SUBE555 Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 We had a dealer appreciation night at the local dealership. They had one GT (auto Limited of course) just in the showroom. I wanted to see how the OB H6 did for power (considering I know what the FXT and STi's both feel like.) Well, my reactions? It was a pooch at anything less than 4000rpm if you ask me. I didn't want to take it too high, maybe it picks up above 4500-5000 where I topped out, but damn that thing didn't feel much faster than my 2.5L N/A '97 Legacy GT. It also doesn't handle much better than my '97 GT with minimal mods, but it is definitely quieter. It felt fairly nimple though. Funny how some people were asking about the GT and 'Human Legacy Encyclopedia' was mentioned by someone who was along with me. :lol: I found it sort of funny how a couple of people thought the Outback would be faster because of the new H6 over the 4-cylinder. They're like it might have more torque, but the H6 should have much better midrange. So, um, in an auto the car normally cruises at 4,000rpms to get good power? My GT won't need that with a stick, or hell, auto for that course would be similar to my stick with the turbo. Okay, enough rant/rave. Moral of the story: H6 doesn't have enough torque for daily driving to me.
Dr. Zevil Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 It also might be how the tranny is setup. Perhaps the shift dynamics are programmed differently to give that "luxury" car feel instead of a sportier quick shift? I really don't know. It's too bad though, there seem to be a lot of complaints about the new H6 around the world. Lots of disappointments.
Drift Monkey Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='racerdave']nimple?[/quote] grap on his speeling.
racerdave Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 I was trying to figure out if he meant "nimble" or "nipple" Or is it a cross for a nipple and a dimple? :D
Dr. Zevil Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='racerdave']nimple?[/quote] :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Holy crap! I just busted out laughing here at work :lol:
SUBE555 Posted June 25, 2004 Author Posted June 25, 2004 Nimble. :lol: No, not nipple. You guys. :lol: But yes Ross, I was fairly disappointed but expecting that almost with the H6. It might be a bit more sporty above the 4500-5000rpm range which I maxed out at, but should you really need to go that high to start seeing performance in a car like that? No. Makes me even happier knowing my GT has a turbo in it. :)
Dr. Zevil Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Nimble. :lol: No, not nipple. You guys. :lol: But yes Ross, I was fairly disappointed but expecting that almost with the H6. It might be a bit more sporty above the 4500-5000rpm range which I maxed out at, but should you really need to go that high to start seeing performance in a car like that? No. Makes me even happier knowing my GT has a turbo in it. :)[/quote] Definitely defeats the purpose of having a 6 cylinder if some fun can't be had at low RPM's. I am sure the engine is strong and is probably designed for more towing applications and off-road grunt, but obviously this is not what the majority of "this" crowd is looking for. The numbers are impressive though. If this powertrain is suppose to be taylored towards the above applications, then why the lower torque rating. It must be a pretty flat curve in this case..
SUBE555 Posted June 25, 2004 Author Posted June 25, 2004 Yeah, some old guy was trying to tell me it's better and the 5EAT should be more sport oriented with the auto. Same guy that told me technically RE92's were summer tires. :lol: I did mention that I am a moderator in a Legacy-oriented forum though. :P I must have been talking way over his head. The salesman asked me if I wanted to drive the GT and I said I hate power seats and I detest autos. :lol: Oh well, they got my take on performance. Give me the stripped down GT thank you and you will have your review. ;) BTW, tried to make out the numbers on the turbo but couldn't find enough identifying numbers. Guess the shroud will have to come off of mine for a look when I get it. ;) Then again, me and Franz will be doing a little grounding work out at my place. ;)
Dr. Zevil Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 When is the grouding work happening? Keep me in the loop. I would love to come up and join you guys! I suspect that grounding couldn't hurt. Although, I wonder how hard it would be to get the beautiful engine cover back on? :lol:
SUBE555 Posted June 25, 2004 Author Posted June 25, 2004 I'll let you know when we do it. I will use either grey or black cabling so it looks fairly integrated, Franz might spice it up a bit. :P Getting the cover back on shouldn't be too much of a problem I'd imagine as well as you keep the wire low enough. But don't worry, you'll be in the loop.
SUBE555 Posted June 25, 2004 Author Posted June 25, 2004 Now you gotta say it like Cartman! :D Got your PM too. :) It's in my directory now. Seems like the interest in the H6 is waning. :lol: It would probably be hellafun in a GC RS though as it would still be under 3000lbs, perhaps still under 2900lbs. I think it only adds less than 50lbs, the original EZ30 added like 35lbs or something over a EJ25 Phase II IIRC. It would need a good stick with it though. I just don't think it'll be that much fun in the package they put it in, it's too VTEC-ish IMO by revving that high for power.
Dr. Zevil Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 Yeah, the only thing that I expect it has going with it is it's torque curve and maybe it's smooth operation. It also gives the moron's who think that a 6 cylinder is better than a 4 cylinder an option so they consider Subaru as a potential buy. Oh well.. I would consider it if I had a boat or something I guess.
WRXTom Posted June 25, 2004 Posted June 25, 2004 The 2.5GT still has some of the Subaru slight lumpiness in power delivery that was also seen by some in the WRX. I can only assume it is the ECU switching between maps (closed loop to open loop fueling etc.). For John Q public who is not familiar with Subaru this might be a negative. I'm sure the H6 is silky smooth which is a priority for many buyers. Tom
SUBE555 Posted June 26, 2004 Author Posted June 26, 2004 Good thing they didn't bring the twin-turbo Legacy then, that valley of death would have been a real turn-off. The problem is peoples lack of understanding with the system. There will ALWAYS be at least some lag with any turbo system despite how good they make it. Reducing it to a minimum is all you can try for. I will still say many people are stuck on the idea of sixes and eights. More isn't always better when others can do the job as well or better for less. The turbo 4's do a rather good job, but the perception of them still isn't solid. Unfortunately. Oh well, can't learn everyone.
SteVTEC Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 bleh....that's disappointing on the H6. I really wish they would have done a 3.5L H6 or something. A 3.0 doesn't have enough torque to really be entertaining in a heavy auto AWD car like that. And these cars need torque, not a rev-happy peaky VTEC-like top-end. As whoever it was mentioned, what's the point of having a 6-cyl if you still have to rev it to 4k or higher just to get some power. Exactly. I'd definitely go with the XT/GT. Thanks for the test drive info. :) Steve
7stars Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 I wonder if they calibrated the AVCS more towards emissions in the low revs. That and possibly extra cats and ECU programming would make for a sluggish H6, as that engine should not be so weak down low.
godwhomismike Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 The peak 250 horsepower comes in at 6600 rpm and the peak 219 lb ft of torque comes in at 4200 rpm That's a bit higher in rpms than the 2.5 turbo, plus the 2.5 turbo has 250 lb ft torque coming in at 3600 rpm and 250 hp coming in at 6000 rpm, so yeah I would expect the 2.5 Turbo to feel a bit faster. - Mike
SUBE555 Posted July 3, 2004 Author Posted July 3, 2004 I remember when we had the which engine performs better debates. :lol: That all looks so funny now. :mrgreen:
Ken S Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 After having test driven a LL Bean OB, I was also a bit underwhelmed by the H6. After adding AVCS and variable lift, I was expecting something a bit different than the outgoing H6. It's a nice and smooth engine, but it didn't seem to perform that much differently than the outgoing model. I agree that Subaru probably has a 6-cylinder engine to address the "more is better" perception. Ken
babyvoxfan Posted July 9, 2004 Posted July 9, 2004 I wanted an H6 Legacy, but after driving the 2.5GT-turbo all the way! :D
Flo4Legacy Posted September 11, 2004 Posted September 11, 2004 So we don't have the choice of a 2.5T here in Germany, I "unfotunately" was forced to get the 3.0R Legacy. I don't have the chance to drive the 2.5T but I am sure it has a lot of power (owned the 1st gen Legacy with the 2.0 DOHC Turbo engine with 200HP :D ). First time I drove the 3.0R Legacy I had mixed emotions. It is true that you have to put the revs over 3500 to get some decent power. Second thing is that the 5EAT is doing quick upshifts and hence the feeling of slow acceleration. But after some weeks of ownership and 6000 kilometers on the clock I have to say that the 3.0R is quite a good and powerful engine. It is verrry smooth and quiet up to 3000 - 4000 rpm. In 5th gear and 190 km/h it revs at 4000 rpm and isn't very loud at all - very good for relaxed driving. The power delivery depends on the revs, but I think this is what Subaru intended. But you can't say that it lacks power! It accelerates strong off-line and picks up speed quickly, maybe just not in the manner of the Turbo. Last week I did a quick start from a traffic light/crossing with an immediate 90° turning. Speed was at 60 km/h IN the turning! Had to go off the throttle because the sidewalk was approaching too fast! :D This engine has it advantages and disadvantages, the 2.5T obviously offers more power at lower rpms but that is the nature of a boosted engine, isn't it? The 3.0R is a good choice for the more "sedated" or "average" folks who want to drive a smooth and quiet car (don't want to say that the 2.5T is bad, please don't misunderstand). Another thing, I also drove the 3.0R Outback and I had the feeling that is was slower than the 3.0R Legacy. For me it is the perfect choice because it makes it easier for me to drive speed limit adequately! With my "old" 2.0 Turbo Legacy I never could stand the urge of full acceleration! The 3.0R allows me a better "correct" driving style. But it is still too good, I find myself driving too fast (means "more than speed limit allows") a lot of times :D Maybe the 2.5 N/A would have been the better choice for me ... :twisted:
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 12, 2004 Posted September 12, 2004 OK, so if the 2.5Turbo is more powerfull than the 3.0 H6, and the 3.0 H6 is more powerful, of course, than the naturally aspirated 2.5 H4; follow me, now: then how powerful would a turbo or twin turbo (smaller turbines for low-lag) H6 be? ~170 to 250hp is about a 48% increase in horsepower. torque likely increases by a similar amount, or more. adding 48% to 250hp, yeilds about 370 horsepower. if changing the compression ratio, making some timing and cam changes, perhaps strengthening the block and cylinder heads, and adding a turbo to a 2.5 liter H4 will leap frog over the 3.0 H6 in terms of power levels; would making similar changes and adding two turbos to the H6 make as much power as a healthy V8? 370hp, with similar torque sounds PLENTY healthy to me. That puts the S4 and M3 to shame, for sure. could be interesting... Turning the turbine side down, impeller side up, it straightens the plumbing out for both exhaust and intake. That would package the whole deal up real nice, with a turbo on each side of the TMIC. Might need a couple of 2.5RS style mesh vents in the hood to alleviate some of that heat, though. Could happen. Question is: would it still be driveable? :) Snow would be interesting with 370hp and lb-ft of torque driving four snow tires. :D
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