Driver72 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 For S&G I decided to head over to the local Pontiac dealer and test drive the 2005 GTO...yes the 6.0 LS2 powered version. Sadly, they sold their last 6 manual two days ago so they only had a 4 speed auto on the lot. But what the heck. First, having really never spent much time in one before (jumped in the GTO at the LA Auto Show a couple years ago) I took about 5-10 minutes fumbling around. And I've got to say, the interior is El Cheapo. The A/C controls are straight out of Fisher Price or Mattel...couldn't decided who got the contract. The plastics on the center stack are cheap and creeky too. Obviously at the price point the car is at, they had to penny pinch somewhere...and like some other cars (EVO, 350Z, etc) this is where they did it. Oddly too, where you would expect the window controls to be on the door frame...is the power mirror controls...why? The power window controls are on the center stack between the front seats. Okay other cars do this to, but still not the most intuitive place for them. I wanted to climb into the back seats to see how they felt. Reached for a lever, found it, and gave it a pull. It simply just leans the seat back forward, but still it was impossible to get into the rear. I had to push the power seat button and move the drivers seat all the way forward, just to make it possible to get into the rear. Rear seats are great, getting into and out of them, not so. Wouldn't want to make too many people do this. The only plus here would be if you have a HOT female friend and you're dying to know if she wears panties under that skirt, this would be the way for you to find out...she'd give you a show climbing into and out of the rear seats. Start up the car and that BIG V8 rumbles to life....SWEET!! Put it into gear and drive off. The front doors lock upon driving off, but then I realized they still had a balloon tied to the mirror. So the sales kid goes to hop out but the door is locked. I look over to find a power door lock/unlock button to let him out....nothing! There is NONE! So he had to reach back a bit and push up the door lock lever to let himself out. Oops. Pull out onto the road and accelerate gently because in 200 feet theres a stop sign. The shift from 1st to 2nd is noticeably abrupt. Didn't like that. Leaving the stop sign, again, clunk as it hits 2nd. Turn the corner and time to jam....man does this car MOVE! Get this, I had the traction control ON, and under full throttle, it shift right before redline, and wham, it hits 2nd, and the car kicks out a few inches. Good lord, and again, the TC was ON!!! Even with an automatic this is a 5.0-5.1 second to 60 and 13.4-5 @ 103+ mph car. It would take more than just a Stage 2 LGT manual to run with this AUTO 05 GTO. It's a fast car! Anyway, we come up to a slow (10 mph) bend turning onto a 50 mph posted speed limit 3 lane road, and had a BMW 330i on the cars arse. So I hammer it. 70 mph like THAT...the BMW is like WAY back, I back off to around 45-50 mph but then notice he's trying to catch up. He comes up onto the GTO's rear, then goes to make a move to go around. I hammer the GTO and it down shifts and off we go. In about 2 seconds I was back up to 70-75 and put 2-3 car lengths on him...right away. Again, I back down, he goes by. The engine sounds great, but the NOT as nice as I'd hoped. It's not as smooth and refined as say the 4.2 liter in the Audi S4. The exhaust sounds OK, but to be honest, a bit intrusive. If the Audi S4's exhaust was a symphony orchestra (it is) the GTO's exhaust is a college level band. The GTO's just sounded like it had a couple pennies in the exhaust rattling around and making a raspy clack-clack sound. I'd want to change the exhaust for more of just a deep burble...like...well the Audi S4's!! I see why the 04 GTO didn't sell to well. Interior is too cheap, and not very ergonomically friendly. The engine was nice, but not enough to ask for low $30's from. For 2005 the GTO is selling MUCH better, and it's simply because of the 6.0 LS2 engine. Well the slight exterior upgrades help a bit too. But for a pure muscle car stand point, many people will over look the cheapness inside. Kind of like the last model SVT Mustang. I should of turned the TC off and gave the car hell, but I didn't want to push my luck on a 10 minute test drive, and scare the sales guy 1/2 to death either. Is the car for me? Well the engine is, that's for sure. I'm going to drive the manual in the next couple weeks when they get them in. But, like the WRX when it first came out, and even the STI to a lesser extent, I need a bit nicer interior to come with my performance too. Pontiac...ahem Holden would do well to instead of putting a $34K price tag on the car and selling it for $32K plus a grand in incentives; spend a bit more and upgrade the interior pieces and keep the $34K price, but hold to it...no incentives, not much dealing. It would then be a GREAT performance GT car for the money. But if you don't care about having even Legacy GT levels of interior quality, and want a muscle car for WRX STI price...this car is your ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbreak gt Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Nice review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Loved your funny remarks. Good review. -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXRPWR Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Nice to see I'm not the only LGT driver "thinking about" the GTO. Having 400 hp on tap and still enjoying a factory warranty is darn appealing. I've been contemplating a test drive myself. If I did, it would have to be the manual tranny. Just can't see the appeal of so much git-up-and-go hampered by a 4-sd auto. Perhaps if it had a sweet shifting 5-spd auto I would consider it. But only if it had a decent auto-stick or paddle shifters to offer some driver involvement. Love my LGT with stage 2 power but can't avoid that nagging worry in the back of my miind that any drivetrain problems will be on my nickle. Of course, now that I've been bitten by the mod bug, I'd probably want to order the twin-turbo kit from AVO that fits the Goat. Now that would be sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 The power window controls are on the center stack between the front seats. A tip of the hat no doubt to the F-body GM killed. An LS2 Trans Am would be sitting in my garage tonight, but it is a tragedy that Holden and GM have married. It reminds me of the marriage of Ford and Ghia, which produced some fine Mustangs in the late 70s. Mustangs that everyone to this day wishes they could own. At least there's a guy named Frank who is proud of his. You can view Frank's awsome Mustang Ghia here: http://mustangs.harmonic.org/7078/fs77.html Enjoy, and try not to be too envious. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennebrac Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 is that a Pintang or a Mustinto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Driver - so, you took a car on a test drive and raced it? No wonder I couldn't get a test drive in an STi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA81 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 The only plus here would be if you have a HOT female friend and you're dying to know if she wears panties under that skirt, this would be the way for you to find out...she'd give you a show climbing into and out of the rear seats. :lol: :lol: and a little note about comparing the S4 to the GTO the S4 is a fast lil luxory car which should sound smooth. the GTO is meant to be a muscle car, so the engine noise is going to sound a lot less "smooth and refined" besides, im sure if you payed 14k more for the GTO, the interior would probably be nicer, but i think the engine will sound the same great review, no other pontiac dealers around? we could have read the review for the 6 speed, but wow, didnt know the auto in the GTO was still that fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 i love the GTO. but if i had to buy a car like that, it'd be the CTS-V series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatV8 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 A tip of the hat no doubt to the F-body GM killed. An LS2 Trans Am would be sitting in my garage tonight, but it is a tragedy that Holden and GM have married. -- You do know Holdens been a GM company for a long long time right? I am not sure of exact years, but over 30yrs would still be well in the amount of time they have been together. The F Body didnt die because of the GTO, GM killed it not wanting to develop another platform for the Camaro and Firebird. The GTO is an awesome car (for its time) It is a 7-8 yr old car, what do you expect it to be? Take a look at other 7-8 year old cars then compare them. It is not trying to be a sports car like the Camaro or Firebird (which IMO we're two of the ugliest cars made) it is a true 4 seat coupe, 4 can travel in comfort. $30,000 seems like a fair price to me... Start making a list of $30,000 4 door coupes that actually seat 4 and will run 0-60 in low 5's and ¼ miles in low 13's. Car must be new and I garentee I can count them all on one hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted April 24, 2005 Author Share Posted April 24, 2005 Driver - so, you took a car on a test drive and raced it? No wonder I couldn't get a test drive in an STi. Hell yes! I had a 19 year old sales guy who'd been selling cars for 2 weeks. He was so young the management wouldn't even let him drive the GTO. So he was practically BEGGING me to get on it. He wanted to see how it ran. I obliged him without batting an eyelash. Had I got an old geezer who expected me to baby a 400 hp car on a test drive, I would of gone back to the dealer and said, "can I get a REAL sales person who understands CARS and how certain cars are meant to be driven." I'm also 33. Doubtful they'd let a teenager or early 20's kid take the GTO out on a test drive either! I could go take a test drive of an STI for you too and give you a review if you'd like? J/K By the way, the kid is going to call me in the next week or so when more of the 6 speed manuals come in, I'll drive one of those as well, and give thoughts of the manual tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDarkwinter Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I raced a 04 GTO last night with my friend in his STI out at a nopi event. We got him from a launch, but he slowly pulled on us from a roll. He had headers and full exhaust. The sti had a cat back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graff48 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Regarding getting into the back seat... In the '04 that I test drove, that lever that leans the seat forward is supposed to activate a motor that slides the seat forward. So either GM axed the seat motor for '05 or the one in your car was broken. Even with the seat moved forward, it's still a bit tight getting in the back seat. Nice review, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 You do know Holdens been a GM company for a long long time right? Beat me to it. I think Peter Brock first first came up with the GTO concept by heavily modifing an Opel Monza many years ago (18 at a guess). He dropped one of his "SS" motors in it and hence the first IRS RWD "Holden" was born. I've been out of AUS/NZ loop for at least 10 years but perhaps this is where the GTO has it's roots. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted April 25, 2005 Author Share Posted April 25, 2005 Regarding getting into the back seat... In the '04 that I test drove, that lever that leans the seat forward is supposed to activate a motor that slides the seat forward. So either GM axed the seat motor for '05 or the one in your car was broken. Even with the seat moved forward, it's still a bit tight getting in the back seat. Nice review, BTW. Yeah, the lever didn't move the seat forward, and you are right, even after manually moving the seat all the way forward, you still have to pretzel your body a bit. Hence the panty/skirt comments. Yes, I have no doubt that the 05 GTO is faster than a WRX STI. The STI would get a car length or so jump from a stop, but once the GTO grabs, it's going to reel in the STI, and walk on past. I can't wait to try the manual. I'll try a couple 2nd and 3rd gear rolls. I fully expect to be able to spin the tires in 2nd from just flooring the throttle while in the meat of the power band. Might even get a little spin going to 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 You do know Holdens been a GM company for a long long time right? I am not sure of exact years, but over 30yrs would still be well in the amount of time they have been together. The F Body didnt die because of the GTO, GM killed it not wanting to develop another platform for the Camaro and Firebird. The GTO is an awesome car (for its time) It is a 7-8 yr old car, what do you expect it to be? Take a look at other 7-8 year old cars then compare them. It is not trying to be a sports car like the Camaro or Firebird (which IMO we're two of the ugliest cars made) it is a true 4 seat coupe, 4 can travel in comfort. $30,000 seems like a fair price to me... Start making a list of $30,000 4 door coupes that actually seat 4 and will run 0-60 in low 5's and ¼ miles in low 13's. Car must be new and I garentee I can count them all on one hand. What I know is that Holden is now poisoning classic GM names, like the GTO. When things like this happen, you end up with Mustang Ghia's. Scars that never go away. And this talk of 'look how fast the GTO is compared to other cars...' blah, blah, Pontiac has tried this before. The Bonneville SSEi, my friends. Where is it now? Cars cannot be sold on engine alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 It isn't Holden poisoning GM names, it's GM poisoning GM names! getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Now.....do the same when the Charger SRT-8 comes out. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 It isn't Holden poisoning GM names, it's GM poisoning GM names! ding ding ding!!! we have a winnAr!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatV8 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 What I know is that Holden is now poisoning classic GM names, like the GTO. When things like this happen, you end up with Mustang Ghia's. Scars that never go away. And this talk of 'look how fast the GTO is compared to other cars...' blah, blah, Pontiac has tried this before. The Bonneville SSEi, my friends. Where is it now? Cars cannot be sold on engine alone. I'm sorry, but what you do know is nothing much at all. You know you don't like it, however thats about all... Saying a car is all engine shows how much you have actually read into it... This is a 7-8 year old car. Nearly every magazine that has driven it with the new Mustang have picked the GTO for virtually everything. Why does Mustang win the comparison? Because they think it looks better... So if the GTO is all engine, what the hell is the Mustang then? If people really think about it, the GTO fits exactly what the GTO used to be. If you want to talk about classic names being ruined? Whatever. Chevy and their Monte Carlo and SS Impala FWD sports cars? Everyone is expecting the GTO to be like a Firebird or Camaro, thats the problem. It will NEVER be any of them. It is not a sports car. It is a coupe based off a family sedan (whats that you say? like the Original GTO?) What was the original GTO? A basic looking car, nothing extreme... "Sleeper" would fit it? (except everyone knew what it was) hmm, abit like the current GTO, doesnt stand out? The biggest problem most people have with the GTO is its look! GUESS WHAT?!? It looks butt ugly because of PONTIAC and their dicky body kit. I have not come across very many who doesnt like the look of the REAL sporty version of that car. Which is, the HSV GTO and GTS... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/eatV8/theREALgto.jpg Like said above, it is GM killing GM names. Holden supplied the car because GM asked. GM choose to name it a Pontiac GTO, maybe they shouldnt of named a foreign car GTO. Maybe it should of kept the Monaro tag. I know I would of much rathered seen it badged Monaro and stayed looking like it is suppose too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted April 25, 2005 Author Share Posted April 25, 2005 Okay, let's not turn this into a GTO war here. EatV8, I will say this, the Ford Mustang GT by far has the better quality interior too. Picking between the new Ford Mustang GT and the Pontiac GTO is simply going to come down to what's more important to you. If it's all out performance...no contest the GTO (the 05 ONLY) is the way to go. The new MGT is just as fast (and maybe a tick faster up to 90 ish mph) as the 04 GTO too. But if having a FAST car that looks retro cool, will turn more heads, and has a little nicer interior, more trunk space and not too mention at least $5K less is important to you, the Mustang GT is the easy choice. The GTO has the edge in rear seat space, but is so difficult getting anyone back there, really only "kids" will or should be put in the back of either. But in the Mustang, even with an 8 year old in the back, the driver will have to put the front seat forward a bit compromising comfortable driving positions. Personally, I'm a fan of power and speed, the GTO wins there. But I'm also a fan of nice interiors and style. The Mustang wins the nicer interior arena (by a step), and wins in the style category, but a leap. If the Mustang GT had the GTO's engine, and sold for say $29-31K, I'd own the car tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 This is a 7-8 year old car. I'm sorry. Is this relevent? Should I cut it some slack because of this? Nearly every magazine that has driven it with the new Mustang have picked the GTO for virtually everything. Why does Mustang win the comparison? Because they think it looks better... So if the GTO is all engine, what the hell is the Mustang then? A better example of all-around good traits. Strong motor (not as strong as the LS2, of course, but not weak, either) attractive design and a continuing tradition. If people really think about it, the GTO fits exactly what the GTO used to be. Not at the current price tag. If you want to talk about classic names being ruined? Whatever. Chevy and their Monte Carlo and SS Impala FWD sports cars? I completely agree. The GTO is not the only name being bashed by GM. Everyone is expecting the GTO to be like a Firebird or Camaro, thats the problem. A problem that arises when thousands of enthusiasts get let down, and then Pontiac drops the next gen F-body motor in a new coupe. It will NEVER be any of them. It is not a sports car. It is a coupe based off a family sedan (whats that you say? like the Original GTO?) What was the original GTO? A basic looking car, nothing extreme... "Sleeper" would fit it? (except everyone knew what it was) hmm, abit like the current GTO, doesnt stand out? You have now touched on another real problem. Family sedans with large V8s went down the tubes with the gas crisis of the early 70s. Even before we got hammered this year with $2.50 gas, most buyers of family sedans did not look for a Trans Am powered family sedan. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the GTO has no base engine, right? It only comes now as a 6.0 litre. It is clear this car was brought out to be Pontiac's new flagship. The name, the motor, it was all supposed to be so grand. Kind of like the maiden voyage of Titanic. The biggest problem most people have with the GTO is its look! GUESS WHAT?!? It looks butt ugly because of PONTIAC and their dicky body kit. I have not come across very many who doesnt like the look of the REAL sporty version of that car. Which is, the HSV GTO and GTS... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/eatV8/theREALgto.jpg Like said above, it is GM killing GM names. Holden supplied the car because GM asked. GM choose to name it a Pontiac GTO, maybe they shouldnt of named a foreign car GTO. Maybe it should of kept the Monaro tag. I know I would of much rathered seen it badged Monaro and stayed looking like it is suppose too. If they had done that, they wouldn't have dropped the LS2 in there. The LS2 is in there because they want you to see this thing as a GTO. -- Driver72, thanks for the review. Sorry about the tennis match, but I cannot restrain my dark side when it comes to this particular subject. Look forward to hearing your impressions after driving the F-body/Vette gearboxed (6-speed) version, as you said you have planned to do in the near future. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 I think pontiac can keep it's GTO. The only GTO I would buy, had I the cash, would be a Ferrari 288GTO. (The original 250GTO is too rare and irreplaceable for me to want. I like 60's Jags and Astons better, stylewise, as well.) I have to admire what Jon Delorean did with the original 60's GM GTO, as a platform, putting a big block in a mid-size value leader, to make a real sleepin' screamer. Too bad he ripped off the Ferrari name for it. Oh, well, past is past. They also squabbled with Triumph Motorcycle over the name Bonneville. The problems with the new car, as I see it are three-fold. Too expesive on the sticker price. (Inflation adjusted, a 68 Pontiac GTO would be something like 18-25k, someone posted those figures in another thread about this car.) I could see it selling for 28-31k. For 35k, the features and styling are let downs. The interior (of almost all GM/Ford/Chryslers) are too tactile-deficient and of slightly to grossly inferior quality. Big check against when looking at the sticker price. Third is the styling. Regardless of what badge it wears, Holden/Vauxhaul/Opel/Pontiac, It was designed more than 8 years ago, during the period when the "jelly-bean" look was starting to wane, and people were getting tired of oval ford tauruses, and the like. (and when ford started going angular, as a result.) The style just looks dated. The bottom edge of the side windows bows downward, and almost all of the other lines on the car are curvy. Not in a Porsche/organic sort of way, but in an amorphous less-agressive sort of way. There is a reason that design shops are getting away from All-curve designs, other than Porsche or Ferrari, who have half a century or more doing those shapes correctly. (and even they are not infallible.) More power from more capacity is not an answer to those problems. $2.50 gas is not helping, but probably only a small consideration against the GTO, and most other large V8 vehicles and SUV/Trucks. It just goes to my point that Gas prices affect other things, not how many gallons you buy, or how far you drive. It makes people hold off buying new cars. It affects their decisions whether they should buy car A with a 6 liter, or car b with a 4.6 liter, or car C with a 3.5 liter engine. Maybe they buy a year or two used instead. Maybe they buy the car, but hold off on the remodeling project on the house. But in a car, where the styling might have some on the fence, things like interior and gas consumption, and a higher sticker price than some competition might be enough to tip the scales against. Just depends on how the balance scale is stacked. and BTW, I think that GM is butchering some of it's name plates, but they have been doing that since the 1980s, and now their decisions have come home to roost on their bottom line, among other fiscal issues out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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