redline76 Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I brought my LGT in for warranty work on Monday and had Irvine Subaru put in my Whiteline swaybars that I bought from MPJ. Soren's great to deal with, prices are the chapest I've found and their free shipping is FAST I had the Perrin on my STI but I wanted to try something different. Whiteline has been around forever and I suspect the Aussies drive on roads equally as crappy as here in LA, hence the "reasonably" sized sways (22MM-F, 20MM-R). I think 22MM-R is a bit too big for the Legacy, which is why Perrin saw fit to include a stronger bracket. Anyhoo, Got the car back yesterday, and I'm pleased with the results. Absolutely no noise, no degradation in ride quality, and turn-in is improved. I haven't had a chance to really push the car yet, but it certainly feels tighter and body roll has been cut down by half. As has already been pointed out, this is an improvement, not the final solution for those looking for absolutely flat cornering and razor sharp turn-in. For my purposes, after the Spec-B strut units come in, I'll be done with suspension mods for this car as it is a daily driver before anything else and needs to be comfortable for my work commute. I think for anyone who wants to tighten up their suspension a bit with no real drawbacks should consider these sways. I couldn't rationalize spending an extra $100+ for Cuscos and risk having bars that were too stiff for my purposes. As a side note, I haven't looked under the car yet to see what the bars are set at. If i had to guess, I'd say the front is set stiff and the rear loose as it pushes a touch. -w- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I have the rear only set at the hard setting. Much better turn in. I may switch to the soft setting in the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Weaksauce how Whiteline didn't make the 24mm rear bar...I guess I gotta look elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Weaksauce how Whiteline didn't make the 24mm rear bar...I guess I gotta look elsewhere... Do you really need a 24MM bar? What are you doing with your Legacy? A 24MM rear sway would probably overpower the chassis unless you're a fan of snap oversteer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyTwoEighty Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Did you replace the rear end links while you were at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 dont worry, he has the tires to grip it. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I didn't but I have the AVO endlinks in my trunk in case the stockers snap before I get springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 dont worry, he has the tires to grip it. Keefe Snap oversteer? The wheelbase is too long.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Anyone feel free to chime in here, but if your car is not lowered significantly, endlinks are perhaps the biggest waste of money since strut tower bars. Stock endlinks are a ball-in-socket design, I don't get why an aftermarket unit is any more performance-oriented. I was using stock endlinks on my STI with Perrin sways/ pinks on stock struts and I would abuse that thing at track days. I never flipped the swaybar/bent the endlinks, and I didn't see what benefit the endlinks would do other than prevent this. Autocrossers may have different experiences; most people don't autocross and therfore really don't need endlinks. Drift Monkey, I (loosely) define snap oversteer as a sudden loss of rear traction resulting in a non-correctable oversteer condition. Yes, a 911 will rotate faster than a Legacy due to the shorter wheelbase(and the fact that it has a chunk of weight hanging off it's ass ) but I'm pretty sure that if you go with an oversized rear swaybar on any car (given the rest of the suspension setup is not equally matched) and go too hot into a corner you will bring the rear around quicker than you can catch it. Obviously this is oversimplified, especially so given I don't know your setup and/or what you do with your car. Maybe a 24mm will work for your puposes. For those whose cars are kept pretty much stock, I would worry that they would read your response and immediately think a huge sway in the back is a good idea. Sure, under most normal driving conditions there isn't a problem, but under hard cornering I suspect that there may be some unwelcome surprises, especially in traction-limited situations like rain and/or snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Seems to me like you can't handle the 24 inch bar is all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Seems to me like you can't handle the 24 inch bar is all... Please school me on proper driving technique and chassis dynamics based on your grand total of three years' driving experience and I will bow to your magnificence. Otherwise, I'll assume your crack was meant purely in good spirits and you don't really have a clue what you're talking about. You only get one shot, though, so you better start reading all those books like How to Make Your Car Handle that you bought and subsequently put on a shelf unopened when the big words threw you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 3 years? How old do you think I am and when do you think I started driving? It was in good spirits, but I wouldn't be so quick to judge teh DM's driving abilities and suspension know how. You say you don't want to assume anything because you didn't know what DM's purpose was for the car, but now you've gone as far as to insult the driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Dude, please stop referring to yourself in the third person. Your attempt at self-aggrandizing doesn't make you any more knowledgeable in my book. Now, throw out an insult <in good spirits> and expect a little smackdown in return. I'll remind you that I was polite in the beginning too. I'm still waiting to to hear your rationale for a 24mm rear swaybar. Please also state what your current setup is and it's intended purpose so all of us can benefit from the DM deep pool of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGGTLTD Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Yes, DM is thorughly impressed with himself. I'd also like to have him enlighten us on the 24mm rear sway bar. OIfcourse teh DM probably has better things to do than educate the masses Megan header,Perrin TMIC, TD06-20G,AEM CAI, Lachute DP, Avo BOV, BC Coilovers, Magnaflow catback, Hawk HPS pads, Stoptech lines, Snow WI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 DM will not stop referring to himself in the third person because DM doesn't it think it makes him any less knowledgeable. How DM refers to himself does not take away nor add from his total being. (Plus it annoys people so it's funny! ) It wasn't an insult, it was a joke as indicated by a smiley. After all this time I thought people would figure out how to read these, but no one takes these into consideration for tone. The regulars know what tires I am running. My wheels/tires are not stock and as Keefe mentioned earlier, the tires are well able to hold the changes 24mm bar would bring upon. I do not, and have not endorsed a 24mm rear bar on a stock car, although I was tempted to try it out for kicks . My goal for the car is for more rear rotation, a slight oversteer bias won't really be difficult to correct as my driving background includes extensive time behind the wheel of my former AE86. Coilovers are in my near future, so 24mm wouldn't be quite as necissary then (if I can aquire the rates I want), but if whiteline were to keep the 24/22 adjustable setup, I could have adjusted it according to situation (autox, roadcourse). 20mm is the stock JDM bar size, and many find it is a tad too small for their likings, and knowing my own driving style, too small for my liking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Teh PGT has a bigger bar than all of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 It's all about the girth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Just so we're clear, there's no animosity or ill-will intended here. If a member makes a claim, implied or otherwise, they should back it up. OK, let's see what we have here.... "My wheels/tires are not stock" I guess this is where the list ends for your modified Legacy? I got some distressing news for you, your car is stock for all intents and purposes. "I do not, and have not endorsed a 24mm rear bar on a stock car, although I was tempted to try it out for kicks" Well, at least now we're on the same page. "My goal for the car is for more rear rotation, a slight oversteer bias won't really be difficult to correct as my driving background includes extensive time behind the wheel of my former AE86". I can guarantee you'll get more rear rotation with a 24mm bar. How much you are prepared to handle is the question. You've neglected to mention what you're doing with your car. Daily commute? Sure no problem. Canyon carving? Hmmm.... Emergency or aggresive manoevers in inclement weather? Better start saving money for replacement parts. If you put your car on a road course I'm pretty confident that your extensive experience with a live axle, underpowered Corolla will not make up for a very squirrely rear end that will probably want to swap ends under hard cornering and threshold braking/turn-in with your current setup, i.e. stock. Just a thought, your car is yours to do with what you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 "My wheels/tires are not stock" I guess this is where the list ends for your modified Legacy? I got some distressing news for you, your car is stock for all intents and purposes. Everyone would agree that tires are the #1 mod needed on a stock LGT off the lot, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Just so we're clear, there's no animosity or ill-will intended here. If a member makes a claim, implied or otherwise, they should back it up. OK, let's see what we have here.... "My wheels/tires are not stock" I guess this is where the list ends for your modified Legacy? I got some distressing news for you, your car is stock for all intents and purposes. "I do not, and have not endorsed a 24mm rear bar on a stock car, although I was tempted to try it out for kicks" Well, at least now we're on the same page. "My goal for the car is for more rear rotation, a slight oversteer bias won't really be difficult to correct as my driving background includes extensive time behind the wheel of my former AE86". I can guarantee you'll get more rear rotation with a 24mm bar. How much you are prepared to handle is the question. You've neglected to mention what you're doing with your car. Daily commute? Sure no problem. Canyon carving? Hmmm.... Emergency or aggresive manoevers in inclement weather? Better start saving money for replacement parts. If you put your car on a road course I'm pretty confident that your extensive experience with a live axle, underpowered Corolla will not make up for a very squirrely rear end that will probably want to swap ends under hard cornering and threshold braking/turn-in with your current setup, i.e. stock. Just a thought, your car is yours to do with what you like Ummm...sorry dude, wheels/tires are a modification no matter what you'd like to think. Tires are the single mose effective upgrade for most cars and this car is not an exception. How much am I prepared to handle? Give me a break buddy ....try driving an AE86 in the rain... My car is and will be used for daily commuting and motorsports (autox. roadcourse). Live axle? Underpowered? It's clear to me that you have no idea about the AE86, so you should just quit while you're ahead. I think you seriously underestimate someone you've never seen drive's ability. Ever wonder why my handle is "Drift Monkey?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Yup, I completely agree, the LGT definitely benefits from more performance-oriented rubber. Even R-compounds are subject to the laws of physics, however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Even R-compounds are subject to the laws of physics, however And new trailing links, sway bars, springs and struts make you exempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Do you know about the TK-421 modification? You know it gives you 3 or 4 more quads per channel. Lose the pretention on calling a Corolla GTS an AE86, nobody gives a rat's ass and again, it doesn't demonstrate any real knowledge. Yes, tires are the most effective handling upgrade you can make. Suggesting that good tires will make up for an unbalanced chassis is just plain ignorant. Unless you're coming out here to a track like the Streets of Willow to prove you're worth the mouth you choose to run, I'm left to believe what I read. So far, I haven't read much. Don't make me start on your handle, I'm trying to keep this civil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redline76 Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 And new trailing links, sway bars, springs and struts make you exempt? Balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Do you know about the TK-421 modification? You know it gives you 3 or 4 more quads per channel. Lose the pretention on calling a Corolla GTS an AE86, nobody gives a rat's ass and again, it doesn't demonstrate any real knowledge. Yes, tires are the most effective handling upgrade you can make. Suggesting that good tires will make up for an unbalanced chassis is just plain ignorant. Unless you're coming out here to a track like the Streets of Willow to prove you're worth the mouth you choose to run, I'm left to believe what I read. So far, I haven't read much. Don't make me start on your handle, I'm trying to keep this civil The AE86 is a shining example of where my background originates from. I don't think it is at all pretentious and the fact is even that is not the limit of scope of the RWD cars I have driven. Anyone has has serious seat time behind these types of cars knows exactly what I mean. Unbalance the chassy? Are you sure you know what the RSB does? Yeah sure, me coming all the way to CA to prove a point eh? I'll see what I can do this summer... Go ahead, take shots at the handle...that's about all you have on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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