Valve Body Mods, Giant Leaps Forward!!!

[ChicagoSam]

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[ean611]

Just a note, 08's are very different than 05-07s.

 

The valve body has much less parts on it, and is heavily computer controlled. ClimberD still thinks he can make improvements, but it won't be as easy as we'd hoped.

[RIPjeep2002]

Damn technology.....

[ean611]

Damn technology.....

 

Thing is, it isn't all bad. If we had source code or other documentation of the TCU logic, we could just modify a few bits, and the shifting would tighten up.

 

The 08-09 is able to do much faster shifts, it's just programmed not to.

[RIPjeep2002]

Well someone needs to crack it then...

[ean611]

Well someone needs to crack it then...

 

Easier said than done....

[underground000]

working on cracking 05-07 TCU but I think it stopped

I think RIPJeep was not serious when he said crack it:lol:, unless someone else wants to try:iam:

[frank_ster]

Just a note, 08's are very different than 05-07s.

 

The valve body has much less parts on it, and is heavily computer controlled. ClimberD still thinks he can make improvements, but it won't be as easy as we'd hoped.

 

should be even easier to mod if its very heavily computer controlled.

[Horarik]

 

LGT 5eat car year? 05

IPT VB mod already performed? No

Are you willing to pay close to but less than IPT prices (perhaps again) for a proper shift kit modification performed by fellow 5eat performance enthusiast ClimberD himself? Once proven, yes

 

 

I would also be willing to drive down there from MN to get this done!

 

*Subscribed*

[ClimberDHexMods]

I'm fairly confident the 08/09 VB is not the big crazy redesign some are saying. It's just a simpler, better way to do things. Very logical. Putting the solenoids UNDER the valve body is a great idea, and allows there to be a lot less channeling in the VB. I am quite confident it won't be that hard to figure it out and make it work better mechanically. It's BS that it's leaps and bounds more sophisticated than the 05-07. The TCU is somewhat more developed, the VB is simpler, but not an actual reinvention of the VB wheel.

[YourConfused]

LGT 5eat car year? 07

IPT VB mod already performed? No

Are you willing to pay close to but less than IPT prices (perhaps again) for a proper shift kit modification performed by fellow 5eat performance enthusiast ClimberD himself? Sure, I need to visit a friend in Dallas anyway.

[ean611]

I'm fairly confident the 08/09 VB is not the big crazy redesign some are saying. It's just a simpler, better way to do things. Very logical. Putting the solenoids UNDER the valve body is a great idea, and allows there to be a lot less channeling in the VB. I am quite confident it won't be that hard to figure it out and make it work better mechanically. It's BS that it's leaps and bounds more sophisticated than the 05-07. The TCU is somewhat more developed, the VB is simpler, but not an actual reinvention of the VB wheel.

 

I believe you're right. Looking forward to your data when you pull one apart.

[itsme]

I must have missed your post about the turbo setup you are planning. DO NOT DO IT!!! I have worked with the turbo during testing and it will not be a good choice. Torque is what you want to test to see if the tranny will hold and a late spooling turbo won't do that. Our test car made 330whp on 91 cali pump gas and 400whp on e85 with only a HTA68 at 23psi. That turbo is overkill and even my custom built billet 20g can make @350whp on cali 91 pump gas. And that is @ 20psi. But, it spools around 3200 rpms and would have a better torque curve to test if the tranny will hold. I have sold close to 150 fmic over the last year and customers tell me about there setup a what power they are making with different setups.

 

That goes to the next problem with your planned setup. The tmic you are using. That will not help you in your testing. AVO has posted that their own tmic is only good for @ 320whp and then it becomes the bottleneck. I have seen the logs for that eBay TMIC and they are not great. You have to get a FMIC to test tranny to see if it will hold. Customers are reporting. @40whp and 60 lbs-ft of torque increase over their aftermarket tmic with my FMIC and a tune. So if you can wait about a month I will donate one of my FMIC to the cause. I have a new shipment coming in a few weeks. I'm putting on a JDM front end and I want all the pipes and core black so you don't see them through the openings. I will be taking the v. 1 kit off my car and replacing it with the all black kit. I can send it to you if you just pay the shipping that will be about $50 to you. Plus, it will help with the heatsoak you will be getting from now while you are testing as it gets hotter.

 

Last, don't use a MBC. You need to get an EBCS because it is much safer. If something goes wrong a MBC be able to cut the boost and you can blow your motor. They make tuning much easier and you can set to do what you want from your ecu.

 

So let me know what you think. I just want to help because I know what it's like to undertake some things like this. But, once you finish it feels great to see people using and enjoying something you have done. I'm a Subaru owner and I always want to help to improve our cars. Bryan

[ClimberDHexMods]

Bryan we have a deal regarding the FMIC My experience with the eBay DIY TMIC has been what you said. The eBay TMIC flows fine, but it does not cool anywhere as well as a FMIC, and it does heat soak when the car is stopped, as you said. Drives me crazy to need to do a slow lap to then be able to do a WOT pull, as has been the case for a long time. Wastes so much time when I run into a red light.

 

I realize that an MBC has no provision for boost cut, and that if IAM gets down around .3, I'll probably lose the engine with it. I only have the intention of using it temporarily, to save time. I would never use an MBC without also watching knock and timing very carefully, and I have spent a lot of time making sure my bases are covered. I realize historically an MBC gets a lot of people into trouble, but I also understand the reasons and ramifications. I have every intention of one day running my 3-port EBCS exclusively.

 

With regards to the turbo selection, you bring up an interesting point. My thoughts towards it are this: A TD06-20G 7cm and a stock location GT3071 8cm are not leaps and bounds far from each other. They are on adjacent rungs up the ladder of turbo size. I purposely bought the used Dom2.5 instead of a GT30 for this reason, as the GT3071 should move the curve only a few hundred rpm to the right. And the price was really good.

It was a power per dollar decision. The 20G was limited by the TMIC. Now that the FMIC is on the horizon, that changes things entirely. I have to re-think things. Your point actually makes me wonder if I should track down a cheap VF40, since stage 2 is most applicable to the customer pool on LegacyGT.com. I have to give it some thought... one consideration is line pressure is easy to "feel" through shift firmness. When modifying the valve body mechanically, you don't get to choose low-rpm vs high-rpm line pressure. You up the whole thing or lower the whole thing, and the TCU handles the details (which we have no influence over). It may be completely unnecessary to run a smaller turbo, as it may become very clear to me through the testing process how much line pressure I can get out of the system. If it become clear that I need that smaller turbo, I'll snatch one up right away. Conversely, the only thing I cannot confirm with a smaller turbo is how much holding power I'm getting out of the trans. We know from experience that even the most minimal of valve body mods, such as that from IPT, can give the 05-07 5eat enough line pressure to survive stage 2 for a super long time. Surpassing this level goes without question. On the flip side, the biggest turbo possible would be useful in finding a weakness, if there is one. I'll give it some thought, and I promise everyone I will do what is in the best interest of the product.

 

As a side note, if anyone out there does have a really big turbo, don't go WOT in 5th. Do it in 4th, and avoid shifting to 5th to accelerate at WOT until you hit 4th redline (though I don't recommend going that fast without experience). Your trans will thank you by lasting longer.

Edited May 15, 2011 by ClimberD@HexMods

[fishbone]

Yes, I would definitely keep 5th for WOT only when doing 140+ mph, which is totally safe AND legal

I pretty much regard 5th as a cruising gear and don't do anything else with it.

[dwolson2]

I don't seem to have enought road to get going that fast(empty road that is) so 5th isnt a problem for me

 

wait for it....

 

wait for it....

 

 

Where we're going we don't need roads....

 

[Tomkat1127]

Trying to find a way to trade up my 08 SWP LGT 5EAT with 16K for this 09 SWP Spec. B with 22K. I have been looking at online, if only this was there 2 months ago. I usually keep cars for years, 2 months would be a record for me. Gotta find a way to talk them down....

[ean611]

Trying to find a way to trade up my 08 SWP LGT 5EAT with 16K for this 09 SWP Spec. B with 22K. I have been looking at online, if only this was there 2 months ago. I usually keep cars for years, 2 months would be a record for me. Gotta find a way to talk them down....

 

Having swapped a Spec B suspension, albeit a JDM one into my car.....(along with STI pinks, sway bars)

 

Spec B handing is superb.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Yes, I would definitely keep 5th for WOT only when doing 140+ mph, which is totally safe AND legal

I pretty much regard 5th as a cruising gear and don't do anything else with it.

 

Yeah... I have to rethink the fairy tail of running the 5eat in the Texas mile. Something very serious would need to be done to not wear down 5th. I guess a little wear is fine, but don't really want to do another rebuild for a LONG time...

[frank_ster]

why are you worried about 5th gear ?

[cholmes1]

+1

[ClimberDHexMods]

Eh glad you made me look again. The wording on the Front Brake's page '5AT-6' threw me through a loop. I interpreted it as the Front Brake being a brake for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and separately for acceleration in 5th, but I read it again and it's just a brake... at least now that I look at it again, all it does is lock the front sun gear to the trans case. In 5th, the front and mid planets get locked together, and the front carrier spins really fast... so not sure how my front brake ended up the most burned up of all my clutch packs, and thus I am still worried. Though looking at the evidence, 3rd gear pulls are most likely what fried it

 

Way to do a 180 climberd...

[frank_ster]

yes because 5th actually seams like a tough gear. i pretty much only do pulls in 5th for my tuning its the only way i can load the engine for long enough.

 

edit

 

I was reading through the manual, the front brake is used for 5th gear exclusively! under acceleration ie if you never used engine braking the only wear to come to the front brake would be from 5th gear use.

 

how ever it is also used for 4-3 down shift,

 

but thing about automatic trannys thier holding capability is usually twice of what they can shift into.

 

so a gear that has a mush shift you would typically not shift into that gear under full power. but once into a gear go nuts.

Edited May 18, 2011 by frank_ster

[FrozenNorthLGT]

Subscribed...partly cause I love seeing people that were making a quick (and inflated) buck being ousted by the DIY crowd, partly cause if the future allows it I'd love to throw some more power at this car and actually play with it, and partly cause I dont think Ive ever read a thread by ClimberD and not learned something...(or at least made my brain hurt)

 

Keep up the good work, man...

[ClimberDHexMods]

yes because 5th actually seams like a tough gear. i pretty much only do pulls in 5th for my tuning its the only way i can load the engine for long enough.

 

edit

 

I was reading through the manual, the front brake is used for 5th gear exclusively! under acceleration ie if you never used engine braking the only wear to come to the front brake would be from 5th gear use.

 

how ever it is also used for 4-3 down shift,

 

but thing about automatic trannys thier holding capability is usually twice of what they can shift into.

 

so a gear that has a mush shift you would typically not shift into that gear under full power. but once into a gear go nuts.

 

No clutch pack is used just for changing a gear like some American transmissions. It is either in one gear, or it disengages that gear ratio and engages another gear ratio, and all the clutches that engage the next gear stay engaged.

 

The many pages dedicated to showing the power flow of each gear ratio through from input shaft to output shaft show the front brake engaged in 5th and 3rd, as well as 1st and 2nd manual mode. It runs in series with that one-way gear so my disclaimer is the following: I dont know if the following sentence is true: Front brake is not actually needed to be engaged except under certain conditions, such as third and fifth gears

 

I have a feeling that a week from now it will make a lot more sense to me, since every time I look at the 5at section of the manual it makes more sense. Now I comprehend all of the power flow diagrams.

 

Then my front brake failed, but so much else failed that you can't pin it on 3rd gear WOT, though that is the most likely suspect in my mind. Unless engine braking is in fact bad for the trans...