PGT Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Yea, sue.. great idea.. I'm attaching the picture of the clutch system from the FACTORY MANUAL.. I'm at a loss as to where this supposed "CDV" is.. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Section 5 - 'Operating Cylinder' is where the culprit is. Here is a pic: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/ferrule.jpg It's a flow control valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Turboman... give it a rest! Now that you have started perhaps the 10th thread on the topic of the clutch, I think we all know you hate the clutch. If it truly bothers you that much SELL THE CAR. While this is an open forum in which you can bitch and moan as much as you please, I for one am tired of seeing it. I have an early production car, and have never had a problem with the clutch hanging up. I will readily admit that the clutch is numb feeling, but I'm now used to it, and it doesn't give me any trouble at all. I drive about 45-50K miles a year for my job, and have probably accumulated over 500,000 miles in my driving lifetime, with the vast majority in manual tranny cars. I'd expect that you have similar driving experience. If I can learn the LGT clutch after spending a lot of times driving other MT cars, why are you having so much difficulty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turboman Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Turboman... give it a rest! Now that you have started perhaps the 10th thread on the topic of the clutch, I think we all know you hate the clutch. If it truly bothers you that much SELL THE CAR. While this is an open forum in which you can bitch and moan as much as you please, I for one am tired of seeing it. I have an early production car, and have never had a problem with the clutch hanging up. I will readily admit that the clutch is numb feeling, but I'm now used to it, and it doesn't give me any trouble at all. I drive about 45-50K miles a year for my job, and have probably accumulated over 500,000 miles in my driving lifetime, with the vast majority in manual tranny cars. I'd expect that you have similar driving experience. If I can learn the LGT clutch after spending a lot of times driving other MT cars, why are you having so much difficulty? Great idea. You guys handle, or don't handle, it yourself. Why'cha talk about, "I saw a white LGT on Hy 42 yesterday!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA81 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 if anyone is having problems with their Legacy MT, i'll happily purchase it from you for one whole US dollar just PM me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I learned on this clutch and I think it's just fine. It does occasionally give me a suprise "I don't feel like engaging untill the motor revs up to redline" But that happens maybe once every 1500 miles and usually only when I'm screwing around or trying something new. I can deal with that though. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outback XT Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 From my point of view, this is not bitching about the car. I love it! Let me say it again in case it was not clear: I love it! It is about sharing information about a problem that some of us are experiencing with the goal being to fix it - whether ourselves or by SOA. I hope that the good information that is found in this thread is not lost on mere bitching. And yes it would be nice to make one sticky for this instead of 10 different ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy_y_tu Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Come on guys give Turboman a break would ya. I know , I've read all his threads and I can understand people's annoyance to some degree. But since not one of us has driven his car why not give him the benefit of the doubt. Hell, his car could be truly operating a whole lot worse than anynone's else on this board. If you're tired of reading his threads and don't have anything constructive to offer just STHU and move on to another thread. Man ...I'm more tired of hearing other people bitching about Turboman. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domain Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 In my view you can't have a "few" bad clutches coming off the assembly line. They all should be the same. (based on 20 years in automotive engineering and production supervision) If there is anything different it's in the transporting to the dealership (piggy-back trucking, or driving from another dealer) and if it used as a "demo" for customers. Mine had 175 miles on the odometer. Who knows if it was abused. You obviously have more experience then me in this respect seeing as I live on the computer engineering side of things. Anyway, yes automation has eliminated a number of problems over the years, however this automation ( in whatever form ) is still designed / programmed / and ultimately built by humans... so the potential for error still readily exists. Seeing that the members of this forum didn't recieve their vehicles in direct sucession directly off the assembly line, I don't think its a stretch to think that *some* of the vehicles may have left the line with some sort of problem... but again thats not my area of expertise, and I have no direct proof either way. Very insightful comment about, "The only difference being between the pedal and the knee". However, you have to understand that this many people are NOT out of their heads. Probably only 1 in 25 Legacy owners read this forum. For every complaint published there's another unknown number of people with the same problem. Readers of this forum are the "Cream of the Crop", the "enthusiasts". I gave a possiblity of what the problem was... I didn't specifically say that anyone was "out of their head". As you stated, the members of this forum are not a good gauge of the average Legacy owner... they are most likely all individuals that for whatever reason happened upon this board while looking for some sort of specific information. The problem here is that in general, people with problems are more likely to be searching for a solution than those who are happy with their vehicle. Paired with the fact that unhappy individuals tend to be more openly vocal, and you end up with a large number of unhappy individuals existing in a very concentrated area. This sets a bad precedent... making any problem appear much more widespread than it really is.... At any rate, i'm sorry for those that are experience problems with their clutch... I hope the cause of this problem can be determined and resolved in a timely manner. However, I for one an completely ecstatic about my Legacy GT... it is by far the more interesting, exciting, and trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. My only regret is that my poor Porsche hasn't even been started since buying this car... it probably hates me now ----- Domain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 How tall are you Kevin? I think this may be an issue which plays a role. The clutch engages far up on the travel....it might be caused by those of us who are taller having a harder time getting to the engage point cleanly. Just a thought, as it seems so random. 5'10", Dan. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eamiller Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Section 5 - 'Operating Cylinder' is where the culprit is. Here is a pic: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/ferrule.jpg It's a flow control valve Except that isn't our slave cylinder.. If you guys are having problems with the pedal, perhaps you should bleed the system.. Or replace the fluid.. Beyond that, there's not much to a hydraulic clutch system, it's just fluid operating on a piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 That's from the STi - ours is almost identical, from looking at the schematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohmer1 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Turboman - and sell the car. If you seriously think it's unsafe and you keep driving it because you want to, you can't sue for ANYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 You give me hope Turboman Keep the posts coming. I reckon you and I have the same issues with our car that many don't have. The CDV (if present) shouldn't cause the pedel to come up half way and stay there!!! this is clearly a defect that is affecting some (clearly not all) cars. Others on this board can chirp all 4 wheels on launch -- on my car I can't even do this in the wet (spin, not chirp) due to the clutch defect (pedel not fully returning on hard launch). The stench of course just makes things worse. Give Turboman a break!!!!!! venting about things that are clearly a problem is fine. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 I think, Joe, the only contention people have about Turboman is his implication that everyone's clutch is problematic, and that people who suggest otherwise aren't being entirely truthful. Clearly, not every clutch is the same. This was true of the WRX, also, FWIW. Weirdness, frankly, that clutch situation. I know three other Legacy GT owners, and none have any clutch issues, either. I don't have any problem with Turboman seeking a solution for his difficulties. I fear that posting here is not the way to go about it, however. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 I had the clutch stink and CDV problem for the record, but after a recent 1600 mile road trip and an hour in stop-n-go on I-95, the stink seems to have disappeared (after 10K miles). I haven't run into the CDV engagement since the early days, so I chalk that one up to becoming familiar with the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 gtguy: Thanks for clarifying. As for me, I'm working on a letter to my local dealership (CC'ing SOA) describing in as much detail what my problems are. Hopefully they will just change the clutch (from a 'good' batch) and my issues will go away. My fear is that they will say it's driver error and that every launch should be under 1k revs and that I should just let the minivans leave me in the dust for the first 100 yards Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedMoreBoost Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Whoever said this is the best factory clutch out there ever is absolutely insane. The clutch provides almost no feedback at all and it is too light. It feels like your not even using your left foot most the time which can get you in trouble. I totally agree, Previous clutches in my past cars felt progressively harder as the pedal is pushed down right until it starts to engage then lightens up when the pedal is almost to the floor. Almost springy feeling. To be honest, I have a hard time driving this car and I've owned 2 other manual cars in the last 9 years. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Legacy and newer cars have hydraulic clutches versus a cable in older cars. I like the old school feel myself. As far as CDV, I've only had this happen once and I have 20,000 miles on my car. FYI, I was trying to launch VERY FAST so it was understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADirtyLegacy Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 just wondering outloud here, but wouldn't this "issue" come into affect for those people who auto-x, assuming you do a decent launch from the line? i can't imagine anyone would luanch at an auto-x at 1k. Kenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 There are two distinct issues. Clutch stink (in stop and go traffic, and also when trying to get started up an incline, mostly in reverse) and the CDV kicking in sending the revs up and the car goes nowhere. I can live with the CDV, as I know it's there and can adjust my driving. If it bugs me enough, i will have it removed. My clutch stink seems to have gone away, but it was problematic for the first 8-9K miles. Nothing more embarassing than havinng to apologize to your VP because your brand new cars stinks in traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Kenda: It's definitely an AutoX issue!!!! I've seem the WRX-STIs launch hard at many AutoX events without suffering this type of problem (and I haven't noticed the stench either). I was hoping to use this car for AutoX, but will have to continue using my old car (95 Probe GT with 200k miles on the ORIGINAL clutch) There is basically NO issue if you baby the car -- but that's not the point of buying a car like this. Acutally the times I do baby the car (and enjoy 27 MPG) I am very impressed with everything about it -- but as soon as I start pushing it a little, the clutch issues remind me there is a defect (with my car anyway). Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 There is basically NO issue if you baby the car -- Not true. I rarely drive hard, beyond flooring it once in motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Patagonian: I really really hope the problem will go away after 8-9k miles. Are you saying you can launch at about 3k and get no stench, but you had it before?? Is the pedal coming up halfway on fast launch the CDV??? I though this device just slowed down the release, not stop it half way??? If it does this by design, then I'm confussed. Thanks, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 The CDV kicks in to protect the transmission. I have only experienced it once, on a somewhat hard launch where I rode the clutch too much. The motor revs and the pedal is out, but the car goes nowhere. I never experience the stink from hard launches, only normal driving. It seems to have gone away like I said......I certainly would have gotten it a few weeks ago when it took me one hour to move 1 mile on I-95 in NC when a chicken truck overturned. I was a bit surprised and relieved that all I smelled was chickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Ok, so it sounds like I may have an isolated issue, since my "CDV like" experience left the pedal halfway out (as if something were stuck), but it returned to normal once the pedal was pushed down and let out again. I wish I could repeat this at the dealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4_Maniac Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 What ever it is..it's never botherd this LGT owner in 14k miles of driving a 5-MT. NUFF SAID B4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.