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Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-2


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At long last my shelf queen 16g is on the car. :) Took over-advance CEL's and discovery that the shaft on the turbo on the car was starting to loosen up (later discovered stuck-open wastegate) to motivate me to end the 2+ year procrastination. :icon_neut Now on to the tuning.
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kk another tuner was tryin to tell me that 1000cc's were needed lol n I def thought 850s were fine. with my DW65 pump ya?

 

Just a thought... for some odd reason 850s (well, the IDs) are often more expensive than the 1000s....

 

My tuner (Cobb) recommended 1000s simply because I'd never have to worry again if a bigger future build or E85 came into the picture. Yes, its overkill but if its basically the same price, actually cheaper, why not just put them in?

 

That was my thinking anyways....:)

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so people are actually running stock fueling on the 16g's? That seems crazy to me.

 

Anyone have any insight on power/efficiency with a stock fueled 16g vs 650cc or 740cc and a pump? I have to image there is a noticeable difference...

You will have to turn the boost down a tiny bit at the very top-end with stock fuel, but it's only past 6k you'll notice this. With just an STi pump I can run 16.5psi at redline and keep to 11:1 AFR on the coldest days. Yes, I'm at 96 or 97% IDC but with enough fuel pressure to back the injectors up and a WBO2 to confirm, this is quite safe. I can tell you that even with a very efficient intercooler it is not worth increasing boost to even 17psi as compressor efficiency is really dropping off there.

If you have a stock pump you have to taper more as it can't hold line pressure steady at high revs / IDCs. You need a WBO2 to confirm your actual AFRs and you want to have a good MAF scaling. The easy way is to throw more money at it and get the injectors, but it isn't necessary and IMO not worth it.

Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs.
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Good to know ^^^

We have 2 or 3 of the BNR EVO3 16g's going into SH9 Foresters over here in Oz and only running DW65C fuel pump with stock injectors for fuelling (for now :lol:). Will let you know how we go!

Just be sure to confirm AFR and rescale the MAF sensor properly. The stock MAF scaling will have you running quite rich up top like that.

Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs.
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Thanks again fahr_side. I have WB02 so can keep a close eye on things while driving and log the data also for MAF scaling with my tuner. Will be sure to carefully creep up to the top end with a few tune revisions. Long term plans are for larger injectors and E85 but not until I can afford to be replacing the OEM clutch!
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I have finished the install of (Infamous') IP&T's Turbo Oil Supply Line Filter Kit on my '10 LGT w/BNR TD05H/20g. This kit was developed for the 4th Gens, so I had to change up a few things, from the standard kit, to adapt it to the 5th Gen turbo setup.

 

I used (2) two 16" oil lines and made it work, along with some stainless bolts and silicone covered straps.

 

Thought this might be helpful for anyone going down a similar path. ;)

Turbo_OLFK0.jpg.90e763fffbbd75241fefa7b708944122.jpg

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Turbo_OLFK8.jpg.8a3201273eaacbdc05ad579506961491.jpg

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By God its a sticky now! Thats big time :D.

 

Thanks for all the support everyone! Let me know if I can assist in your turbocharger needs!

 

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

www.BNRsupercars.com

 

Bryan (or anyone else for that matter), have you seen high EGT's on the TD05-20g LGT setups?

 

I ran a TD05-20g on my STi swapped time-trials WRX for a while years ago, and it was an incredible blend of low-lag and high output, but on long pulls I'd see 1800+F EGTs. During long track sessions, it was hot enough that stuff like the radiator fan housings and plastic timing covers on the motor were melting. :lol:

 

A friend of mine more recently ran the same turbo on his STi for autocross. Again, it was a great blend of spool and power, but the small-ish exhaust housing apparently lends to high EGTs... he eventually decided just to got back to stage 2 on his stock STi turbo due to the high temps and a fuel pump issue he no longer wanted to try to solve.

 

At the time, we didn't realize that the EGTs were just a side effect of the particular turbo, but when my friend sent off his request for an E-tune to Clark Turner for a TD05-20g map, Clark's response was "whoa, that turbo is going to have high ETGs!".

 

I'm wondering if the LGT style TD05-20g turbo will have the same temperature issues as the WRX/STi style turbo. A 20g is likely larger than I want for my outback, but knowing how "in the sweet spot" that turbo was for making early torque without giving up tons up top, I might consider it if doesn't exhibit the same EGT issues we noticed on the other cars.

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Depends on the exhaust housing. TD05H-20G really wants an 8cm2 housing on an EJ25*.
Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs.
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I have finished the install of (Infamous') IP&T's Turbo Oil Supply Line Filter Kit on my '10 LGT w/BNR TD05H/20g. This kit was developed for the 4th Gens, so I had to change up a few things, from the standard kit, to adapt it to the 5th Gen turbo setup

From the looks of your pictures there's been some significant design changes between the 4th and 5th gen as relates to the accessibility of some of the turbo fittings such as the oil return line. Even though not applicable to my situation I found your information interesting and I'm sure the 5th gen folks will find it very helpful.

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I have finished the install of (Infamous') IP&T's Turbo Oil Supply Line Filter Kit on my '10 LGT w/BNR TD05H/20g. This kit was developed for the 4th Gens, so I had to change up a few things, from the standard kit, to adapt it to the 5th Gen turbo setup.

 

I used (2) two 16" oil lines and made it work, along with some stainless bolts and silicone covered straps.

 

Thought this might be helpful for anyone going down a similar path. ;)

 

Were you seeing oil starvation issues or something else which led you to upgrade the line or was this just for piece of mind?

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Were you seeing oil starvation issues or something else which led you to upgrade the line or was this just for piece of mind?

 

Bryan requires that you use an aftermarket filtered oil line with all of his turbos in order for him to honor the warranty.

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Bryan requires that you use an aftermarket filtered oil line with all of his turbos in order for him to honor the warranty.

Do the newer cars even have the same problems as the older cars with the turbo feed line clogging? Seems like a silly requirement if the 2010+ cars have a completely redesigned feed line, especially if there's no bolt on filtered feed line available yet in the aftermarket. Denying warranty coverage to someone who's unwilling or unable to reengineer the existing line kit to fit a newer car sounds a little harsh.

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Were you seeing oil starvation issues or something else which led you to upgrade the line or was this just for piece of mind?

 

No starvation issues.

 

Found some excessive radial end play in the turbo journal bearings after only 600 miles on the turbo, 500 were clutch break-in period (no flogging or boost), 100 were to/from and inclusive of my dyno tune session.

 

:iam::eek:

 

Sent turbo back to Bryan @ BNR for inspection, and he found the journal bearings had been contaminated and was the cause of the issue. Turbo has been returned to pristine fresh condition.

 

So, to answer your question ... I had been debating about upgrading the turbo oil line and having an easily accessible inline turbo oil filter, so I took the opportunity to modify a kit that Mike S had developed for the 4th Gens, and made it work on the my 5th Gen, while I was putting things back together.

 

Bryan (BNR) and Mike Sprank (Infamous) have recommended this type of oil line/filter configuration on turbo upgrades for years, especially for those customers that had suffered turbo failures. ;)

 

 

Bryan requires that you use an aftermarket filtered oil line with all of his turbos in order for him to honor the warranty.

 

^ Bryan has seen his share of turbos that have met their demise over oil starvation and contamination issues ... it makes sense.

 

Sounds reasonable to me. Who else warranties aftermarket big turbos?

 

^ I agree... just good business practice.

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It would be if he weren't in the business of aftermarket go-fast mods. Either you're willing to make sure the component is operating in an optimal environment or you can deal with it when it if it goes boom.

 

Sounds reasonable to me. Who else warranties aftermarket big turbos?

If I were in that business, I wouldn't warranty anything that requires the layman to engineer and fabricate an oil line filter kit based on adapting another kit. Either require a specific kit, warranty it anyway (because perhaps the newer cars don't have the oil starvation issues that the older cars have?), or say "sorry, no warranty until someone comes out with a good 2010+ line kit".

 

I'd hate to see people that aren't comfortable or capable trying to build their own oil feed line just to get a warranty if the risk of screwing up the turbo because the line isn't right is higher than the risk of using the OEM line.

 

Again, it comes back to the quality of the OEM line on the 2010s. I haven't been paying attention since I've got a 2009... but I haven't heard of the newer cars having turbo failures. In fact, I haven't heard of frequent issues since the switch to the vf46 in 2008, compared to the nightmare people have with the vf40s. Is the oil line really something people with newer cars should be concerned about? Sure, it's a good idea to have a nice high-flow serviceable in-line filter on any turbo... but is it as risky on the gen5 cars as it is on the gen4?

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You're right. It would make more sense for him to offer no warranty at all from a business perspective. Thankfully he is willing to offer irrational goodwill to customers.

 

Nobody knows about risks for the 5th gen. Hardly any aftermarket turbos installed anywhere. I can count the ones I know of on one hand and still have enough fingers left over to get myself in trouble in a few different ways. Fewer still that have hit 100k+ on a stock turbo.

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20LEGGY10 is at 90k and will be there soon.

GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold

GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold

GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold

 

Stapp's Law: “The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle.”

 

"Simple incompetence is a far more sinister force in the world than evil intent."

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