John M Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 I'll throw a wrench in the works: Plan C -- Hyundai Sonata More features, more room, more power, more mpg, more warranty, same money. DIY comparison chart Since you're shopping base models I must assume you aren't a brand snob. Go test drive one. It costs you nothing and you just may be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgtgirl06 Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Subaru = AWD and not having to spend the $ on winter tires. Not to mention if you don't get another set of rims now you will be spending the money on mounting and balancing 2 times a year. Toyota = FWD and now having to deal with the things mentioned above. I am a die hard Subaru fan. I was in horrible accident a couple years ago with my first LGT. I thank God every day that I was driving a VERY safe car. I was told I was very lucky to be alive. I will never buy anything other than a Subaru. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 The number of people who think AWD is an excuse not to buy winter rubber always surprises me. AWD does not add grip. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 I was not aware that you could go without snow tires with AWD. In fact there is a province in Canada, Quebec where its mandatory to have snow tires and it applies equally to AWD cars. @John M Sonata works out to be as expensive as the Suby. And for that money I will take the saftey of the Suby for the power of the Huyndai direct injection engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 I spent a lot of time with the Dealer today tying to lower his price, but he is barely comming up to 3000 of the Camry. So the difference is not $2000, its really $3000. Damn. It seems the Suby dealers have had no time shifting Legacys this year. Next year, with the new Sonata, it may be a different story. Does not help me now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I run all season tires on my car in all seasons... but AWD does not help you stop it only helps you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 If the OP is near the US border how about buying in the US and exporting back to Canada. I read here on the board of many people doing that. X --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 If the OP is near the US border how about buying in the US and exporting back to Canada. I read here on the board of many people doing that. X with the price difference you might even be able to get a legacy GT in the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Subaru = AWD and not having to spend the $ on winter tires. Not to mention if you don't get another set of rims now you will be spending the money on mounting and balancing 2 times a year. Umm, what? With all due respect, there's a reason winter rally racers call all-season tires "no-season" tires. In the last winter rally I was in, guess who was the first car in the snow bank (like 3 turns into the rally)? A wrx/sti with all-season tires. As someone else said: AWD does not change the stopping power of our car at all - snow tires do. If you have significant snowfall, you need snow tires, IMHO (unless you're my sister who drives her Jetta on all-seasons in northern alberta, despite the rest of the family telling her she needs them). Steel wheels are pretty cheap.. but you will still need a 2nd set of pressure sensors.. Original poster - you sound like my dad - just wanting a decent family car that won't let him down, etc. Go for the Camry or the Accord. Seriously - especially with the recent Toyota issues, they'll be easier on warranty. Look around the forums here and see how often Subaru has been denying warranties on turbos that are obviously defective, etc. I would expect the Subaru dealer to offer WORSE warranty service than a Honda or Toyota dealer, based on my experience/other's experience here.. Honda/Toyota are often one-car dealerships, while Subaru is often the red-headed stepchild third or fourth brand sold by a dealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 So yeah, running a rally is one thing. I disagree though I run Pirelli Pzero Nero all season tires on my spec.b and it does fine. not saying there arent times i have to drive slower that if i was running winters and summers but not that often and I dont have/have the need to spend cash on another set of rims/tires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 He's looking for a family car not a Rally X beast. No snow tires are needed. "This is an adventure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 He's looking for a family car not a Rally X beast. No snow tires are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgtgirl06 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 ^^ Yes agreed. I ran the stock all seasons for a couple years. Living in NY we get crappy winters here. With a 30mi commute everyday the car was awesome in the snow with the AS tires. Try having to stop behind someone making a L or R turn on a hill in the snow and having to go again in a Camry. Good luck. It's happen to me numerous times. The Subie doesn't give you any lip and proceeds. I don't know if you are looking to finance or pay for the car all together but the extra $50 bucks or so a month is well worth it. IMO. Either way good luck in your decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I'll take Camry on winter tires over AWD with non-winter tires any (winter) day. AWD does not help stop. Some people will just have to learn the need for winter tires the hard way. And it's not really about the snow. It's about the ice and general cold temperature, when all-season tires literally turn to rock and loose grip on the freeway. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AluminumMonster Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Some people will just have to learn the need for winter tires the hard way. And it's not really about the snow. It's about the ice and general cold temperature, when all-season tires literally turn to rock and loose grip on the freeway. I've never had all season tires "literally" turn to rock. If that ever happens I'll just kick a hole in the floor and maneuver Flintstone style. I think everyone agrees that AWD does nothing for stopping. I have had problems getting up my driveway, and starting from a stop on a hill, with which AWD drive will help. If you leave plenty of room and don't drive like a moron when it's crappy out, all seasons are probably good enough. I'll probably get winter tires because I tend toward being overly cautious, but I don't feel that it's necessary. Back to the OP: I cross-shopped the Camry (and some others). I can't really quantify why I preferred about the Legacy; I just liked it better. Go with what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNH Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Steel wheels are pretty cheap.. but you will still need a 2nd set of pressure sensors.. Why? If you skip the sensors (which I will be doing this winter) you'll get the idiot light but everything else will be fine. Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them -Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 I am a bit paranoid on the tiers issue, having lost control of my rear wheels once. My wife has thrown a wrench into the dollar side of the equation. The Fusion S is selling for 5500 less than the Legacy! Dammit! Its got better IIHS rating than the Camry. I am impressed by the candid opinions here though about the reliability aspect of Camry vs. Legacy. Thanks for keeping it real all The warranty issues on the AWD that I read here, are a bit worrying. Does Suby actually offer 0% or cash incentives like the 2000 or 0% bin offered by Toyota, Honda, Mazda, VW? I am thinking maybe their incentives in May may improve and make them more price competitive. But I am also worried that they may not have many 2010s. Another question: since 2010 is a first year for this design, should one expect more issues? I did try contacting a couple of dealers in the US and they are telling me that they will only have ones for me at the earliest by Sept and it will be 2011s, and it will be at MSRP. I need to car in sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidWombat Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Subaru does offer 0% financing and rebates, but generally its only on previous model years. They may offer something on 2010 Legacies in a month or two. I bought my 2009 LGT in Sept. and got both a rebate and 0%. You should definitely look at the Fusion, its been getting excellent reviews, and Ford reliability seems to have significantly improved lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-WDC Spec B Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I agree about the fusion. its pretty cool. and avaible in AWD as well. sync is pretty nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Hmm.. yes Fusion is interesting indeed. It seems to depreciate faster though. So I reckon I would get about $2000 less if I was to sell my fusion in 3-5 years. I am also glad to hear that Subaru does offer 0% sometimes. I know the new 2011s are comming in soon, and they may announce better deals in June. But given the seeming low inventories, and that the car is newly redesigned for 2010 and not many things are added for 2011, there may be a chance that they do not give any more incentives, and the dealer sells out of 2010s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 The warranty issues on the AWD that I read here, are a bit worrying. Does Suby actually offer 0% or cash incentives like the 2000 or 0% bin offered by Toyota, Honda, Mazda, VW? I am thinking maybe their incentives in May may improve and make them more price competitive. But I am also worried that they may not have many 2010s. Another question: since 2010 is a first year for this design, should one expect more issues? Actually Subaru is very good about their warranty coverage. If you count how many people have complained on here about warranty issues, it's really not that many. In addition, they don't tell the whole story about why they are denied. For example, if they never do the proper maintenance (ie do not change oil at proper intervals...so going 8k miles instead of 3750) and the turbo goes, it probably won't be covered....that's not a defect in the turbo but rather a person not caring for their car. I'm not saying this is the case for all people, but some of these people on here haven't said important parts of the story as to why they were denied. In addition to all this, you will find warranty issues with every company. Most people are not going to talk about the time they went into a dealership and got something covered on a warranty. Lastly, people here on the boards are going to be your toughest critics. That's because they are the biggest enthusiasts. As far as financing goes, Subaru does not offer a 0% currently. They don't need to. They have been selling so well that there's no reason to do this. 0% is merely an incentive designed to get people in the door. In addition, it's not always as good as it appears. Read this article about it. The biggest things to note, are that not everyone will qualify for it and it is usually designed for people with the BEST credit. Even then, a dealership may not give it to you because they can't make money off of bumping the rate. Also, in most cases(not all), 0% is for short term finacing (ie 24-36 months) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 25, 2010 Author Share Posted May 25, 2010 Agree that financing is not always straight forward. But the Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Honda are also offering cash back of $2000. Not a lot of complication there As I have noted earlier in this thread its obvious that Legacy is selling well this year, and therefore the dealers and Subaru do not want to give any deals. Its good to hear that the Suby warranty is pretty good. I would be mostly concerned by the AWD warranty. Any experience on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 There is little concern in that regard since the drivetrain is rock solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Its good to hear that the Suby warranty is pretty good. I would be mostly concerned by the AWD warranty. Any experience on that? I've not really seen too many people come in with issues on the AWD-part. Most people, if they're gonna have issues will have them on the tranny. Usually people who have tranny issues are wrx/stis and those are due to the drive not knowing how to drive an all-wheel drive vehicle (ie dumping the clutch to do burnouts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 25, 2010 Author Share Posted May 25, 2010 I will have to get CVT, because my wife will drive as well. The brochure says, that it is a new CVT, I am not guessing that there will be a lot of experience of folks on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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