Turbo failure wiki

[iamtheTrav]

so, long time lurker/first time poster. i'm the "proud" owner a of a 05 outback xt with a blown turbo. it blew during a road trip. i took it to a local shop in the middle of kentucky where it broke down, they claimed to know how to fix it. they blew a second turbo. so from both turbos blowing metal into the engine a subaru dealership told me that the car needs a new engine block/turbo/whatever else gets screwed up when this happens and quoted me like 6k to fix it. i still owe 9k on this car. they offered me 1k if i traded the car in and bought a new one from them. not really sure what i should do. i'm currently 300 miles away from the car and wasn't sure if i should get it towed here and looked at by a local shop. should i unload the car and try to absorb what i owe on the loan with savings/trading in our second paid off car. i'm over my head here and was hoping for some advice.

[boxkita]

so, long time lurker/first time poster. i'm the "proud" owner a of a 05 outback xt with a blown turbo. it blew during a road trip. i took it to a local shop in the middle of kentucky where it broke down, they claimed to know how to fix it. they blew a second turbo. so from both turbos blowing metal into the engine a subaru dealership told me that the car needs a new engine block/turbo/whatever else gets screwed up when this happens and quoted me like 6k to fix it. i still owe 9k on this car. they offered me 1k if i traded the car in and bought a new one from them. not really sure what i should do. i'm currently 300 miles away from the car and wasn't sure if i should get it towed here and looked at by a local shop. should i unload the car and try to absorb what i owe on the loan with savings/trading in our second paid off car. i'm over my head here and was hoping for some advice.

 

Yikes!

 

The 6k quote for a new engine is in the ballpark. The question being do you trust them? Is there a shop you trust more at home?

[ipekur]

There are a lot of options questions you should ask.

 

For one maybe 6k for a brand new engine is Ok price I would not know, but you can definitely get a rebuilt for half the price.

Another option to rebuilt yours (if possible).

 

So that bring me to the questions you need to ask/answer:

What do yo mean under "blow turbo"? did the bearing actually broke apart and metal parts get sucked in the oil, or it did not go that far? For the second turbo, what turbo did they put in?

Did dealership find metal particles in the oil?

Does engine run or it seized? (If it run, it possibly could be flushed, oil coolers, collectors can be replaced)

If it run it could be rebuilt (labor intensive but still not 6K!)

 

How many miles are on the car? what is the general condition on it (I assume since you payed at least 9K for it, it is in good condition)

 

The bottom line is that there are cheaper options that 6K for the new engine.

[turboconcepts]

so, long time lurker/first time poster. i'm the "proud" owner a of a 05 outback xt with a blown turbo. it blew during a road trip. i took it to a local shop in the middle of kentucky where it broke down, they claimed to know how to fix it. they blew a second turbo. so from both turbos blowing metal into the engine a subaru dealership told me that the car needs a new engine block/turbo/whatever else gets screwed up when this happens and quoted me like 6k to fix it. i still owe 9k on this car. they offered me 1k if i traded the car in and bought a new one from them. not really sure what i should do. i'm currently 300 miles away from the car and wasn't sure if i should get it towed here and looked at by a local shop. should i unload the car and try to absorb what i owe on the loan with savings/trading in our second paid off car. i'm over my head here and was hoping for some advice.

 

It's most likely the oil feed system, the mesh filters in the banjos, or the itsy bitty tiny banjo bolt hole that needs clocked oh so perfect within the fitting to allow oil flow. Any and all of these can get clogged with sludge. And you have to watch for or cracked hard line under the intake manifold. I'm not exaggerating 9/10 customers who buy replacement Subaru turbos from us and don't replace the whole oil feed system have their new turbo blow within 50 miles after startup. 10/10 customers who install a new (or our upgrade) oil supply system are fine. That is the Achilles Heal of these AVCS systems. Not to say you engine isn't bad, but the likely culprit when a turbo goes down, then the next one goes down, is clogged oil supply.

[SBT]

My engine is at 156K right now and it still has the original turbo feed system, though I did replace the VF40 @83K with a VF46 @10K when the wastegate arm bushing on the VF40 borked during a coast-to-coast trip. 3750 max OCIs with Valvoline 5w30 dino from day 1 and always Tokyo Roki "black" oil filters until 145K miles when I changed to 10W40 Valvoline Full Synthetic and recently to Rotella T6

 

Have never changed, removed, or even checked the banjo fittings. VF40 had no end nor side-to-side play and I'd fix the VF-40 bushing (several on here have done that) and reinstall it in a minute. VF-46 is likewise unfazed by the intervening stage-2 83K miles.

 

2008 and newer LGTs had a recall on the oiling system to the turbo, but that was due to a manufacturing defect in the weld at one of the turns. My VF46 came off a 2007 LGT, but I used the stock 2005 oil line feed, with the original BB filter in place and not touched.

 

iamthetrav - I would think long and hard about having the engine rebuilt, if there's no evidence of metal in the pan...and I'd have that checked by a trusted shop that's NOT invested in helping you buy a replacement car from them. Do a compression and leak-down test on the engine. If that's good, then pull the oil pan, and if there is minor metal as in "gold sheen", I'd clean the pan, replace, don't clean, the oil cooler, replace the banjo bolt filter, buy and install high-quality oil and filter (Mazda Tokyo Roki (MTR) - buy 3). Replace the turbo with an OEM VF40/46 replacement turbo and call it a day.

 

Run it for 50 miles, change the oil and use the 2nd MTR filter. Run it for 100, change the oil and use the 3rd MTR filter. Then do a 3K OCI with a good quality filter - MTRs exactly fit the oil filter specs for our engines. You're likely looking at ~$1-1.5K all-in to do that.

 

Once you're sure it's good, start working on your finances and figure out what you need to do to get yourself back on an even keel. By then it may make sense to sell the LGT or another of your cars.

Edited March 13, 2015 by SBT

[Inposibrew]

was there any size difference between the vf40 and the vf46

[Kevjohn]

was there any size difference between the vf40 and the vf46

 

 

From my understanding the housing is the same, here's what I found... http://pretuning.com/2012/06/ihi-vf40-and-vf46-turbo-comparison/

[turboconcepts]

Yep same turbine housing, different compressor side. Though note that on either of them the design and diameter of internal bearings and veining, and their turbine housings, aren't suited for getting pushed harder than regular daily driving, these things are already working as hard as they should just scooting to the grocery store, be careful driving em hard or upgrade to a larger-framed unit. Right now VF40 & 46 are the most commonly failing turbo we're seeing in the whole country.

[SBT]

Probably because they're on a lot of USDM Legacy GT, OBXT and FXT models and likely a few others that aren't widely published.

[CrowNaza86]

JmP6889928 also provides a great alternative/fix on the VF40/46. Upgraded internals which should ensure you're good on the reliability front.

 

PS- I am on original VF46 @73K...no play in wheel. That's with a 4k OCI on T6 and Tokyo Roki filters (mentioned by SBT)

Edited March 20, 2015 by CrowNaza86

[Kevjohn]

JmP6889928 also provides a great alternative/fix on the VF40/46. Upgraded internals which should ensure you're good on the reliability front.

 

PS- I am on original VF46 @73K...no play in wheel. That's with a 4k OCI on T6 and Tokyo Roki filters (mentioned by SBT)

 

 

What's the going rate for that?

[CrowNaza86]

What's the going rate for that?

 

Email him. It's very reasonable and you'll be investing in a much better turbo. I'll be utilizing his service when the time comes.

[ivonr]

Is the failure rate on a vf46 any less than a vf40? see less vf46's failing on here but that could be due to the fact that they are on younger LGT's (lower miles). Any thoughts?

 

im running the stock vf46 in my 08 w/54k miles and plan on removing banjo bolts / replacing oil pickup and going stage 2. REALLY dont want to replace the turbo if all seems well (will check for shaft play when DP is replaced for stage 2)...but also willing to do anything it takes to keep from destroying my engine in the future

[turboconcepts]

We see failed VF46 as often as VF40, under normal driving conditions they tend to last 5-7 years ... they are identical except for some compressor adjustments on the 46. Regarding changing the internals of these stock turbos, you'd need a totally different center section CHRA for those turbos to handle heavy foot driving. And plopping a bigger center section with bigger wheels into fitted end housings is an option, but the factory A/R ratios on stock those housings are designed for quick spool up with factory wheel specs, it'll choke at higher RPMs and cause back pressure if you have other mods.

[ivonr]

We see failed VF46 as often as VF40, under normal driving conditions they tend to last 5-7 years ... they are identical except for some compressor adjustments on the 46. Regarding changing the internals of these stock turbos, you'd need a totally different center section CHRA for those turbos to handle heavy foot driving. And plopping a bigger center section with bigger wheels into fitted end housings is an option, but the factory A/R ratios on stock those housings are designed for quick spool up with factory wheel specs, it'll choke at higher RPMs and cause back pressure if you have other mods.

 

...damnit. thank you for the wisdom though, guess its time to decide whether or not i want to roll the dice on my current turbo!

Edited April 17, 2015 by ivonr

[CrowNaza86]

The banjo bolts are fine on 08-09. They are rotated a different direction and don't encounter the same issues as 05-07(not as frequently anyway). My VF-46 is at 75k mi and going strong, just change your oil regularly and frequently enough to avoid having sludge accumulate in the piping.

 

Your VF-46 is fine...if you really are worried then replace the banjo bolt filters...just realize they are there for a reason and aren't a concern with perform proper maintenance.

Edited April 17, 2015 by CrowNaza86

[turboconcepts]

The banjo bolts are fine on 08-09. They are rotated a different direction and don't encounter the same issues as 05-07(not as frequently anyway). My VF-46 is at 75k mi and going strong, just change your oil regularly and frequently enough to avoid having sludge accumulate in the piping.

 

Your VF-46 is fine...if you really are worried then replace the banjo bolt filters...just realize they are there for a reason and aren't a concern with perform proper maintenance.

 

I mean the 46 is fine, and with regular oil changes and sane driving habits it should last up to 7 years/100k mi., but if you want more then you should go bigger (bigger wheels, housings, AND internals). These units wouldn't be by far our #1 reported failure if they were that good.

[HAMMER DOWN]

I mean the 46 is fine, and with regular oil changes and sane driving habits it should last up to 7 years/100k mi., but if you want more then you should go bigger (bigger wheels, housings, AND internals). These units wouldn't be by far our #1 reported failure if they were that good.

 

Mine seems to be holding up quite well. It see 6k+ shift & 18.5psi of boost, mutable times daily. It will be 10yrs. old in July & as over 272k on the original motor & vf-40 turbo.

 

LGT's gets towing, drag strip & 120 mile commute to work & back duties.

 

IMO, check you oil level often & top as needed. Use whatever oil & filter that will protect for the OCI's your running. OA's is the only way you know that your oil & filter is up for the challenge.

 

Banjo bolts history:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1326330&postcount=158

 

Oil history from day1:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3765146&postcount=54

 

Mike

[turboconcepts]

Mine seems to be holding up quite well. It see 6k+ shift & 18.5psi of boost, mutable times daily. It will be 10yrs. old in July & as over 272k on the original motor & vf-40 turbo.

 

LGT's gets towing, drag strip & 120 mile commute to work & back duties.

 

IMO, check you oil level often & top as needed. Use whatever oil & filter that will protect for the OCI's your running. OA's is the only way you know that your oil & filter is up for the challenge.

 

Banjo bolts history:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1326330&postcount=158

 

Oil history from day1:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3765146&postcount=54

 

Mike

 

Wow, that's amazing for any turbo to last that long, you must take incredible care of your vehicles.

[Markbo]

Hammer...what oil and filter do YOU use?

[HAMMER DOWN]

Hammer...what oil and filter do YOU use?

It's in my sig. below.

 

Filtration set-up:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/get-your-oil-filtration-down-2-microns-81741.html

[Markbo]

Totally missed it thanks. Impressive oiling system you have.

[schwinn]

Mine seems to be holding up quite well. It see 6k+ shift & 18.5psi of boost, mutable times daily. It will be 10yrs. old in July & as over 272k on the original motor & vf-40 turbo.

 

LGT's gets towing, drag strip & 120 mile commute to work & back duties.

 

IMO, check you oil level often & top as needed. Use whatever oil & filter that will protect for the OCI's your running. OA's is the only way you know that your oil & filter is up for the challenge.

 

Banjo bolts history:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1326330&postcount=158

 

Oil history from day1:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3765146&postcount=54

 

Mike

Impressive oil filter setup, indeed.

 

Mine isn't all that, but I'm still running my stock turbo on my 06, 140k miles on her now, stock oiling system (except for a replaced oil pickup). I use Rotella T6, Bosch oil filters (typically), and have done UOAs all along along with 6-10k OCIs. I'm running Stage2 as well, and go WOT as often as I feel like it (at least a few times a day, typically, getting on the highway).

 

Everything is going well, knock-on-wood!

[Scruit]

My turbo has been making funny noises recently. Invidia catless UP with temp probe.

 

First noise truned out to be the temp probe came loose, and I screwed that back in. I have not yet put the heat shield back on.

 

Second noise is a "hooo" sound when the turbo is under load - started afetr removing heat shield. No noise before, noticed noise as soon as I set off driving again. You have to specifically listen for it to hear it, but I can hear it. I currently suspect that the lack of heat shield is allowing a resonance / vibration to propagate through the DP. SOund comes from the entire underneath of the car, front to back.

 

I got P0011 and P0022 last week, but I've had those codes before when I go a few miles over the OCI, and an oil change always makes them go away for the duration of the OCI. My car tends to drink oil (1qt/1k miles) so it's generally fairly fresh because I'm topping it up all the time.

 

 

Plan:

 

- I have a new turbo/DP gasket - I will remove the DP and check the turbo shaft for play. Any play = new turbo before driving again.

 

- If turbo has no play then I'll check the banjo filter and clean or remove the filter element. I'm also going to check the banjos on the OCVs

- Recheck the bolts on the manifilold, UP, turbo and DP. Put the heat shield back on the turbo. Hopefully the noise goes away.

 

- Going to send the oil to Blackstone for an analysis - see if any wear materials noted.

 

Any more advice?

[turboconcepts]

My turbo has been making funny noises recently. Invidia catless UP with temp probe.

 

First noise truned out to be the temp probe came loose, and I screwed that back in. I have not yet put the heat shield back on.

 

Second noise is a "hooo" sound when the turbo is under load - started afetr removing heat shield. No noise before, noticed noise as soon as I set off driving again. You have to specifically listen for it to hear it, but I can hear it. I currently suspect that the lack of heat shield is allowing a resonance / vibration to propagate through the DP. SOund comes from the entire underneath of the car, front to back.

 

I got P0011 and P0022 last week, but I've had those codes before when I go a few miles over the OCI, and an oil change always makes them go away for the duration of the OCI. My car tends to drink oil (1qt/1k miles) so it's generally fairly fresh because I'm topping it up all the time.

 

 

Plan:

 

- I have a new turbo/DP gasket - I will remove the DP and check the turbo shaft for play. Any play = new turbo before driving again.

 

- If turbo has no play then I'll check the banjo filter and clean or remove the filter element. I'm also going to check the banjos on the OCVs

- Recheck the bolts on the manifilold, UP, turbo and DP. Put the heat shield back on the turbo. Hopefully the noise goes away.

 

- Going to send the oil to Blackstone for an analysis - see if any wear materials noted.

 

Any more advice?

 

 

Given that you're getting those AVCS-related trouble codes and getting a "hooo" sound from the turbo it sounds like an oil issue, either sludge, weak oil pump, or poor oil flow into the turbo. I'd fully change the oil and replace the oil feed system. Might be getting a clogged artery in the turbo oil feed system because if the turbo is getting under-oiled it can make that sound you described.