and remove the banjo bolt filter.

 

And FYI - If you took it extremely easy on that 1 hour ride you MAY be OK....

 

My 1st Turbo went south in NJ and I drove it back to CT without ever boosting more than 2 PSI and there were no engine issues.... 2nd the car was shut down immediately....

 

But you definitely need to at least pull the oil pan and inspect for metal shavings (at a minimum)

 

And I feel like my saving grace is that I run Amsoil, there's less risk if you are running a good synthetic:p

 

It's really car/case specific if the Turbo takes out the engine, but there is some hope:redface: