crazyhorse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 And you want to pay several thousand under invoice for that custom spec'd car that they should deliver to you, etc? If you want a premium experience, expect to pay a premium. You don't see the highline guys giving cars away You truly will always get what you pay for in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If the market price is negotiable, you would be stupid not to negotiate. If it's not negotiable - that is a different buying experience. My relationship is not with the sales guy - he doesn't get anything done at the dealer. Most dealers are set up so that you don't deal with the salesperson post-sale - therefore, a cut and run mentality ensues. Believe me - I worked in the business long enough to know there are nine snakes for every quality salesperson at a dealer. When I was in commissioned sales, we had a sign over the door: We offer: Price, Service and Quality - Choose Two I spend most of my day in the Telecom world on the customer service end - fixing and repairing relationships where the sales person overpromised and underdelivered. I guess my standards of 'service' are a bit higher than what most dealers offer. I asked my dealer to match another's written offer - read that again. I said 'match', not beat the offer. I wanted to keep my business local to me, but not pay a premium over the competition for doing so. What extra service did I get? Absolutely none. It should be a simple transaction - I will buy the car at this prce - yes or no. They said yes, then made the experience difficult (not a single instance at this dealer or at the ones in my area). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohenfive Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 interesting dialogue....'evil' car dealer on one side, 'cheap bugger' customer on the other....the reality is that cars are commodities and that this tension between buyer and seller is appropriate in a free market economy such as we have. the dealer doesn't have to sell lgt limited's for $5k below msrp but some don't mind and there's nothing wrong with some customers spending their time trying to find the best deals at any dealership they choose. my wife needs a car to replace her saab 9-5 which has 101k miles on it. we're going to look at the subi lgt limited but she's loath to buy one given how lousy our local subie/mazda dealership is. luckily we'll have a few choices as the bay area has a bunch of dealerships, but since we won't likely be servicing the vehicle at the closest dealer we're just going to go on the net and get the best price. it's a bummer but it's the dealer's choice to be lousy to deal with, not mine. in a perfect world where we liked the local dealer i would probably be willing to spend slightly (and i mean slightly) higher to buy from them, but not if the dealer stinks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 'cheap bugger' - LOL. Some have called me crazy for spending $32K on a MINI. Cheap? crazyhorse - would you say $27115 for a LGT-L 5sp wagon with rubber mats, cargo mat, and armrest extension was a steal or a fair deal (bought Nov. 2 - price is pre-T/T/T/P)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisted Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 i say fair deal.... and not a steal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrod Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Yea not a bad deal for Nov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohenfive Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 sounds good for november, seems like they are about $1000 cheaper now with the money floating around...anyone know if the bay area dealers are dealing like other parts of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 That price was $975 below invoice, which was the going rate on Fitzmall.com at the time (a short 30 minute drive away). The local dealer was PO'ed about it, but once you agree to it, don't drag the process down by being difficult. Price should be the last objection to overcome when closing a sale. I came to them with exactly what I wanted and the price - the deal should be done once they agree and have the car through PDI. They tried to renegotiate the price, saying they were losing money....even going so far as to stage a call from another dealer wanting the car and telling them 'no', trying to make me believe I was getting the deal of the century. I ran into the Sales Mgr at the Costco the next night - he was like a different person entirely. Almost normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Well to correct one thing... Holdback on the Subaru's is 3% not 4%.. so that makes a difference for sure. You're talking a $32k so that's a nothing deal and kinda silly unless they have some help from Subaru. I'd say it's a steal for the time without the extra money and the sales manager probably got an earful for agreeing. I'd hardly call myself evil... I just think that the market can and should support the dealerships at least making some dinero. We have a doc fee that I absolutely and 100% cannot stand for but it's something the owner insists on. Face it... we're not all "Auto Malls" with multi makes to make up for the money lost, etc. They can afford to lose money on Subarus because they'll make it up with other makes of cars. Not every dealership is like that by any means. I might be a few hundred bucks away from them in price but I like to think I'm worth the extra $1/mo it costs to have me as your salesperson. I do business with guys that are entusiasts because they're good people and I trust them. If it costs me a bit more to buy a part from someone I know, I'm OK with that because I'm supporting someone that helps the community. It's silly to me to pass up dealing with someone that is in the community to deal with a faceless and nameless person to whom you're nothing but a number on the dry erase board that just got erased today. Notice I'm not saying people should be paying sticker... but I don't think dealerships should have to lose money to sell cars. Those of you that already own Legacy GT's should be pissed off... imagine what that does to your resale value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohenfive Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I'd hardly call myself evil... i was just being 'cute'...the buyer didn't like being called a 'cheap bugger' either... but at the end of the day it's a relatively free market where buyers and sellers come together and agree on terms (price, service, etc)...the market sets the price, not an individual dealer or consumer. so hopefully when my wife and i go out shopping for lgt-l auto wagons soon we can find the $27k locally.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Oh about the 06 models... I have no idea when the 06 legacy's hit. Some of you may have seen on NASIOC that I posted up the new model codes that they accidently left on the locator system OOPS! So there are a few new codes in there that I dunno what they're for.... They're talking Sept for the new imprezas so they may hold off until then simply to put the spotlight on the new Forester and Tribeca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I was kidding I joke about being a sleezy slimy car salesman all the time. The job even came with hair plugs for my chest and lots of fake gold jewelry!! lol Here in charlotte the market varies quite a bit. I typically sell cars on the internet for invoice - any incentives. A GOOD month here at this dealership is like 12 cars... so at $100/car you can imagine how tough it would be to support yourself if you gave every car away. (Thank god for my salary!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 12 cars? Here in NoVA they do 30+ cars/month at the slow dealerships. no wonder you go the extra mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Per person... We typically do 20-30 subarus a month... The dealership as a whole will average 85-100 cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mele63 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Crazyhorse, I found three base GT's in my area. MSRP ranges between $28,092 and $28,150. How do I find the invoce cost? I went to Edmund's but the numbers aren't matching. Is 24K a good price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 msnauto.com is fairly accurate with the invoice price last I checked. I believe the GT LTD wagon I sold yesterday was a 3300 discount off msrp to get to 1000 under. It's a percentage thing though so you can't use that discount across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 So holdback has come down from 4% to 3%? The price sheets that I have from last November all have HB at 4%. And these are Subaru of America, Inc., 2005 Model Year Legacy and Outback price sheets that list the dealer costs, floor plan allowance, gas allowance and holdback as well as dest & delivery. I know that prices have gone up slightly but didn't realize that SOA had slipped holdback back to 3% which was what it used to be on other models. BTW - how does your dealership do total volume-wise, compared to other dealerships in your state? SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sorry for the delay in getting back to ya... Had something come up.. Anyways... we're second in the state with about 20-30 subies a month. SER is a bit behind the rest of the US in total volume. The #1 dealership in the state can hit 40+ some months because they're up in the mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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